alternative fuel gas

deereman75 · Dec 19, 2011

Well right now I have a blueshield cutting torch it, and a smith aircraft torch for welding. I still want to keep acct around for welding, but I need something cheeper for cutting and heating. Basically what I am wondering is what fuel gas would be best to switch to, and what (other then a grade t hose) do I need to convert. Also, will my existing regulator work with an adaptor, or do I need a new one.

yomax4 · Dec 19, 2011

Propane is the least expensive. Your Acet. Regulator will screw right on. Change the Cutting tip and use the setting chart for the gas and tip size you have. For cutting, May as well use Alternate fuels. You can light both at the same time, Turn off which ever you want to, It just doesn't like to flash back. What I like is you can start a cut and lift your torch up 2" and still be able to cut. Propylene is my favorite. Same price as Acetylene but lasts 4 times longer. Easy to do the math on Alt. Fule savings. ( Blue Shield ? New one on me ) )

deereman75 · Dec 19, 2011

yomax4 said:
Propane is the least expensive. Your Acet. Regulator will screw right on. Change the Cutting tip and use the setting chart for the gas and tip size you have. For cutting, May as well use Alternate fuels. You can light both at the same time, Turn off which ever you want to, It just doesn't like to flash back. What I like is you can start a cut and lift your torch up 2" and still be able to cut. Propylene is my favorite. Same price as Acetylene but lasts 4 times longer. Easy to do the math on Alt. Fule savings. ( Blue Shield ? New one on me ) )

Ok so it sounds like propane it is, I have a spare tank for the BBQ I can use. As for the blueshield torch, it is air liquides house brand. I got the light industrial model, normally cost about $500, but I think we payed about $300. Guys there are really honest, and have the best service (imo) of any local LWS, so we took their recomendation. I think it has a much nicer feel then the victor. I think they are a lot more common here in canada, air liquide is the main lws here, almost all the electrodes used up here are blueshield brand.

deereman75 · Dec 20, 2011

I have been looking around and have only been able to find acet. rose buds for my little smith. I thought I heard somewhere that they can also be used with propane. Is that right, or will I have to keep looking for the propane one.

nwbearcat · Dec 20, 2011

Don't know on the tips, I thought they worked either way. When you switch to propane, you are supposed to use "T" grade hoses though, something about the propane causes the standard "R" grade hoses to break down an potentially fail

monckywrench · Dec 20, 2011

The Home Machinist! • View topic - Oxy-propane, BBQ tanks as soldering/brazing fuel?

Scroll down for my "rosebud flameholder mod". You could split a piece of copper pipe or MIG nozzle and clamp it with a worm-drive hose clamp if you like.

If your rosebud won't stay lit, it's not suitable for LP without modification. If you observe how far out from an acetylene rosebud the LP flame burns, you'll see why the flameholder trick works.

As usual, no guarantees express or implied, but it works very well for me and I tried vigorously to swing the rosebud fast enough to blow out the flame.

Many people use R-hoses for years, but code says "T" and you cant' go wrong with that.

yomax4 · Dec 20, 2011

deereman75 said:
I have been looking around and have only been able to find acet. rose buds for my little smith. I thought I heard somewhere that they can also be used with propane. Is that right, or will I have to keep looking for the propane one.

Naa. Don't light the Acet. Rose Bud with LP. Not meant to be. Or worse yet. Vise Versa.

monckywrench · Dec 21, 2011

One way to get a similar effect for much less money is to get the largest LP cutting tip which will fit your torch, and not use the cutting oxygen. Fat preheat flames work fine for many heating tasks, and the large tip sizes are often cheap on Ebay.

Medium & Standard Duty

Beats buying a LP rosebud, takes very little space.

Or worse yet. Vise Versa.

Good point about not running an LP rosebud with Acetylene. While some acetylene rosebuds will tolerate LP in still air, LP rosebuds aren't designed for acetylene.

Run flash arrestors with ALL rosebuds as they are high-flow items.

deereman75 · Dec 21, 2011

monckywrench said:
One way to get a similar effect for much less money is to get the largest LP cutting tip which will fit your torch, and not use the cutting oxygen. Fat preheat flames work fine for many heating tasks, and the large tip sizes are often cheap on Ebay.

Medium & Standard Duty

Beats buying a LP rosebud, takes very little space.

Good point about not running an LP rosebud with Acetylene. While some acetylene rosebuds will tolerate LP in still air, LP rosebuds aren't designed for acetylene.

Run flash arrestors with ALL rosebuds as they are high-flow items.

One problem with the big cutting tip idea is that the only cutting attachment I have is a blueshield one, and I think they have their own special tips, so I almost never see them on ebay. Also, the blueshield tips (if I recall right) cost a fair bit more then say victor tips. They are a 3 tube design, so they might be smith style, I will have to ask next time I am there. Last time I got a cutting tip, I recall it was around $20, and lp ones might be more. So it might cost me less in the long run to get a differnt torch for cutting. I could get a cutting attachment for my smith aw-1, but I think it might be too small to be good for cutting. I have thought about getting a straight torch before, it is just a matter of finding a used one cheep. Any ideas on what I should do?

monckywrench · Dec 21, 2011

Any ideas on what I should do?

Post clear pics of your torch tip REMOVED FROM THE TORCH, side view, of your torch handle, and of the cutting attachment.

I like straight torches for cutting, but you should solve your tip problem first by knowing what your torch takes so if you get a straight torch later you can have matching tips.

Post your exact torch model number if you will have a delay posting pics and I'll attempt to look it up.

We'll figure something out. The Blueshield website is horrid but tip pics will tell the tale. The very few pics I see look like Airco tips. Tip designs go back many decades (I'll spare the welding history and patent war lecture) but here's an Airco-style (made by Uniweld) tip:

deereman75 · Dec 21, 2011

monckywrench said:
Post clear pics of your torch tip REMOVED FROM THE TORCH, side view, of your torch handle, and of the cutting attachment.

I like straight torches for cutting, but you should solve your tip problem first by knowing what your torch takes so if you get a straight torch later you can have matching tips.

Post your exact torch model number if you will have a delay posting pics and I'll attempt to look it up.

We'll figure something out. The Blueshield website is horrid but tip pics will tell the tale. The very few pics I see look like Airco tips. Tip designs go back many decades (I'll spare the welding history and patent war lecture) but here's an Airco-style (made by Uniweld) tip:

I am actually on vacation right now, so I wont be able to get pics of it for about 2 weeks. It is the DUO-2 light industrial kit, if that helps at all. The pic of the tip you posted looked a lot like it.

deereman75 · Dec 21, 2011

Well after looking around a bit, I think ou are right on the tip style, I am 99% sure it is airco. When I get back, I will take one of my blueshield tips in, and compair it to an airco tip. One other annyoing thing I found is air liquide uses a differnt style acet tank valve, so I think I will have to get a differnt reg for propane. I think I will also get a bigger o2 tank, mine is a 55cf, I am going to trade it off for a 110cf. I think for the straight torch, (provided my torch is airco style) I will get the uniweld 18 inch airco style straight torch, either that or try and find a used one.

monckywrench · Dec 21, 2011

One other annyoing thing I found is air liquide uses a differnt style acet tank valve, so I think I will have to get a differnt reg for propane.

Nope. Adapters are available cheaply to connect (any) acetylene regulator fitting to the CGA-510 LP tanks.

Click on the Acrobat catalog page for excellent drawings:

Stoody Industrial and Welding Supply-specializing in industrial gases and welding supplies

deereman75 · Dec 21, 2011

monckywrench said:
Nope. Adapters are available cheaply to connect (any) acetylene regulator fitting to the CGA-510 LP tanks.

Click on the Acrobat catalog page for excellent drawings:

Stoody Industrial and Welding Supply-specializing in industrial gases and welding supplies

Oh thats great, that just saved me $90.

deereman75 · Dec 24, 2011

Ok I have done a lot of digging around, and I think I have determined the tip style of my torch. From what I can tell, air liquide torches are made by concoa, which bought out the airco torch line. Also, I have compared pictures of air liquie tips, and airco tips, and they are the same. I have also compared pictures or the torches and regs, from concoa and air liquide, and they are the same. So I am 99% sure my torch uses airco style tips.
Here is a picture of the air liquide tip.

Edit: the air liquide tips even come in the exact same package as the airco tips from concoa.

yomax4 · Dec 24, 2011

Koike tips look very similar to Airco too.

monckywrench · Dec 24, 2011

Airco, Koike, Concoa, and clones interchange as they are based on the same Airco patents. I've swapped plenty of Koike and Aircos and generics. I haven't bought any Concoas since Airco are so plentiful.

Grab some tips off Ebay etc and have at it!

Also, LOOK at the distinctive Airco tip base, because many Ebay sellers have no torch experience and YOU knowing what they are selling is an advantage.

If you look for a straight torch, the classic Airco corncob style (steel head preferred) are well regarded. Concoas sometimes turn up used too.

rhett · Dec 24, 2011

here is a nice comparison writeup
Propane versus Acetylene

Shield Arc · Dec 24, 2011

rhett thanks for posting that article!:thumbsup: I read every word of it. Last time I used propane to cut with was on a joint venture construction site in the 1980s, I remember it cutting fine, but taking a little too long to preheat. After reading that article, now I know I was doing it wrong. I have seen 3 and 4 inch plate cut with propane, but it was with a tractor torch.

deereman75 · Dec 24, 2011

monckywrench said:
If you look for a straight torch, the classic Airco corncob style (steel head preferred) are well regarded. Concoas sometimes turn up used too.

I was looking at one of the new uniweld 18 inch straight torches, but I always prefer old stuff, so I think I will try and find one of those old aircos.