DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse.

/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #281  
I've been having a similar problem with my Ford New Holland 1520 hydrostatic motor squealing, but I also have a loss of pressure after the charge pump when driving in either forwards or reverse.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/173127-tractor-squeals-under-load-after-8.html#post2522394

Does the squeal you guys are talking about with your Kioti tractors actually cause low pressure, or is it just a noise with no loss of power? It sounds like some of you are losing pressure, but the dealer is saying it's just a harmonic oscillation that won't cause any power issues?

Thanks,

Luke

First I suggest getting familiar with this issue by reading the entire thread. That will answer all your questions. It is a complicated issue to which there is no solution to date. Kioti has issued a hand drawn sketch which shows parts to be replaced to reduce the noise; however the noise is the symptom NOT the problem. The quick fix is just a band-aid in my opinion and NOT a resolution of the underlying problem. Seems that Kioti is OK with making the noise go away even if it does not correct the cause of the noise. I could be wrong about this, but I strongly doubt it.

What dealer are you referring to regarding the following: but the dealer is saying it's just a harmonic oscillation that won't cause any power issues?
Is it your Ford/NH dealer?
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #282  
First I suggest getting familiar with this issue by reading the entire thread. That will answer all your questions. It is a complicated issue to which there is no solution to date. Kioti has issued a hand drawn sketch which shows parts to be replaced to reduce the noise; however the noise is the symptom NOT the problem. The quick fix is just a band-aid in my opinion and NOT a resolution of the underlying problem. Seems that Kioti is OK with making the noise go away even if it does not correct the cause of the noise. I could be wrong about this, but I strongly doubt it.

What dealer are you referring to regarding the following: but the dealer is saying it's just a harmonic oscillation that won't cause any power issues?
Is it your Ford/NH dealer?

Im confused. There saying the noise was caused by a vibration in the close bent hard metal bend. Their repair fixed the noise, so it fixed the problem. It only happened in reverse cause the pressure difference compaired to foreward speeds.

It makes sense to me. A harmonic imbalance created noise. There is nothing wrong with the transmission itself,
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #283  
Im confused. There saying the noise was caused by a vibration in the close bent hard metal bend. Their repair fixed the noise, so it fixed the problem. It only happened in reverse cause the pressure difference compaired to foreward speeds.

It makes sense to me. A harmonic imbalance created noise. There is nothing wrong with the transmission itself,

Fixing the noise/squeal in reverse did nothing to alleviate the pressure drop which occurs when the noise was present. It is my understanding that Kattywumpas's posts of 8/29 will explain the ongoing psi drop that exists aside from the noise (symptoms). Saying there is nothing wrong with the transmission is a misstatement at this time because it is still under investigation as to cause and effect, IMHO. Until those who are doing the actual testing of the problem provide more data, as I believe Kattywumpas intends to do in the near future, we can't draw any conclusions as to what damage, if any, is being done to the tractor/transmission.
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #284  
Hate to wake sleeping dogs but haven't seen an update in awhile and was wondering where this thing has gone? Kioti making any acknowledgements? Mine isn't as bad now that its's in the 50s here but I still heard it last week after running my grapple for a couple of hours. Not as pronounced or as long but still there. I mentioned it in passing to the dealer and he said he hadn't heard anything about it and not to worry about it as it was under warranty. Right.
RJJR
Thanks
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #285  
Last I spoke to my dealer he said essentially nothing new. It seem Kioti is completely ignoring this until all those with the problematic tractors are well off warranty. I've been meaning to contact Kioti directly about it since my dealer seems useless about pursuing it even when prompted. Thanks for reminding me and all the others it still needs resolution.
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #286  
Last I spoke to my dealer he said essentially nothing new. It seem Kioti is completely ignoring this until all those with the problematic tractors are well off warranty. I've been meaning to contact Kioti directly about it since my dealer seems useless about pursuing it even when prompted. Thanks for reminding me and all the others it still needs resolution.

this is not true. My dealer came to my place with a replacement hydraulic tube and replaced the metal hose with the rubber hose. Kioti has told them that the metal hose is causing resonance thru the metal tube.. a harmonic noise. The tube is supposed to eliminate this. Kioti supplied all the parts and is paying his labor to replace it.
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #287  
Glad to hear your problem is fixed. Do you know if they issued a service bulletin so all dealers could address it consistently? That would keep each owner from having to start from scratch on the issue. It's one of those items that is hard to explain and will be harder to duplicate at the dealership. I need an hour or two of fairly heavy work to make mine act up.
Thanks
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #288  
this is not true. My dealer came to my place with a replacement hydraulic tube and replaced the metal hose with the rubber hose. Kioti has told them that the metal hose is causing resonance thru the metal tube.. a harmonic noise. The tube is supposed to eliminate this. Kioti supplied all the parts and is paying his labor to replace it.

I beg to differ on this: it has been known about the hose replacement that Kioti literally drew up by hand on a piece of paper since the beginning of this thread. When I first contacted Kioti about it they sent the hand drawing to my dealer and he flat out refused to make it up and install it on my machine. He said it would NOT do anything to solve the underlying problem. Then we had the lengthy wait for TNewbern's solution to the problem, to which I'm not quite clear to what conclusion was drawn from his work but after that this thread stalled and has all but died since then. The hose in place of the metal tube may remove the squeal, but it is my understanding that it does NOT solve the underlying issue....but I COULD be wrong about this... At this point I'm somewhat confused if the problem is solved or still exists...:confused2::eek:
Anyone else care to shed light on the tunnel?
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #289  
I have followed this post since the start and early in the piece, posed the question "Who makes the transmission?"

The replies seem to suggest it is made by "Volvo" in Scandinavia.

This might sound naive, but how much expertise would you expect Kioti USA or Daedong Korea would have with troubleshooting and diagnosing a Daedong supplier's transmission problem.

I'm guessing that Daedong are just referring it to the Scandinavian manufacturer to get answers.

You would also think that the same manufacturer supplies transmissions to other CUT brands; if so have these transmissions displayed squealing?
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #290  
I too have been following this thread since the beginning. I am still not sure whether this squeal is simply a mountain being made from a mole hill or something of significance.

I understand that the sound is difficult to live with and needs to be corrected. Kioti claims to have done that by changing out a section of metal tubing for flexible tubing. Apparently that has mitigated the noxious sound in at least some if not most cases. That would be the mole hill version. Simply an annoyance which can be corrected with a simple modification. Problem solved.

However, for some owners of squealing tractors, the concern persists that the sound is an indication of something more fundementally wrong with the transmission. Hard to confirm that as none have failed yet but in theory if some abnormal internal wear is occuring failure could come later so that leaves the issue open. That is the mountain version. The flexible hose is a bandaid on a cancerous lesion and will not treat the underlying problem. Problem definitely not fixed.

We've had very little real data to help elucidate the problem. One member with seemingly good engineering skills did some pressure measurements that may or may not have been consistent with abnormal flow/pressure. For some odd reason after an initial flurry of interest he has not followed up. Perhaps subsequent investigation did not confirm initial readings or what were thought to be abnormal readings were within specs. Not sure, I for one am not an engineer and cannot interpret the significance of those findings.

Understandably, a lot of anxiety persists for some owners who do have squealing tractors. Unfortunately, as is typical of Korporate Kioti, the company has not publicly addressed the issue in a clear manner and has repeated the same nonresponsive customer service philosophy they demonstrated a few years ago with the cracked loader issue. That makes matters worse for those who are anxious about the squeal and understandably they remain unhappy. Unfortunately at least some are also sufficiently suspicious of the flexible hose modification repair that they conclude that modification is simply a cover up of some dread internal problem. Sometimes paranoia is justified after all.

My take on all of this to date: We should not blame the victim (those with squealing tractors), even if they are demonstrating an exaggerated concern and are refusing to accept the simple Kioti explanation that the problem really is simply the harmonics in the metal tube and nothing worse. Kioti needs to put out a formal service bulletin on the subject and commit to not only their suggested immediate repair, but also to extend some form of warranty on the transmission for those customers who require the flexible hose modification to control the noise. I recall that with the loader cracking issue, Kioti finally, after far too long a delay, finally made a public statement to owners and dealers and eventually got their act together with a reasonable service bulletin and repair program. Why Kioti cannot act more quickly to acknowledge these things before internet fueled rumors aggrevate the matter is beyond me. They clearly did not learn any corporate troubleshooting lessons from the loader issue. They persist in a hunker down in the fox hole mentality which only makes matters worse for all concerned. Someone at a very high level at Kioti needs a swift and sure kick in the arse to bring them into the 21st century of customer relations and crisis management. If real estate is all about location, location, location, then in this type of service problem the key to successful customer support and public relations is communicate, communicate, communicate. Somehow the big wigs at Kioti just don't seem able to understand that simple axiom.
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #291  
I have followed this post since the start and early in the piece, posed the question "Who makes the transmission?"

The replies seem to suggest it is made by "Volvo" in Scandinavia.

This might sound naive, but how much expertise would you expect Kioti USA or Daedong Korea would have with troubleshooting and diagnosing a Daedong supplier's transmission problem.

I'm guessing that Daedong are just referring it to the Scandinavian manufacturer to get answers.

You would also think that the same manufacturer supplies transmissions to other CUT brands; if so have these transmissions displayed squealing?

Here's a page from the DK35/40/45 workshop manual. It says it is a Kanzaki transmission. I think it is a Japanese company.
 

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/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #293  
Here's a page from the DK35/40/45 workshop manual. It says it is a Kanzaki transmission. I think it is a Japanese company.

It says that they are the pump manufacturer. Are they also the actual transmission manufacturer? It is unclear to me based on what the page lists...

Thanks,

CM
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #294  
From what I can tell from the picture a couple of pages over the HST hydraulic pump and hydraulic motor are in the same casting and come as a unit.

I can't find any reference to the manufacturer of the geared portion of the transmission. Of course, my practical knowledge of machinery is just slightly better than that of brain surgery.:eek: I could be reading this incorrectly.

If required I can upload a couple of pages tomorrow. But if you have the EX35 manual from the Australian site, it appears to be the same information as my DK35 manual.
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #296  
Island Tractor,
Sounds like the tail wagging the dog. What a nightmare. Time is of the essence with the transmissions, possibly more so than with loaders. A tractor will function with a cracked loader, but less well with a damaged or failing transmission.
I'd really like to get them on top of this situation but am not yet clear how best to go about doing so. Class action has been suggested as a concept, but premature threat of a lawsuit will likely cause more entrenchment and adversarial type behavior/outcome, which I see as being unproductive.
Thoughts?
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #297  
this is not true. My dealer came to my place with a replacement hydraulic tube and replaced the metal hose with the rubber hose. Kioti has told them that the metal hose is causing resonance thru the metal tube.. a harmonic noise. The tube is supposed to eliminate this. Kioti supplied all the parts and is paying his labor to replace it.

I work with an engineer who back several years ago worked on a squeal in a hydrostat steering system on New Holland combines. It was an harmonic problem issue also. It took awhile to find the right combo of tubes and hoses to fix the squeal.

Sounds like they have a fix and are taking care of it.:thumbsup:
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #298  
When I first contacted Kioti about it they sent the hand drawing to my dealer and he flat out refused to make it up and install it on my machine.

I got bogged down looking backwards at the posts on this discussion (there are quite a few on this one) so I'll just ask - Did you (could you) post a copy of the Kioti drawing?

I would really like to get this fixed before warranty expires.

Bob
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #299  
I also for one just believe that its simply a harmonic sound issue, and the steel pipes were causing this noise. By switching the pipe to rubber, this eliminated the issue. Its interesting to note that this noise only happened when the whether was cold and the fluids thinner. Didnt happen in colder climates. The power of the transmission wasnt affected by this.

I really believe some are making this out to be too great of an issue. I had a Ford Taurus that blew the transmission a little after 100,000 miles on it. When i took it to the transmission shop...the service tech told me flat out that nearly all older ford taurus's blew the tranny around 100,000 mi due to some plastic throw out parts in them. It was a known manufacturers defect and FORD did nothing to fix the old rigs or even acknowledge the issue... after 100,000 miles why should they.

MInd you Ford changed those parts in later rigs, but didnt repair the first vehicles affected. This is how ALL car companies react.

Even when my tractor made these noises, no effect on tractor was noticed. (ie harmonics again). Also nice to note that alot of Kubotas and even my neighbord JD HST unit are saying the same things about their HST trannies.
 
/ DK40SE Squeal When Moving in Reverse. #300  
I got bogged down looking backwards at the posts on this discussion (there are quite a few on this one) so I'll just ask - Did you (could you) post a copy of the Kioti drawing?

I would really like to get this fixed before warranty expires.

Bob

I have the drawing, somewhere, not sure exactly where at the moment so I'm searching through the first 10 or so pages to see if it was already posted by TNewbern.... feel free to do the same...start at page 10 and go forward, I'm at page 7 currently.
 

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