I got an electrician at work to hook me up with his supplier. I'll let them figure it out. I gave them my specs and I will not go above 6 gauge but if they tell me 10 gauge is sufficient then I'll tell them I want 8 gauge. It'll be 8 or 6 and at a savings of $30-40 I may as well end up getting the 6.
Extension Cord for welder
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Dr Dave
Platinum Member
Have you priced a breaker, wire and outlet for your garage? This may be your best option. It is a pain to use wife's oven outlet, door cracked, dirt, noise and bugs get in 
Been there and done that! I've found it to be cheaper to do it right the first time.
Been there and done that! I've found it to be cheaper to do it right the first time.KWentling
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So here is what the NEC book said in 1995. "Each welder shall have an overcurrent protection (breaker) rated or set at not more than 200% of the rated primary current of the welder" For conductors: "Conductors that supply one or more welders shall be protected by an overcurrent device rated or set at not more than 200% of the conductor rating"
The way I read that is your cord would need to be able to carry 1/2 of the 50 amp breaker rating or 25 amps, which would allow you to use a 10 gauge cord.
Kim
The way I read that is your cord would need to be able to carry 1/2 of the 50 amp breaker rating or 25 amps, which would allow you to use a 10 gauge cord.
Kim
Have you priced a breaker, wire and outlet for your garage? This may be your best option. It is a pain to use wife's oven outlet, door cracked, dirt, noise and bugs get in
I've thought about it but don't plan on living in this house too much longer. My main breaker panel cannot support additional breakers. It has 6 double pole breakers. It is also on the opposite side of the house from the garage.
Yes, I'd rather do it right but I am not willing to sink $1000 into it and let it go to waste when I move in a year (I hope).
Kim: Both of those statements appear to be for the breaker and imply not to use bigger than a 100amp breaker in the case of a 50 amp rated load.
PILOON
Super Star Member
My welder is rated at 230 amps and I use an extension made of #10 household heater wire. (red cable).
Face it, you probably won't use greater than 5/16 rods an generally only 1/8. and if you look at the current settings to use those rods and convert back to the amperage draw at 220volts you will find that #10 gauge covers your needs.
Now to err on the safe side I would ONLY use #10 as an extension and not permanently wired in the walls.
As in all cases be sure that the breaker is properly rated for the wire used as that is your protection.
With the setup described, a buddy once split his excavator bucket and repaired it using my rig. Probably welded for a solid hour non stop using 5/32 rod and the extension never even felt warm!
Face it, you probably won't use greater than 5/16 rods an generally only 1/8. and if you look at the current settings to use those rods and convert back to the amperage draw at 220volts you will find that #10 gauge covers your needs.
Now to err on the safe side I would ONLY use #10 as an extension and not permanently wired in the walls.
As in all cases be sure that the breaker is properly rated for the wire used as that is your protection.
With the setup described, a buddy once split his excavator bucket and repaired it using my rig. Probably welded for a solid hour non stop using 5/32 rod and the extension never even felt warm!
PILOON
Super Star Member
Maybe best explained this way.
It is all in the watts drawn. Watts is voltage x amperage. A given rod uses X amps at the welder secondary and we know the amps range required for any given rod.
Most welders run in the 30/40 volts secondary X the current needed for a specific rod.
Convert that to watts and calculate what you need at 220 and you'll find that if you run 1/8 rods you can weld all day on a #10 extension. (well perhaps not 500 ft long due to voltage drop, but 20-30 ft should be no problem)
Just be sure that the proper rated fuse/breaker is used.
One downside might be that it be a bit more difficult to strike the ark at first if there is some voltage drop.
Shucks I have welded using 3/32 rod on a 24 volt 25 amp transformer. Tricky to do but the welds held.
It is all in the watts drawn. Watts is voltage x amperage. A given rod uses X amps at the welder secondary and we know the amps range required for any given rod.
Most welders run in the 30/40 volts secondary X the current needed for a specific rod.
Convert that to watts and calculate what you need at 220 and you'll find that if you run 1/8 rods you can weld all day on a #10 extension. (well perhaps not 500 ft long due to voltage drop, but 20-30 ft should be no problem)
Just be sure that the proper rated fuse/breaker is used.
One downside might be that it be a bit more difficult to strike the ark at first if there is some voltage drop.
Shucks I have welded using 3/32 rod on a 24 volt 25 amp transformer. Tricky to do but the welds held.
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KennyG
Super Member
This is something that gets recycled here periodically, so I'll just weigh in with my own experience. I have a Lincoln 180 wire welder. I've run it hard enough from time to time that it has shut down from exceeding the duty cycle. I have it on a 30 amp circuit with #10 wiring and have never tripped a breaker. I made up a 50 foot extension cord with #10 motor wire I bought cheap off Ebay and added ends. When the welder shut down, I checked the cord and could not detect any increased temperature at all. It would have to be a pretty big welder before I would worry about using my #10 extension cord. The NEC wiring standards established for wire running in enclosed spaces with constant full load where the heat builds up.
KWentling
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Thats right. But it says to not use a breaker rated at more than 200% of the conductors ampacity. If the ampacity of a 10 gauge wire is 30 amps, 200% of that is 60amps, so 10 gauge should be OK for the 50 amp breaker he has. Am I reading that wrong?
Kim
Qapla
Veteran Member
All of this sounds interesting and, at times, confusing. I still don't see the point of extending the welder power cords and having to lug a welder in and out of the garage when you can extend the welding cables much easier and leave the welder where it sits - unless you are using a wire welder.
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Qapla said:
The power cord that came with the welder is all of 6 feet long, not enough to even get into the garage. Why not get really long leads? Because 50 feet of 1/0 cable is $200 and that would only make me two 25 foot leads. I do still want longer leads but I will wait for a good price on craigslist.
grsthegreat
Super Star Member
This is like the 4th post in this site that has debated welder circuits.
I am an electrical contractor and all i can say is were required to provide a #6 cord for a 50 amp rated draw per NEC requirements. For 100 foot run you dont need to worry about voltage drop.
Where the problem lies in on the manufacturers end. They arnt burdened by the NEC. Why else do you find lamp cord wire used on a light fixture that has 20 - 60 watt light bulbs burning. the manufacturers can care less. Same with welders. Ive seen new units with 50 amp rated nameplates that have #10 pigtail wires on them. A #10 wire is rated at 30 amp continuous load. The thing about a 50 amp welder, it will peak at 50 amps for 1/10 of a second during ark start...then it drops off drastically as welding continues. The NEC has entire sections allocated to derating factors on welders. Its a real mess. All i know is i have to ... by law.. wire welder circuits & welder extension cords RATED to the nameplate... not to what the pigtail is.
I am an electrical contractor and all i can say is were required to provide a #6 cord for a 50 amp rated draw per NEC requirements. For 100 foot run you dont need to worry about voltage drop.
Where the problem lies in on the manufacturers end. They arnt burdened by the NEC. Why else do you find lamp cord wire used on a light fixture that has 20 - 60 watt light bulbs burning. the manufacturers can care less. Same with welders. Ive seen new units with 50 amp rated nameplates that have #10 pigtail wires on them. A #10 wire is rated at 30 amp continuous load. The thing about a 50 amp welder, it will peak at 50 amps for 1/10 of a second during ark start...then it drops off drastically as welding continues. The NEC has entire sections allocated to derating factors on welders. Its a real mess. All i know is i have to ... by law.. wire welder circuits & welder extension cords RATED to the nameplate... not to what the pigtail is.
crazyal
Super Member
The question was why could a welder use a smaller gauge cord than what the national electrical code requires for wiring a house. For that the NEC doesn't apply.
rsewill
Veteran Member
grsthegreat said:
Thanks!
Freakingstang
Gold Member
I agree with everything except the #10 at a continous 30 amps. For romex cable, sure. Not so much with 3 or 4 strand SO cable. 30 amps continous will burn the neutral.
I work for a generator company that provides distro along with cabling. We use 10/5 SO (90c) with our 21-20 plugs (20amps) even at a full 20 amps you can see the neutral cable charred inside the insulation.
Another thing to remember (for all the guys not electrical savy) is that a breaker has two purposes. It will trip when it heats up. A 50 amp breaker is a thermal breaker and is only good for 80% for a continuous load. It will only trip once it exceeds that 80% for an extended period. The other purpose is to provide a break point in case of a direct short (phase to phase or phase to ground). If you are using cable inadequate for the load, the breaker doesn't know, doesn't care.. So if the cable is on fire from over amperage, the breaker isn't going to trip until the insulation melts and two lines cross... We see it on a lot larger scale with our 400 amp rated 4/0 cable. The weak link is in the connection points (cam lock ends similar to stick lead extensions). If we are pulling 350-380 amps (digital breakers rated for 100% continous) and there is a weak connection point heat is created. We had a couple cam lock catch fire (just smoldering) at this years super bowl with only 200-220 amps on cable rated for 400...
Just keep that in mind.. Don't cut corners when it comes to electricity. No one here wants to see anything happen to anyones shop, house or barn
CJONE
Veteran Member
???? For a 220-240v welder? If you are cooking the neutral you have got major problems. Something is trying to run on 120. CJ
patrick_g
Elite Member
Amen, brother, just what was going to say. If the welder is powered by 220-240 then why is there any current in the neutral conductor? I suppose it is possible a panel lamp or maybe a fan could run on 120 but not take enough power to heat the neutral.
I think the poster related his experience and his observations are valid but they are for a different situation where 120VAC was being supplied so don't apply here.
Pat
crazyal
Super Member
Here's what my manual for my Lincoln 255 MIG welder recommends. The 255 is about as big of a mig welder that I think you'll ever need. But I wouldn't rule out finding a Lincoln tombstone 250 or 300 amp stick welder for cheap.
I think you'll be safe with 8 gauge wire, even for a large stick welder. I went with 6 because it's not that much more, the only draw back to larger wire is weight and stiffness, and if I ever need to make a second cord in the future so I can weld something further way (maybe can't get close enough to my garage) I can just plug it into the extension cord I already have. I'm sure it's over kill 99% of the time.
I think you'll be safe with 8 gauge wire, even for a large stick welder. I went with 6 because it's not that much more, the only draw back to larger wire is weight and stiffness, and if I ever need to make a second cord in the future so I can weld something further way (maybe can't get close enough to my garage) I can just plug it into the extension cord I already have. I'm sure it's over kill 99% of the time.
crazyal
Super Member
Here's what my manual for my Lincoln 255 MIG welder recommends. The 255 is about as big of a mig welder that I think you'll ever need. But I wouldn't rule out finding a Lincoln tombstone 250 or 300 amp stick welder for cheap.
I think you'll be safe with 8 gauge wire, even for a large stick welder. I went with 6 because it's not that much more, the only draw back to larger wire is weight and stiffness, and if I ever need to make a second cord in the future so I can weld something further way (maybe can't get close enough to my garage) I can just plug it into the extension cord I already have. I'm sure it's over kill 99% of the time.
I think you'll be safe with 8 gauge wire, even for a large stick welder. I went with 6 because it's not that much more, the only draw back to larger wire is weight and stiffness, and if I ever need to make a second cord in the future so I can weld something further way (maybe can't get close enough to my garage) I can just plug it into the extension cord I already have. I'm sure it's over kill 99% of the time.
Freakingstang
Gold Member
Sorry, yes... On a typical 208-240 single phase welder, you should not even have a neutral, just normally two hots and a ground.
Since the thread was welder ext cords...I threw in some personal experiece as there are plenty of 110 buzz boxes and plasma cutters out there and DIY people don't always know the hazzards...
I should have been more clear with what I meant
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