Ballast almost flipped the tractor, really need some help!

[schweizer]

I have to strongly disagree with Marcus...If you understand the math

Wait a minute, let me make sure I wasn't misunderstood: ***of course he needs ballast, and a lot of it.*** I have a degree in Physics, so I completely understand his situation.

On my tractor, I have the back tires filled and I always use the backhoe for ballast. I just gave an example of how with the back tires filled and with the box blade attached, one can still get light on the back even on a heavier tractor like mine. If I wasn't in 4wd and knew when to drop the FEL to the ground, I could have had a bad ride down the hill or end up upside-down. I'm just saying there's a lot of emphasis on ballast, but there are some other things to think of. Having front wheels locked in gear requires thinking about the physics of the situation.

Marcus

(P.S. "Heavier tractor" is relative -- I also have an older Case 580 which is 2x the weight of my Kioti.)

 

[NHmitch]

I am very glad to see that you are allright, that is a split second scare. I am glad to see that you had your ROPS up, and from the sounds of it, you had your seatbelt on, or you may not be typing this. I would try to dig uphill, and have your tires loaded if they are not already. It sounds like there is good advice on here, however you will just have to take it easy, and find your comfort zone. Your incident is why I have tried to explain to people how quickly you can overturn, and why ROPS with your seatbelt on are so important. Anyways, glad that you are safe, and best of luck the rest of your project!

 

[NHmitch]

There is another thread ongoing about loading tires. It sounds like the best bet is best bet is Rim Guard. You should be able to find it somewhere near you. It weights in about the same as calcium chloride, but without the potential damage to your rims. I would not hesitate in getting your rear tires loaded. The other thread:http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/john-deere-owning-operating/246520-fill-tires-not.html

Since you are in Australia, I am not sure what is available near you, or what regulations there are in NSW, but I would try these guys, I bet they can load your tires for you:http://www.midwaysales.com.au/

These are the repair centers near you http://www.midwaysales.com.au/service-mechanics-locator/

 

[crazyal]

I'm sure you've gotten plenty of advice but I will offer this. I try to keep my hand on the fel lever whenever I'm in a place that I think could be tippy. If I feel like it could tip I immediately drop the bucket to the ground. Even if going to roll on your side the front bucket on the ground will help keep you from going over.

 

[boggen]

looking at pictures, first thing that came to mind. was bucket was put down, then tractor was put into reverse, and the bucket was lowered more on purpose to cause rear end of tractor to come off the ground.

next thought was, bucket was "to high" and hit a bump, and caused tractor to begin tetter tottoring to point there was more weight on front vs back of tractor and away she went face flat into the dirt.

as far as bucket size, all loaders on tractors i have seen, normally the bucket is a couple inches wider than width of tires. exception a light duty mulch bucket.

might as well add it, because first thing i thought, just like so many others is rear end weight. FEL (front end loaders) sticks a good amount of weight out in front of the tractor. something heavy from a rotatory cutter, to heavy duty box blade, perhaps even a rear scrapper blade, to a back hoe, to 3pt hitch ballast/weight box.

==============
as far as the FEL itself. some others hit on it. but you really do need to try and keep that FEL down low to the ground. when you move it all the way into the up position. you can quickly tip over to one side, or like what you have already done.

only time i have ever needed to raise the FEL bucket high, was to help move some stuff from ground, to top of roof. or i had to raise bucket so i could turn around, and not hit the fence posts. but as soon as i was done the FEL went right back to the ground, and hovers a couple inches above the ground. there is another exception, when i had some chains on a couple things. to lift them and put into back of a pickup truck. but all of these doings have been on flat even ground. and going a snail speed of movement. to reduce chance of hitting a bump or wheel going down into a rut and causing me and tractor to tip over.

also try to go up and down hills. and try not to go across a hill horizontally. to easy to hit a small rut or hole (hole from a varment, to a dog, to your own previous tire tracts) which could send tractor over on its side.

as others have said, do not go 100 MPH with pedal to the metal attitude. take it easy, take it slow. and over time build up speed as you get practice / experience.

 

[AGGIE00]

Ah yes, but he wasn't lifting anything with the loader. He just didn't appreciate how heavy that clamshell was. I run around all the time with an empty loader and no ballast.

Me too, although I remove the bucket whenever I don't need it to get rid of weight and help visibility. I wonder if he was backing up the hill using 4wd and that caused it to tip? I've heard 4wd referenced as a must for braking which I agree with, but a novice needs to know that backing up an incline with weight on the front can change the situation from rear wheel spin to what we have pictured here. The answer is to lower the bucket to nearly touching the ground. I have even drug the bucket a little to avoid tipping.

 

[RoyJackson]

I think the manuals numbers are actually overkill. My ballast is only about 650 lbs and that is about half of Bobcats recommended number. But then again I'm on flat ground. I know if I had the OP's bucket and no ballast, I would be hanging the rear tires in the air going over minor dips.

I don't think the manual weights are "overkill", but the manuals do suggest tailoring the ballast to the project at hand.
My ballast (sand, in a ballast box) weighs about the same as yours, and I have added extra sand (in bags for "easy" removal) as required.

 

[IndyIan]

My land has lots of similar slopes and I've spent maybe 40 hours moving dirt on slopes like the one that tipped up the tractor.
My setup is:
Loaded(rimguard) R1's set at the maximum width.
Normal bucket.
Low range always.
4wd always on slopes.
1100lb box blade.


You can use the box blade to push dirt in reverse down a slope very safely compared to using the loader, and its low usable ballast. I'd also get a normal light bucket for everyday use and put on the 4 in 1 when its needed.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Me too, although I remove the bucket whenever I don't need it to get rid of weight and help visibility. I wonder if he was backing up the hill using 4wd and that caused it to tip? I've heard 4wd referenced as a must for braking which I agree with, but a novice needs to know that backing up an incline with weight on the front can change the situation from rear wheel spin to what we have pictured here. The answer is to lower the bucket to nearly touching the ground. I have even drug the bucket a little to avoid tipping.

We will see what he posts but this is about the only conditions I could see that would cause that. Looks like he just popped a wheelie.

 

[B58Hustler]

I have another question from the pictures, related to the attachment of the strap to pull the tractor back. On one hand attaching to the high point helps the leverage angle, but in this case could pulling on the attachment rather than down at the drawbar area cause a problem at the weakest link(the top link itself or the top link mount on the tranny case?) Just asking...

 

[NHmitch]

I have another question from the pictures, related to the attachment of the strap to pull the tractor back. On one hand attaching to the high point helps the leverage angle, but in this case could pulling on the attachment rather than down at the drawbar area cause a problem at the weakest link(the top link itself or the top link mount on the tranny case?) Just asking...

I agree, but I don't think that I would climb under the box blade, or the tractor while it was balancing in the air. If it did come down prematurely while he was hooking up the tow strap to the draw bar , it may have crushed the guy, but in a normal circumstance, I would definitely agree.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ating/247178-knew-front-end-loader-would.html

If one wants to how to do it look at the photo in the first post on this thread. This should prevent wheelie popping going forward or reverse.:thumbsup:

 

[thinggy42]

Me too, although I remove the bucket whenever I don't need it to get rid of weight and help visibility. I wonder if he was backing up the hill using 4wd and that caused it to tip? I've heard 4wd referenced as a must for braking which I agree with, but a novice needs to know that backing up an incline with weight on the front can change the situation from rear wheel spin to what we have pictured here. The answer is to lower the bucket to nearly touching the ground. I have even drug the bucket a little to avoid tipping.

I was going down the slope with an empty bucket, it was the first day i had the bucket actually! The path was cut with the rear grader blade that is 5 ft so as wide as the tractor so it just fit. The bucket was 6ft so i raised it because it didnt fit, i must have raised it too much because as the tractor was going down it started to fall forwards.

Also on another note the tow operator had a tractor of his own and got on the deere and attempted to push it down with the bucket, it couldnt do it?
I cant even raise the front two wheels using the bucket on flat ground. Is this an issue?

 

[AGGIE00]

I have another question from the pictures, related to the attachment of the strap to pull the tractor back. On one hand attaching to the high point helps the leverage angle, but in this case could pulling on the attachment rather than down at the drawbar area cause a problem at the weakest link(the top link itself or the top link mount on the tranny case?) Just asking...

Or....push the little lever forward and the rear will set back down on the ground.

 

[thinggy42]

I have another question from the pictures, related to the attachment of the strap to pull the tractor back. On one hand attaching to the high point helps the leverage angle, but in this case could pulling on the attachment rather than down at the drawbar area cause a problem at the weakest link(the top link itself or the top link mount on the tranny case?) Just asking...

I wasnt brave enough to crawl under it ( or below it on the hill ) Once it had stopped i took the eat belt off and jumped! Did not want the tractor to roll onto me.

 

[Cantoo]

Don't take any advice from whoever helped you get it back on 4 wheels. All you had to do was move the fel controls and it would have eased back down. You bucket was way too high, going too fast, stopped too quick while going downhill. Normally 3 strikes and you are out, you got lucky. Our neighbour did the same thing only he made 2 more mistakes, he had the rops lowered and no seatbelt on, we buried him. Sealtbelt wouldn't have helped anyway, steering wheel took care of him.
I have an L35 and if I take the backhoe off, pop it into reverse and give it a shot, it will lift the rear tires. Hit a bump while driving ahead in 2 wd will cause it to stop moving cause the rear wheels are off the ground. Get rid of that 4 way.

 

[phiferpharm]

I was going down the slope with an empty bucket, it was the first day i had the bucket actually! The path was cut with the rear grader blade that is 5 ft so as wide as the tractor so it just fit. The bucket was 6ft so i raised it because it didnt fit, i must have raised it too much because as the tractor was going down it started to fall forwards.

Also on another note the tow operator had a tractor of his own and got on the deere and attempted to push it down with the bucket, it couldnt do it?
I cant even raise the front two wheels using the bucket on flat ground. Is this an issue?

That's not right. Are you sure you didn't push the stick into float position, or is the FEL incorrectly set up? It seems as though the back end should have dropped like a rock when you pushed the stick down.

 

[banjodunn]

G'day Thingy glad you are ok, as others have said fill the rear tyres. We always have tubes fitted and then just fill with good clean water down here ( Ararat Vic) you do not need rim guard or any of the anti freezes that they need in the US as we dont get cold enough to worry about freezing. Your dealer should have said to you about filling the rear tyres and you should ask him to come out and do it for free of course and you won't send him the dry cleaning bill!!


Jon

 

[NHmitch]

John,

Thats good advice. The reason I was recommending the rim guard, or an equivalent is because it weights about 4 times as much as water, so it will give you more balast, but I am not sure about the availability in AU?

 

[rmk700]

I was going down the slope with an empty bucket, it was the first day i had the bucket actually! The path was cut with the rear grader blade that is 5 ft so as wide as the tractor so it just fit. The bucket was 6ft so i raised it because it didnt fit, i must have raised it too much because as the tractor was going down it started to fall forwards.

Also on another note the tow operator had a tractor of his own and got on the deere and attempted to push it down with the bucket, it couldnt do it?
I cant even raise the front two wheels using the bucket on flat ground. Is this an issue?

Downward pressure is going to lower the back wheels. The loader is what kept it from going endover. Thank goodness you did'nt kick into float position.

When you get a chance (on flat ground) practice the heck out of using the FEL. Understand exactly how it works. You can apply down pressure and easily lift the front tires off the ground. Doing this will give you an idea just how powerful FEL down pressure is.