YM336D - Started knocking loud while tilling

[Domush]

What a day!

Installed the new liners. I put them in my freezer overnight so the metal would contract. Worked awesome! They slid right in with a 2x4 on top and a few taps of a mallet to seat them on the o-rings. You wouldn't think it looking at them, but those things are heavy.. at ~7-8lbs each.

The pistons went in without issue. Keeping specks of dirt from sneaking into the cylinders and onto the pistons themselves was a job with my horribly dirty workbench.

Ain't she purdy! They come nicely crosshatched already, so I didn't bother de-glazing them. Note the top of the piston.. the previous owner way overtightened the set screw on the compression release and forced the valves into the pistons (all three). Amazingly the pistons survived. I adjusted them back to where they should be and pulling the compression release lever is now easy! It used to take two hands to get it pulled out. Much improved.

All 3 pistons are back in and getting ready to install the head. Funny thing, I didn't want to risk using my cheapo Harbor Freight torque wrench, so I got one on loan from an auto center.. it was a renamed HF one, haha! At least theirs was 1/2" drive, though, so I got it anyhow.

Head is all installed and torqued down. Set the valve clearances, and reinstalled all of the fluids. All that is left is the 4WD shaft.

And the moment you have all been waiting for... a video of the post-rebuild initial start-up!

Til tomorrow!

 

[284 International]

Outstanding! I'm glad it is running. That must be a relief.

Did you end up shimming the springs?

 

[tcartwri]

And the moment you have all been waiting for... a video of the post-rebuild initial start-up!

Til tomorrow!

Clever ! :laughing:

 

[clemsonfor]

All that and you forgot to put the battery on charge while you rebuilt it!! Ohwell its always something!!

Nice job on the reassembly, you will good to go for another 5k hours!

 

[kenmac]

Very nice:thumbsup:

 

[Domush]

For those who didn't watch the video, it never started. The battery was dead, so I have to charge it this morning before I can do the initial start. I'll be starting it for the first time this afternoon.

 

[Car Doc]

Well good it went together nice so now we are all in suspense wondering if the pump and injectors will cooperate least I am! :thumbsup:

 

[tcartwri]

Don't forget to crack the fittings on the injectors a little, or you will be cranking for a looooong time..... Once it's running you can snug them up. :thumbsup:

 

[Domush]

Uhhh, very bad news I think.

It started just fine, I ran it for a bit, then when I went to adjust the idle up to near PTO speed it stalled as though it overheated and the starter was barely able to turn it over more than once (definitely not fast enough to restart it). I pulled the compression release and it turned over seemingly fine. I don't dare restart it, now.

I ran it at 1300 RPMs until the temp reached about 110F. The oil pressure was steady at 57PSI, then gradually went down to ~45PSI as it warmed up.

I also notice there is smoke in the crankcase and it still smoked while running (though not as bad as before the rebuild).

When it was running, I tried to narrow down where what I could only consider the "yammer hammer" noise is coming from (the same noise I heard when it was running fine before the rebuild) and it sounds as though it is coming from between cyl 2 and 3 in the top of the block, but below the head. This is just speculation, though, as I had earmuffs on, since it's a loud engine anyhow. Not sure if that means anything or helps, but figured I'd include it.

What could have happened? Should I be pulling the oil pan to check the bearings? I don't know enough about these things to diagnose these issues

I made a short video of the restart which I'll post on youtube (takes a while to upload) and add it when it's complete. The video ends before the stall out, though.

If you need more info, let me know and I'll answer right away.

 

[tcartwri]

Well, don't forget that #2 injector was suspect right from the beginning. Is there any flow from that fitting while the engine is running?

 

[Car Doc]

As far as the same knock etc goes do the injector lines all have equal flow at the injectors you never did post the results of the blow thru the lines test?

The whole shut down under load/overheat thing is troublesome at best are the caps on right and how much clearance did they have when you plastigaged them? Pull the pan is the only way to tell if its the crank and it shouldn't be unless something was installed wrong. A folded oil ring comes to mind does this have solid oil ring or separate scrapers and expander?

I had one piston of mine out and I dont remember what it had seems like it was a solid but elifino now.

Was there a little side to side movement in the rods once they were torqued? Needs to be some or that is an indication they may be mis placed turned around too tight etc.

fwtw the oil pressure sounds right but that isn't a good indicator of problems either engines only need 10-15 psi to run just fine.

I am out of words at this point need more info sorry.

 

[clemsonfor]

Man i dont want to hear that! I was hopeing to see you with a smile on your face and working that thing tonight. I hope you can get this thing fiqured out. Keep at it man i know youll get it.

 

[Domush]

Well, don't forget that #2 injector was suspect right from the beginning. Is there any flow from that fitting while the engine is running?

I didn't think to check the pump output while it was running. I'll crank it a bit tomorrow to check.

As far as the same knock etc goes do the injector lines all have equal flow at the injectors you never did post the results of the blow thru the lines test?

It isn't the same knock as right before the rebuild. It is the same knock it had before the bad knock, if that makes sense. I think it is just a diesel knock, but I haven't been around enough diesels to know what that sounds like.

are the caps on right

Yep, double checked them tonight.

how much clearance did they have when you plastigaged them?

I'll plastigauge them tomorrow. I didn't bother because I didn't see what good it would do me, as I wasn't getting the crankshaft turned anyhow. If it matters, I'll get it done.

A folded oil ring comes to mind does this have solid oil ring or separate scrapers and expander?

it is a mostly solid, two bladed ring with a bunch of holes between them and that weird spring thing on the inside.

Was there a little side to side movement in the rods once they were torqued? Needs to be some or that is an indication they may be mis placed turned around too tight etc.

Two out of the three rods will shimmy back and forth, the third is pretty solid in place. I noticed that tonight and thought that seemed weird, but couldn't think as to how I could fix it. Should I back off the cap torque until it does shimmy? I noticed that same bearing had a tiny bit of material missing in the middle and the other two sets were brand new still. I checked the piston alignment and they are facing the right direction..

I know there was a time I though the cyl #'s were reversed, so I'll check to see if I still thought they were reversed when I took the pistons out or not.. I don't recall when I realized the correct order. I took notes, though, so I'll check them.
[/QUOTE]

 

[westcliffe01]

You are doing an in frame rebuild, so things are tough. I usually like to check EVERYTHING when I do a rebuild, because one somethings finds strange things lurking that you could miss otherwise. Did you check the condition of the camshaft and followers ? The driving mechanism / chain / tensioner ? Condition of the water pump ? Does the tractor have a coolant temperature gauge and does it work right ?

I once rebuilt an engine and it overheated so bad in the first 20 miles that I ruined the head gasket. Came to find out (since I had totally torn down the engine) that the radiator core was completely plugged. 1 new radiator later + a new head gasket and that motor ran sweet for the next 5 years until I sold the car. And I believe the new owner drove it until he retired. The radiator was probably the reason why the engine went out in the first place, the valve seals were all cooked and oil was pouring into the intake.

 

[Domush]

How would I go about checking if the coolant passages are open? The temp gauge only read 110-120F, though I've never seen it read any higher than 140F. I think it is reasonably accurate.

I have had a very slow coolant leak (1 cup every 1 hours or so) above my water pump which I have not been able to stop. I wonder if it is caused by a water blockage, and the pressure is building until it leaks? Probable? Wouldn't that affect the temp gauge reading, though?

The oil looks the same color as before, so is hasn't gotten darker. Not sure if that matters.

I also checked the valve springs, and they don't bottom out (I was worried about that with the new shims installed).

 

[Domush]

Here is [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AMUrZWVuC8"]the video of the initial start[/ame].. does it sound like a normal diesel or no? I have no frame of reference besides a Bobcat 4 cyl which sounds nothing like this.

 

[5030]

I just want to say.. Hoye Tractor messed up my entire week. Their package arrived in record time (1 day!), and I was hoping to have a delay so I could actually get some paying work done. Now I'm going to be tempted all week long to work on the tractor some more. What an awful predicament to be in :confused2:! Why, Hoye, why are you so awesomely fast at shipping? :thumbsup:

Tomorrow I'll be pulling the #3 liner and I'll be sure to throw the new liners in the freezer, save myself a headache getting them in. I have quite a bit of cleaning to do where the liners go, rust and goo (what used to be o-rings) and all.. and hopefully I'll find a minute or two for paying stuff, too.

I'm enjoying this thread to the max. I keep looking at my hands to see if they are getting dirty as I read through the posts.............

A little hint on removing old liners if shrink fit (as yours are).....

Just run a weld bead vertically inside each liner, 90 degrees apart. Nothing fancy, a stick welder and some 6018 or whatever you have around, or even a mig welder, flux or gas.... don't matter. When you run a bead vertically, it shrinks the liner and with 2 beads, let it cool and pull it out...by hand.

I see you know about the freezer method, we use dry ice instead. Quicker.

 

[runningbird]

almost sounds like one injector is not working.

 

[284 International]

It sounds like there is a miss to me once running, too. It also sounds, when the starter is cranking it (at 18 seconds or so), that there is "a hitch in your giddy up," as a girlfriend from Tennessee used to say. Since the compression release is activated, meaning it cant be cylinder compression, but a rod is markedly tighter than the other two, I'm wondering if there isn't a bit of a twist or bend there. Did you check them to see if they were straight?

Otherwise, it doesn't sound too bad. It's intermediate, I would say, to the three cylinder engine in my 186 and the two cylinder engine in my 240, thought it is much larger than either.

The radiator should pass enough water to easily accommodate the flow of a garden hose down the filler neck. With the lower hose off, stick a hose down the filler spout, and turn the hose on full blast. If it all goes out the lower hose and not out the top, you've probably got adequate flow. It's certainly enough to use while you sort out the engine.

I hope you can get it sorted out. You've made a lot of progress in very little time! Stick with it.

 

[rsewill]

Once you figure out the miss, don't let it idle any longer than it takes to build oil pressure. Work it hard, varying the RPM a lot. And do that for at least an hour to seat the rings.