Ford 1700 injector pump timing

[jones6780]

Yes you can remove the valve spring but it is tricky. There is another procedure to time the pump using a dial indicator on the piston. It might work on top of a valve.
To remove the valve spring make sure the #1 piston is up on compression stroke. This will put the timing marks in the right place for the dial indicator. Remove the rocker and use the bolt hole as a pivot point to attach a bar with a hole to access the keeper and long enough for leverage. With the keeper off you need to make sure the oil seal is tight enough to prevent the valve falling into the cylinder or add something to prevent it from falling in. Once it is timed just replace everything. On a gas engine we would use a spark plug with an air coupling to pump up the cylinder with air and hold the valve up.

Russell

 

[JC-jetro]

It looks like I am going to be taking it apart to set the timing. It is off much more than you can set externally When I remove the hyd pump do I need to drain the fluid first?

Thanks!

If you raise the front wheel on stand you can avoid draining the hyd fluid. Eye ball the oil level (I think seven inches) on dipstick, put an external mark and eye ball that with the hyd pimp inlet. Even on flat surface a gallon or so and you''ll be lower that the pump inlet so no siphonage by gravity will happen.

JC,

 

[JC-jetro]

Yes you can remove the valve spring but it is tricky. There is another procedure to time the pump using a dial indicator on the piston. It might work on top of a valve.
To remove the valve spring make sure the #1 piston is up on compression stroke. This will put the timing marks in the right place for the dial indicator. Remove the rocker and use the bolt hole as a pivot point to attach a bar with a hole to access the keeper and long enough for leverage. With the keeper off you need to make sure the oil seal is tight enough to prevent the valve falling into the cylinder or add something to prevent it from falling in. Once it is timed just replace everything. On a gas engine we would use a spark plug with an air coupling to pump up the cylinder with air and hold the valve up.

Russell

Nice !! that ole "air pressure in the piston to keep the valve up" trick

Can he use the glow plug port to pump up air in to the piston? When you overhauled your engine, did you notice a keway or something to maintain same crankshaft pulley position on the crankshaft? could it be off by 180 degrees.

JC,

 

[53GMC]

Thanks for the fast replies! One more question. Air is coming out of the injector pump, even while I had the injector lines removed I could see a few VARY small air bubbles come out with the fuel while turning the engine over by hand. Should I be concerned about this while the pump is easy to remove, or should I just go ahead And time the pump and see how it does first?

Thanks.

 

[jones6780]

If air is coming out then it is getting in somehow. Start at the tank and work your way down to the pump and check everything. If you take out the spring and delivery valve and the pump is in the correct position there will be gravity fed free flowing fuel to purge all air. If you still see air something is wrong.

As for pulley timing there is only one key-way. If the timing cover was removed by the previous owner, then I would take it off and check everything.
Russell

 

[53GMC]

Is any "air" acceptable coming out of the injector pump? I have good fuel flow going to the pump. The timing appears to be advanced 60-70 degrees! I do not know how it was running with the timing advanced as much as it is was.

 

[JC-jetro]

Is any "air" acceptable coming out of the injector pump? I have good fuel flow going to the pump. The timing appears to be advanced 60-70 degrees! I do not know how it was running with the timing advanced as much as it is was.

No air is acceptable as air it is very compressible vs liq fuel. air ends up being compressed and decompressed causing pulsation and no fluid flow. It is very strange for timing to be off as you claim and still running. If the crankshaft pulley is keyed to crankshaft can"t see it being out 180 degrees. What I'm saying it might not be off and it only appears to be due where the lines on the pulley is. Are you sure the piston #1 is on TDC on comprehension cycle rather than exhaust? (suck, squeeze, bang and blow) cycle. There is got to be a small gap between rocker arm and the valve stem end when TDC on compression cycle meaning both valves are completely closed.



JC,

 

[53GMC]

No air is acceptable as air it is very compressible vs liq fuel. air ends up being compressed and decompressed causing pulsation and no fluid flow. It is very strange for timing to be off as you claim and still running. If the crankshaft pulley is keyed to crankshaft can"t see it being out 180 degrees. What I'm saying it might not be off and it only appears to be due where the lines on the pulley is. Are you sure the piston #1 is on TDC on comprehension cycle rather than exhaust? (suck, squeeze, bang and blow) cycle. There is got to be a small gap between rocker arm and the valve stem end when TDC on compression cycle meaning both valves are completely closed.



JC,

Yes, it is on the compression stroke. I used a milwaukee inspection scope to look through the injector port so I could see the piston. I marked the pulley at TDC and then marked where the fuel injects (with the injector lines off). And then double checked it. I don't know how it was running ether.

Should I have my pump rebuilt and does anyone have an idea of what it would cost to have one fixed?

 

[JC-jetro]

Yes, it is on the compression stroke. I used a milwaukee inspection scope to look through the injector port so I could see the piston. I marked the pulley at TDC and then marked where the fuel injects (with the injector lines off). And then double checked it. I don't know how it was running ether.

Should I have my pump rebuilt and does anyone have an idea of what it would cost to have one fixed?

You have not established having a bad pump. Many people would be more than glad at your risk to take it apart and put back together.TDC appears to be the same position of the piston, how do you figure you're in compression stroke?

JC,

 

[53GMC]

You have not established having a bad pump. Many people would be more than glad at your risk to take it apart and put back together.TDC appears to be the same position of the piston, how do you figure you're in compression stroke?

JC,

I have the valve cover off and I would hold my finger over the hole, when I felt the compression and both valves are closed I put the inspection scope in the hole and brought the piston to TDC.

 

[jones6780]

If the original owner took the pump off to have the injector pump checked out, then he removed the timing gear cover to get to the gear on the end of the pump. If you don't know what you have, remove the timing gear cover and double check the timing then bleed the fuel. NO AIR in lines or pump. If you have eliminated all other air sources then the last option is the pump and the cover is off so it can be removed. If you have eliminated the air then you have access and can verify the correct timing.
The gear that attaches to the pump has 3 slotted holes for adjustment. If that gear was not installed correctly it could give you 120 deg of error, but I could not imagine the engine running that far out.
Russell

 

[JC-jetro]

all the gears, timing, crankshaft, idler fuel pump all have matching marker that need to be lined up can't see the valve timing being off ,start and not damage anything. it might be the 3 bolts that you were talking about Russel.

JC,

 

[JC-jetro]

I have the valve cover off and I would hold my finger over the hole, when I felt the compression and both valves are closed I put the inspection scope in the hole and brought the piston to TDC.

Okay , you feel that compression both in compression and exhaust cycle , as long as both valves were closed indicates compression cycle and you visually inspected the TDC.

JC,

 

[53GMC]

I am going to take it apart this weekend to find out what is going on. I know the timing is way off.

Thanks!

 

[53GMC]

I finally got some time to work on the tractor. The injector Pump timing marks were way off. So I timed it and put it back together. The engine pulley is splined on my tractor so I reset it with the with timing marks then checked it and it appeared to be right. Now I still don't have any power

I noticed the head gasket is leaking some air out, hopefully the head bolts are loose. Also the radiator is building a lot of pressure. I am trying to locate a compression tester but I havent had any luck so far.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Harbor freight has a cheap diesel compression tester that will screw in to the glow plug holes.
Bill

 

[jones6780]

If the compression is leaking into the radiator then either the head/block is cracked or the head gasket is leaking. Use a compression tester and check then Re-torque the head and check again. Compare the difference.

Russell

 

[53GMC]

I checked the head bolts and tightened them a little, they were already tight enough to hold. I torqued it down to 110 ft lb. Does anyone know if the "cheap" harbor fright compression tester has a adapter that will fit my tractor?

Thanks.

 

[53GMC]

My tractor is very loud right now, it has the loud diesel knock at idle. If I turn the glow plugs on while it is running it痴 quieter and has more black smoke it痴 under a load. It also had a little more power but not much. Could a head gasket cause this?

 

[jones6780]

Sounds like the injector timing is still off. I would not use glow plugs when running. Is compression leaking into radiator still?