DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse.

[Coyote machine]

I also for one just believe that its simply a harmonic sound issue, and the steel pipes were causing this noise. By switching the pipe to rubber, this eliminated the issue. Its interesting to note that this noise only happened when the whether was cold and the fluids thinner. Didnt happen in colder climates. The power of the transmission wasnt affected by this.

I really believe some are making this out to be too great of an issue. I had a Ford Taurus that blew the transmission a little after 100,000 miles on it. When i took it to the transmission shop...the service tech told me flat out that nearly all older ford taurus's blew the tranny around 100,000 mi due to some plastic throw out parts in them. It was a known manufacturers defect and FORD did nothing to fix the old rigs or even acknowledge the issue... after 100,000 miles why should they.



MInd you Ford changed those parts in later rigs, but didnt repair the first vehicles affected. This is how ALL car companies react.

Even when my tractor made these noises, no effect on tractor was noticed. (ie harmonics again). Also nice to note that alot of Kubotas and even my neighbord JD HST unit are saying the same things about their HST trannies.

What didn't happen in colder climates? Ever been to Maine or Vermont in winter?!:confused2:
How are you determining the transmission power was not affected?

Just like the rest of us you're entitled to express your opinion, right or wrong, but declaring that some of us are making to much of this issue is not helpful. If you're satisfied with the rubber hose routine then so be it, for YOU.
Exploding Taurus, so what?
Other tractor manufacturers experiencing similar problems? Again so what? They may be buying from the same manufacturer of transmissions, and should also be seeking resolution to the problems with their engineers.

Kioti is my only tractor, and I'm confident that they may find a solution to the underlying problem, IF they're kept focused on it by their customers who want resolution, not TEMPORARY fixes and band-aids for their expensive tractors.

What other companies, Ford, Deere, etc. do or don't do to resolve car/tractor issues at 100K miles, or other brand tractor issues is between them and their customers, and is largely irrelevant to this discussion. This problem for most of us who actually have it, started within hours of bringing the tractor home. It has and had nothing to do with attachments like backhoes, etc. So maybe we could keep this thread focused on the problem at hand, because I for one know there are quite a few others who would like this issue FIXED before they are 4 1/2 years out and their warranty has expired.
This type of problem is exactly what we paid big money for a new tractor for in the first place- when a problem occurs and is brought to the selling dealer's attention and then to the regional rep and Kioti Corporate it is their job and legal obligation under the warranty to FIX the problem to their customer's satisfaction.
This has NOT occurred in any sense of the word FIXED, to date.

 

[grsthegreat]

What didn't happen in colder climates? Ever been to Maine or Vermont in winter?!:confused2:
How are you determining the transmission power was not affected?

Just like the rest of us you're entitled to express your opinion, right or wrong, but declaring that some of us are making to much of this issue is not helpful. If you're satisfied with the rubber hose routine then so be it, for YOU.
Exploding Taurus, so what?
Other tractor manufacturers experiencing similar problems? Again so what? They may be buying from the same manufacturer of transmissions, and should also be seeking resolution to the problems with their engineers.

Kioti is my only tractor, and I'm confident that they may find a solution to the underlying problem, IF they're kept focused on it by their customers who want resolution, not TEMPORARY fixes and band-aids for their expensive tractors.

What other companies, Ford, Deere, etc. do or don't do to resolve car/tractor issues at 100K miles, or other brand tractor issues is between them and their customers, and is largely irrelevant to this discussion. This problem for most of us who actually have it, started within hours of bringing the tractor home. It has and had nothing to do with attachments like backhoes, etc. So maybe we could keep this thread focused on the problem at hand, because I for one know there are quite a few others who would like this issue FIXED before they are 4 1/2 years out and their warranty has expired.
This type of problem is exactly what we paid big money for a new tractor for in the first place- when a problem occurs and is brought to the selling dealer's attention and then to the regional rep and Kioti Corporate it is their job and legal obligation under the warranty to FIX the problem to their customer's satisfaction.
This has NOT occurred in any sense of the word FIXED, to date.

ya well, whatever. anyone is allowed to worry themselves into an early grave over a non issue also. to each their own. Its obviously just a noise....not a grinding of gears or anything like that. If a correction eliminates the noise, then the issue is solved.
dont have to be sherlock holmes to see that

 

[IslandTractor]

Coyote, keep in mind that the real problem may actually be the external lines. It may be the actual cause not just the symptom. Waiting for the "real" answer may not be realistic as there is no particular reason to doubt the idea that the lines themselves are the cause. If Kioti would just commit to a service bulletin it would establish that as the current understanding and also provide the underpinning for an extended warranty if they turn out to be wrong.

 

[Coyote machine]

ya well, whatever. anyone is allowed to worry themselves into an early grave over a non issue also. to each their own'

So now it's: "ya well, whatever."
Seems you're the one who WANTED to join the club of those who have the noise. Read your earliest posts asking about the noise, expressing curiosity about it, and then finally describing what noise you were hearing and being told you likely DID NOT have the noise the rest of us have. And then you went ahead and got your dealer to come out and do the hose change anyway?!:confused2: Guess you're the one with the "non issue"
So yeah, whatever...do you even have a dog in this race?
If not, allow the rest of us to seek out resolution to our tractor's problems.
Thanks.

 

[grsthegreat]

So now it's: "ya well, whatever."
Seems you're the one who WANTED to join the club of those who have the noise. Read your earliest posts asking about the noise, expressing curiosity about it, and then finally describing what noise you were hearing and being told you likely DID NOT have the noise the rest of us have. And then you went ahead and got your dealer to come out and do the hose change anyway?!:confused2: Guess you're the one with the "non issue"
So yeah, whatever...do you even have a dog in this race?
If not, allow the rest of us to seek out resolution to our tractor's problems.
Thanks.

what is your problem. does only your thoughts count and the rest of us are morons or what.

If my brakes squeal and the mechanic stops the squeal i dont ask to see a report on braking efficiencies changed by the new pads or have the hydraulic brake pressures checked. I pay him and say thank you and drive off.

If the squeal is fixed, than im happy. Seams to me you think theres a hidden agenda from Kioti to brush this under the carpet, and im saying i dont think so. they are talking to my dealer about possible repairs after they have checked with their manufacturer. They sent the parts to my dealer, and he put them on my tractor. So i dont see any hidden agenda...sorry

 

[Coyote machine]

Coyote, keep in mind that the real problem may actually be the external lines. It may be the actual cause not just the symptom. Waiting for the "real" answer may not be realistic as there is no particular reason to doubt the idea that the lines themselves are the cause. If Kioti would just commit to a service bulletin it would establish that as the current understanding and also provide the underpinning for an extended warranty if they turn out to be wrong.

Island,
I hear you on that it MAY/MIGHT be the actual cause of the noise, BUT as you stated, until Kioti speaks officially, through a service bulletin, for instance, I'm not inclined to take what Kattywumpas described as the East Coat's Zone Rep's "Temporary Fix" ( rubber hose and fitting replacing steel line) solution to the problem as being the final answer- if for no other reason than if it isn't, and we run out of warranty, and THEN Kioti comes up with a real fix all of us who run out the warranty are screwed. IF the rubber hose routine ends up being the "official fix" I will accept that and expect Kioti to have my dealer install it at Kioti's expense.

 

[RJJR]

Coyote, keep in mind that the real problem may actually be the external lines. It may be the actual cause not just the symptom. Waiting for the "real" answer may not be realistic as there is no particular reason to doubt the idea that the lines themselves are the cause. If Kioti would just commit to a service bulletin it would establish that as the current understanding and also provide the underpinning for an extended warranty if they turn out to be wrong.

+1 on the service bulletin.
RJJR

 

[IslandTractor]

+1 on the service bulletin.
RJJR

I'm not holding my breath but I hope those of you who have the squeal are squealing to Kioti about the lack of such a service bulletin. I recall that several of the TBN active dealers were helpful in going through dealer channels to Kioti during the cracked loader fiasco period. They eventually came up with a remediation program/bulletin but man oh man did it take a long time. As I noted earlier, the issue seems to be lack of leadership at Kioti. My guess is that the engineers know that they think and could write up a bulletin tomorrow but the corporate chiefs are reluctant to put it out until they have covered their butts. That makes me think that the president/CEO is more of a bean counter than a stand up leader.

 

[Coyote machine]

what is your problem. does only your thoughts count and the rest of us are morons or what.

If my brakes squeal and the mechanic stops the squeal i dont ask to see a report on braking efficiencies changed by the new pads or have the hydraulic brake pressures checked. I pay him and say thank you and drive off.

If the squeal is fixed, than im happy. Seams to me you think theres a hidden agenda from Kioti to brush this under the carpet, and im saying i dont think so. they are talking to my dealer about possible repairs after they have checked with their manufacturer. They sent the parts to my dealer, and he put them on my tractor. So i dont see any hidden agenda...sorry

If you're happy with the fix that has been given to you by your dealer then TERRIFIC ! Can you let the rest of us- including Kattywumpas, who was the originator of this thread, (who BTW, said the new hydro-stat pump replacement AND the flex rubber hose designed by Kioti and installed by their East Coast's Regional Rep's technician DID NOT solve the problem); let us continue to pursue a solution to this without being told were making too much of it all. Ok? Can we move on now?
Thanks.

 

[grsthegreat]

If you're happy with the fix that has been given to you by your dealer then TERRIFIC ! Can you let the rest of us- including Kattywumpas, who was the originator of this thread, (who BTW, said the new hydro-stat pump replacement AND the flex rubber hose designed by Kioti and installed by their East Coast's Regional Rep's technician DID NOT solve the problem); let us continue to pursue a solution to this without being told were making too much of it all. Ok? Can we move on now?
Thanks.

Thats fine..ill let you rant on your own. Im cancelling myself from this thread. nite

 

[Coyote machine]

Island, and others interested in an actual resolution to the problem this thread attempts to address, FWIW, I plan to contact Kioti Corporate and seek an answer to whether they have considered a service bulletin or some other effective means of addressing the issue of the squeal, and if the temporary fix they initiated over a year ago is now the official fix for now and the future of our affected tractors.

 

[IslandTractor]

Island, and others interested in an actual resolution to the problem this thread attempts to address, FWIW, I plan to contact Kioti Corporate and seek an answer to whether they have considered a service bulletin or some other effective means of addressing the issue of the squeal, and if the temporary fix they initiated over a year ago is now the official fix for now and the future of our affected tractors.

That seems a very reasonable next step. Just remember that whoever the poor customer service rep is you end up talking to is not the one who makes policy. One approach that gets around that issue is to send a brief clear letter and email rather than phone call. That allows the question to be bounced up the food chain for a response. Mind you, they ignored several emails like that with the cracked loader issue but eventually they did publish and communicate a response. Good luck.

 

[Coyote machine]

That seems a very reasonable next step. Just remember that whoever the poor customer service rep is you end up talking to is not the one who makes policy. One approach that gets around that issue is to send a brief clear letter and email rather than phone call. That allows the question to be bounced up the food chain for a response. Mind you, they ignored several emails like that with the cracked loader issue but eventually they did publish and communicate a response. Good luck.

Good ideas. Initially I want to find out who is the current East Coast Regional Rep is and see what if anything I can find out by a polite inquiry by phone, then followed by email, letters,...then "lawyers, guns and money*":laughing:

* From Warren Zebon song entitled: "lawyers, guns, & money"

NOT to be mistaken as a literal thing.

 

[gkh7890]

Hey Packmates,

Guys....we are all passionate about our Kiotis so pls stop tearing each other apart and jabbing, etc. Frustration can easily get the better of us all!!!

I haven't re-read everything but it kinda sounds like a harmonic issue w/ the metal piping? Having no scientific experience since my lab days in High School many moons ago, what about trying a different brand of hydraulic fluid (has that been mentioned already)? Could that have an impact at all? Just curious.....

BTW, I now have 178 hrs and still no problems of this nature. Thanks and take care......

 

[Coyote machine]

NEWS from KIOTI: I spoke with Kioti in SC.
They have been working in conjunction with Daedong to find resolution to the 'squeal in reverse' issues and here is the latest.
They have come up with an updated line for the left side of the tractor hydraulics lines from the filter to the HST. This is NOT to be confused with the initial 'fix' pieces which were installed on some tractors as a diagnostic means of determining exactly where the problem originated from. It is being referred to as and 'attenuator' and it treats and solves the noise problem on the symptom level- not the cause level, BUT, as the Kioti official explained to me- Daedong and the HST manufacturer are going beyond that for new production HST's by changing the relief valve in the HST to a different/newer part - details of which are NOT currently available, at least not to me.
Side note: to those who wanted to blow off this problem as nonexistant, maybe next time you might consider sitting back and observing instead of creating un-necessary 'noise' on the channel where the rest of us are seeking out a real solution to a real problem.

Here is what I suggest for those who are currently having issues with the noise: VERIFY that it exists on your specific tractor. Speak with your selling dealer and ASK them to create a case for your tractor and ask them nicely to please contact Kioti NA headquarters and ask for the HST attenuator update to be installed on your tractor while it is under warranty.

Understand too that I do NOT speak for or on behalf of Kioti in this matter.
I will say, from a personal perspective that I am impressed that a solution to the problem has been researched by Kioti both here in the states and in S. Korea.
One further note- I would say that it would be UNreasonable for anyone with a squealing in reverse DK series tractor to expect, (especially since Kioti is searching for/finding a possible solution to the cause at the HST manufacturer level), that anyone would expect or ask for a replacement transmission. I was told that in addition to the newest research and problem solving efforts there is, according to the person I spoke to,: NO damage occurring to the HST unit as a result of the symptomatic noise emanating from the HST units.

Hope this information eases some of your concerns about the issue and it's resolution.:thumbsup:

Happy New Year to all, in advance.

CM out.

 

[dourobob]

Thanks for the work and the solid info CM. I will be following up with my dealer soon.

Bob

 

[tinman955]

Is the Bobcat line of tractors having the same problem? I had a CT440 back in 2009 with simular HST noises and traded it for a SST because of relief valve issues, back then nobody could do anything just said thats the way they all are, when it breaks down call us...

This change of relief valve when did they say it will take effect? 2012 models? Reason I ask is I am thinking of getting a CT450 HST cab.

Good work on being persistant. Thanks for the good info.

 

[Coyote machine]

Dourobob, Tinman955,

You're both welcome for the updated info.

I cannot comment on Bobcat tractors and any issues with them- I simply do NOT know anything about what is happening with them or their HST's, etc.
If you think you have a problem with one of their tractors then contact the selling dealer and discuss it with them.

Keep in mind, the HST relief valve change, when and if it happens, is a decision that will be made by the transmission manufacturer, in conjunction with Daedong, S. Korea, the tractor manufacturer. I have no knowledge of when it will happen or if it will happen.

 

[caver]

Thanks for sharing the update as this might now affect me. I plan on trading my LB1914 TLB for a used DK40HST in a few days. The used DK still has just under 2 years warranty left. I drove it around the dealers lot yesterday but that was a cold engine and I was too busy getting used to the controls. I'll check it a little closer when I go back to close the deal or walk.

 

[RJJR]

Thanks for sharing the update as this might now affect me. I plan on trading my LB1914 TLB for a used DK40HST in a few days. The used DK still has just under 2 years warranty left. I drove it around the dealers lot yesterday but that was a cold engine and I was too busy getting used to the controls. I'll check it a little closer when I go back to close the deal or walk.

Not sure about the other folks but the squeal doesn't show up on mine until I work it pretty hard for an hour or two. In fact I bought it new and drove it around the lot twice to see if it was going to squeal but it wasn't enough to show. Any way to talk to the previous owner as it might be hard to diagnose on the lot?