Question moving dirt

[hitekcountry]

I'm considering digging out a basement. The reason for doing this is:
1 The old foundation is brick and needs to be replaced with a more substantial concrete foundation with all the proper hold downs.
2 I want to make it into a full basement, full 8' height where as it is presently a half basement at 6' 6" in height.

Unfortunately it's not convenient to use my tractor. So it will need to be dug out by hand using pick, shovel and electric Hilti with a spade and wheel barrow to move the dirt out about 80 ft. I can hire laborers to do most of the work. I'd like to estimate the feasibility to doing this project and of course the cost.

So my question is - roughly how much dirt (yards) can one man dig and move in an 8 hour day? The dirt here is not very hard to dig.

 

[davedj1]

I can't answer your question but if I understand you correctly you are only going to dig down another 1.5 feet?
Why not dig around one gable wall with backhoe and then drive bucket right in?
We have used a conveyor before, it worked good.
You will probably have to dig all around the outside and support the house while you pour your footings and walls.
Good luck with your project!

 

[hitekcountry]

David

Thanks for your reply.

Half of the basement I'll be going down 1.5 to 2 ft, the other half of the basement I'll be going down about 5 ft.

I can't use a backhoe, I wish I could because I own one. It won't work.

I have the whole project worked out, I just need to figure out how many labors I might need and plan out a schedule.

The conveyor was a consideration.

 

[BeezFun]

I would recommend getting a fixed price from a contractor to remove the dirt. If you're hiring day laborers and they're doing the work by hand you would be lucky to get a yard of dirt a day per person. There's no motivation to work hard for you, they'll never be back again and they can get a job hanging balloons making the same money. A laborer working for a contractor would probably move 3-4 times that much or he wouldn't have a job.

I assume you know you'll need some kind of reinforcement as you dig down against each wall. The load path through dirt is usually considered to be at a 30deg angle, so you're effectively undercutting the footing even if you just dig down straight.

 

[Sonny580]

Ever hear of slip scoops???--- old timers used them to move/dig dirt with horses.---ok,-- take the bucket from a modern 3-pt. model, attach handles,and yoke to pull from, drag it back under the house and pull very slowly out a small hole and dump the bucket just out side the house and move it farther with your hoe.---a couple guys on the scoop can move tons of dirt per hour!---Might take a couple extra cases of Bud-Light but if it motivates the dudes they will treat you right!.!(I would think) thanks; sonny

 

[Code54]

Can't answer your question but can u get a dingo in there ( mini walk behind bobcat)
Lot faster even if u just use it to fill wheel barrels

 

[hitekcountry]

I would recommend getting a fixed price from a contractor to remove the dirt. If you're hiring day laborers and they're doing the work by hand you would be lucky to get a yard of dirt a day per person. There's no motivation to work hard for you, they'll never be back again and they can get a job hanging balloons making the same money. A laborer working for a contractor would probably move 3-4 times that much or he wouldn't have a job.

I assume you know you'll need some kind of reinforcement as you dig down against each wall. The load path through dirt is usually considered to be at a 30deg angle, so you're effectively undercutting the footing even if you just dig down straight.

I would be working right along with them so if they screw around their gone. And of course once I get started I'll quickly answer my own question as to how much can be done in a day. I'm just trying to estimate before I start.

Yes I'm fully aware of the support issues. I own my own foundation jacks I have plenty of cribbing I've done foundation work before, Like I said I have all those details worked out. I've just not moved the volume of dirt by hand that I'll need to move on this project. I only need one thing. To get a good Idea of what to expect can be moved by one man in 8 hours.

 

[brokenknee]

Can't answer your question but can u get a dingo in there ( mini walk behind bobcat)
Lot faster even if u just use it to fill wheel barrels

A dingo would be the ticket. Would be much cheaper than hiring labors.

 

[hitekcountry]

Ever hear of slip scoops???--- old timers used them to move/dig dirt with horses.---ok,-- take the bucket from a modern 3-pt. model, attach handles,and yoke to pull from, drag it back under the house and pull very slowly out a small hole and dump the bucket just out side the house and move it farther with your hoe.---a couple guys on the scoop can move tons of dirt per hour!---Might take a couple extra cases of Bud-Light but if it motivates the dudes they will treat you right!.!(I would think) thanks; sonny

I should mention - this building is in the city I'm very constrained all around it.
Great suggestion though.

Thanks

 

[hitekcountry]

Can't answer your question but can u get a dingo in there ( mini walk behind bobcat)
Lot faster even if u just use it to fill wheel barrels

I'll check that out.

Thanks

 

[hitekcountry]

I did a quick google search on the dingo. I like the looks of that. Tomorrow I'll check into the rentals.

 

[/pine]

roughly how much dirt (yards) can one man dig and move in an 8 hour day? The dirt here is not very hard to dig.

Your local library or book store (you can just browse )...look for 'Walker's Building Estimator'
or Amazon.com: Walker's Building Estimator's Reference Book

this will give you a very accurate idea of how much labor time will be required...

 

[smilindave]

you said you would be working with the crew of diggers. why don't you just dig for an hour yourself and see how much dirt you moved, and do the math from there?

 

[greenthumb]

A friend of mine dad did this right after we got out of high school. He used buckets shovels wheel barrels and kept the project going with beer as a enticement. Turned out pretty cool. Was also. Different era

 

[Jimbo16720]

What we did years ago was first put a hole through the wall where we wanted a doorway. We then started digging from there to the back wall straight in so we could drive our lawn tractor with a dump cart to the back wall. My dad, my brother, and myself dug it out in a couple days. You can then take one corner of the old wall out and start laying block there and work your way around from there. That way you only have to brace part of the house at one time.:confused2:

 

[s219]

you said you would be working with the crew of diggers. why don't you just dig for an hour yourself and see how much dirt you moved, and do the math from there?

And be sure to pace yourself and plan that into the calculations. I've shoveled multiple yards of dirt when I was too young and dumb to know better, and it ended up giving me wrist problems. I no longer think it's smart to just go shovel for hours and hours -- it's one of those repetitive jobs that can cause all sorts of injuries, especially to wrists, elbows, and back.

Recently I had to move 4 yards of crusher run from my trailer to the tractor front bucket to use in a culvert. I was getting loads one yard at a time. Overall, it worked out to about a 1.5 hour cycle per yard, including time to go get the stone 4 miles away, time to shovel into the bucket (which holds about 1/6 yard), time to unload and spread it, etc. I didn't have any major wrist problems, and I think it was because I was breaking up the work. I could have gone faster if I was just shoveling 100% of the time, but I bet it would have clobbered my wrists.

 

[EddieWalker]

My brother had this done in Salt Lake City about a dozen years ago. His house was in city limits, and in a pretty normal residential neighborhood. There was a one room basement that he wanted to dig out to the full width of the house above and make two bedrooms and a bathroom.

I don't know what he paid, or how long it took, but the digging was the easy part. They dug a ramp in his yard down to where they wanted to go, and ran a skid steer back and forth digging out under his house. When they got to the existing room, the took out the existing walls one at a time. As they dug, they put in bracing. I didn't see it, just what he told me. If my memory is right, I think it took them a week to do the digging.

Eddie

 

[hitekcountry]

you said you would be working with the crew of diggers. why don't you just dig for an hour yourself and see how much dirt you moved, and do the math from there?

Entirely logical question but in order to start digging I need to tear off quite a bit of siding and install some temporary structural supports. That then commits me to continuing on with the project. I wanted to thoroughly understand the scope of the project and the timing and determine what order to schedule different projects
Also I should mention I figure I need to start with digging an access ramp and I need to take a guess how much rain might still be coming. I don't want a big hole sitting there collecting water.

 

[hitekcountry]

They dug a ramp in his yard down to where they wanted to go, and ran a skid steer back and forth digging out under his house. When they got to the existing room, the took out the existing walls one at a time. As they dug, they put in bracing. I didn't see it, just what he told me. If my memory is right, I think it took them a week to do the digging.

Eddie

A little more info. I considered doing just that but the only access where I could build a large enough ramp for a skid steer would be into my neighbor's yard/driveway. We've talked about it and he's ok with it and he's hoping that I'll help him grade his yard and driveway (after he's done working on his house) so that he can pave it. I would help him (I have an L35 with box and T&T) grade his property in any case. So all is good right?

He's a nice guy like 95% of the time but on occasion I get an odd reaction from him like a bad mood or maybe he's having some problem with his girl friend, in which case I avoid them. I know that if I take over his driveway it will be quite disruptive to their lives. I can see complications that I want to avoid. I may take him up on his offer but I like to have a plan in place where I can complete the project without being totally dependant on my neighbors cooperation.

 

[20 20]

I'd get a baby/mini excavator they are used all the time for this type of work. You could also get a dingo or better yet a hand dumper and be done in no time. The best part is you won't be watching guys fall out and you won't be worn out with them. It is 2012 there are ways to do things easier with less blood and pain then 1910. MY hat is off to the ole timers they were a different breed, but thanks to them today when we take one step forward we actually keep moving that direction, this is better then 2 steps forward one back. I also agree with EddieWalker when that dirt starts moving out from under you'll need a place to put it above.