My Scratch-Start TIG Setup

[ChuckE2009]

Goodmorning everyone!!

So, I just thought I'd show off my scratch-start setup after someone started a thread about it, and someone else wanted to see my videos... Didn't wanna hi-jack that thread...

Anyway, I run it off my Hobart Stickmate LX, the AC/DC one. Pretty much, you just throw the switch to DC- clamp the stinger lead to the power block on the TIG lead, and start welding once you open up the Argon, and grind your tungsten of course.

I've done a lot with it, actually just lastnight I tig'd up an exhaust for a buddys tractor (Massey 1135, big machine).

I like it because it is simple, theres not a lot to go wrong with it...

And I dislike it because of having to scratch start. Its not something I do everyday, and so Im usually out of practice with it. Plus, its like stick welding in the sense that the lower the amps, the harder it can be to get going. When I tig between about 80 and 160 amps, there aren't any issues, but below that it can be a trick. And the lack of adjustability sucks, although once you have the machine set you can tig all day without any worries. Just wait a few seconds for the metal to heat up at the beginning, then shove more filler rod in when it gets too hot around the end of the weld, but it can be done.

Someday, when I can afford it, I'll buy a "real" tig machine. If you can afford it, I'd say go that route, but if not, scratch start is a good way to get your feet wet.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g72rCd8J9oA]Scratch Start Tig - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPKstOZSZug]Scratch Start Tig Setup Explained - YouTube[/ame]

Anyway, I just thought I'd share some videos on the subject. One video is about me setting up my setup for the first time, and the second is a video someone requested after seeing the first one, its just a better look at the parts and pieces that make up my tig rig. Hope everyone has a good week

 

[deereman75]

Man your making me want to get one of these for my stickweld 250. I am sure I will after I get a mig.

 

[yomax4]

When you are limited to scratch start, Try having a piece of flat copper on hand to scratch your start on. Then move off onto your weld. It will really help with the start and reduce tungsten contamination. It's not really needed with an inverter bucause they tend to turn down lower and start easier that a transformer.

 

[BlacknTan]

I've watched some of your youtube videos Chuck. Great stuff!

It's refreshing to see a young man with such a good attitude and thirst for knowledge. You're bound to succeed at whatever you choose to do in life. And you've helped to kindle the fire for me to try lift arc tig.

 

[undercut]

Great video! I just may want to try TIG. I'm a bit concerned about the start up costs involved with the argon related equipment (currently using stick). What size tank would you recommend and how many "hours" should I expect to get out of it? Sorry, very unqualified questions but any answer will help me get my head wrapped around what it might cost.

 

[k0ua]

Great video! I just may want to try TIG. I'm a bit concerned about the start up costs involved with the argon related equipment (currently using stick). What size tank would you recommend and how many "hours" should I expect to get out of it? Sorry, very unqualified questions but any answer will help me get my head wrapped around what it might cost.

I paid 210 for the tank it is a 125 cubic foot. (local welding supplier)(it was filled) 26 for the regulator (ebay) 90 something for the torch (northern tool) It came with 3 alumina nozzles and collets and the 10MM dinse connector fit my welder already so I did not need any adapter, and bought some more tungstens, about $20 or so.. The regulator alows you to set your flow rate. Mininum I use is about 12 Cubic foot an hour, and I rarely go over 15 cubic foot an hour. so lets use that as a norm. So about 8 hours of welding time per tank. Maybe a little less, depends on how quick you remember to turn the valve on the torch off. Around here it is about $50 to refill an 125 CuFt. tank. So 7 dollars an hour of arc time. I am still on my first 1/16 inch tungsten, so not too much there. Oh by the way if you forget to turn on the Argon, you will know it real fast (what the heck is that big nasty sparky, carbony arc thing that just happened) But if it is turned on, you get this nice quite little smooth spatterless arc to start melting some steel.. It is very neat, and you have so much control of what is going on with the arc and the puddle.

James K0UA

 

[undercut]

I paid 210 for the tank it is a 125 cubic foot. (local welding supplier)(it was filled) 26 for the regulator (ebay) 90 something for the torch (northern tool) It came with 3 alumina nozzles and collets and the 10MM dinse connector fit my welder already so I did not need any adapter, and bought some more tungstens, about $20 or so.. The regulator alows you to set your flow rate. Mininum I use is about 12 Cubic foot an hour, and I rarely go over 15 cubic foot an hour. so lets use that as a norm. So about 8 hours of welding time per tank. Maybe a little less, depends on how quick you remember to turn the valve on the torch off. Around here it is about $50 to refill an 125 CuFt. tank. So 7 dollars an hour of arc time. I am still on my first 1/16 inch tungsten, so not too much there. Oh by the way if you forget to turn on the Argon, you will know it real fast (what the heck is that big nasty sparky, carbony arc thing that just happened) But if it is turned on, you get this nice quite little smooth spatterless arc to start melting some steel.. It is very neat, and you have so much control of what is going on with the arc and the puddle.

James K0UA

Trying to get my wallet past the cost of the tank. It would probably be a different matter if I wasn't just starting. I'll try scoping out what my costs would be in my area. Thanks for the info. Much for me to ponder ....

 

[Ken45101]

Trying to get my wallet past the cost of the tank. It would probably be a different matter if I wasn't just starting. I'll try scoping out what my costs would be in my area. Thanks for the info. Much for me to ponder ....

You could lease a tank to start out although that usually requires a refundable deposit. With the one LWS I checked, buying a tank has about a 3 year breakeven point.

It seems like TIG could be fun to learn.... I have to remind myself that I don't have to learn everything right away, LOL.

Ken

 

[Gary Fowler]

If you are thinking of buying a tank, you may consider checking the refill prices. The larger tank may not be a lot more $$$ for refill than the small one. The labor cost to fill may cost as much as the gas for small tanks. Helium can also be used which was the original gas used, thus the oldtimers called it Heli-Arc welding rather than TIG. I havent priced either gas but you have to remember that Helium molecule is so small that it will migrate thru the steel tank between the grain structure and over time, the tank will be empty without cracking a valve on it. Same thing with Hydrogen which is a problem with using hydrogen for fuel in your car.

Did you know that you can weld aluminum with your scratch start TIG rig if you use Helium on your gun. It has to be super clean and is a real bear the get started due to the carbon that is deposited when you first strike the arc and burn off the oxidized aluminum but once you get it going it welds pretty good. POOR BOY ALUMINUM WELDING.

 

[undercut]

You could lease a tank to start out although that usually requires a refundable deposit. With the one LWS I checked, buying a tank has about a 3 year breakeven point.

It seems like TIG could be fun to learn.... I have to remind myself that I don't have to learn everything right away, LOL.

Ken

Need to figure out how to multi-quote in this forum ....

I hear you, Ken. Sometimes the brain gets way ahead of the body, the watch and in my case, the pocketbook!

 

[undercut]

If you are thinking of buying a tank, you may consider checking the refill prices. The larger tank may not be a lot more $$$ for refill than the small one. The labor cost to fill may cost as much as the gas for small tanks. Helium can also be used which was the original gas used, thus the oldtimers called it Heli-Arc welding rather than TIG. I havent priced either gas but you have to remember that Helium molecule is so small that it will migrate thru the steel tank between the grain structure and over time, the tank will be empty without cracking a valve on it. Same thing with Hydrogen which is a problem with using hydrogen for fuel in your car.

Did you know that you can weld aluminum with your scratch start TIG rig if you use Helium on your gun. It has to be super clean and is a real bear the get started due to the carbon that is deposited when you first strike the arc and burn off the oxidized aluminum but once you get it going it welds pretty good. POOR BOY ALUMINUM WELDING.

Great info. More for me to research! Would you need to boost the flow for helium? I'm thinking the helium would rise almost immediately away from the pool so you would need to keep the flow up??

 

[Shield Arc]

Would you need to boost the flow for helium? I'm thinking the helium would rise almost immediately away from the pool so you would need to keep the flow up??

Yes you do, it's been awhile now, but seems as I went up to around 30-cfh.

Here is a weld I did with helium. Another note, you can almost cut your amps in half when welding with helium.

 

[undercut]

Yes you do, it's been awhile now, but seems as I went up to around 30-cfh.

Here is a weld I did with helium. Another note, you can almost cut your amps in half when welding with helium.

Wow, nice bead. How clean did you need to prep the plates and did you need to clean the filler rod at all?

Ever stick weld aluminum? (Sorry, hijacking this thread - I know ....) don't want to take anything away from ChuckE2009 but I figure we're kinda on this subject ....

 

[Shield Arc]

Wow, nice bead. How clean did you need to prep the plates and did you need to clean the filler rod at all?

Ever stick weld aluminum? (Sorry, hijacking this thread - I know ....) don't want to take anything away from ChuckE2009 but I figure we're kinda on this subject ....

Normally I just use a stainless steel brush.
When ever you work with aluminum, you want to have a stainless steel brush. And write on it, ALUMINUM ONLY!
I keep all my Tig filler rod in PVC tubes. If for some reason I have any trouble welding aluminum after brushing the base material, then I run the filler rod through a Scotch-Brite pad. But that doesn't happen very often.

The last time I tried aluminum stick welding must have been in the early 1980's. Personally I don't like it very much.

I know Chuck very well, he could care less! As long as we talk about welding and tools!:thumbsup:

 

[k0ua]

I have never tried the aluminum stick rods, but I saw a demo of it on you tube or somewhere, and the guy said it gave good results.. but the demo weld was horrible..Just horrible. and lots of smoke. I was not impressed.

James K0UA

 

[Shield Arc]

I have never tried the aluminum stick rods, but I saw a demo of it on you tube or somewhere, and the guy said it gave good results.. but the demo weld was horrible..Just horrible. and lots of smoke. I was not impressed.

James K0UA

It seems I remember reading where better weldors than I have posted you have to maintain a longer arc than with normal welding rod. Almost spraying it on the base material. And I've seen better weldors than I use it, they didn't have much better luck than me.
I have a nice Tig machine, so I'm not interested in using aluminum stick rod at all.

 

[undercut]

I think I saw the same youtube video. The one I saw had a guy who was using rods that he sells. Stuck the rods multiple times, couldn't establish or maintain an arc for any reasonable amount of time. The rod got shorter but he didn't have any technique other than moving the rod as it burned down.

I suspect I will be getting an entry level inverter stick machine (for various reasons I won't repeat here). It will either scratch or lift TIG but won't TIG aluminum so if I even want to contemplate aluminum, it will either be stick or nothing .... Unless I try the helium DC TIG tip that Gary Fowler mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[undercut]

If you are thinking of buying a tank, you may consider checking the refill prices. The larger tank may not be a lot more $$$ for refill than the small one. The labor cost to fill may cost as much as the gas for small tanks.

I checked one location and difference between tank refills for larger tanks is pretty close. Thanks for the tip!

 

[yomax4]

Aluminum Stick Welding rods work awesome as a Brazing rod as well. But..If you want to run them on an arc welder, You need to pre heat the material to 500 degrees. I turn on Acetylene and smoke the area with the black smoke. Then turn on oxygen and carefully heat until the black goes away..That is 500 degrees. Then take the stick and you Have To run it at a 90 degree angle to the work or it will blow out on you and look like crap. It will be consumed very fast so you need a quick travel speed.. Try a couple to get the hang of it and you will like the outcome. Rember though..Aluminum Stick Rods make Very nice brazing rods for Aluminum.

 

[undercut]

Aluminum Stick Welding rods work awesome as a Brazing rod as well. But..If you want to run them on an arc welder, You need to pre heat the material to 500 degrees. I turn on Acetylene and smoke the area with the black smoke. Then turn on oxygen and carefully heat until the black goes away..That is 500 degrees. Then take the stick and you Have To run it at a 90 degree angle to the work or it will blow out on you and look like crap. It will be consumed very fast so you need a quick travel speed.. Try a couple to get the hang of it and you will like the outcome. Rember though..Aluminum Stick Rods make Very nice brazing rods for Aluminum.

Thanks for the tip about the smoke. Haven't heard of that before. So the aluminum electrodes make good brazing rods?? Is it because of the flux coating?