New built 3pt log splitter

[165masseyky]

by what you said above....you should be able to go the low cost route of bungee cording your valve in one direction. just make sure you use the right port for the way you move the lever. Then that hose from your tractors valve that you tie open goes to the splitter valve. the out hose from the splitter valve goes to the tank.......you just have to find a way into the tank. I'm not farmiliar with a 165 so I can't help you there but that selectable valve thingy sounds cool. this way you can select the 3pt when you want to lower or raise it and then switch back to the other valve to run the ram on the splitter. Unless you have a tractor pushing more than 12 gpm you should only need 1/2" hose. Is the 165 a big or small tractor?

56hp I would say mid sized

 

[brewdog]

I have been using ideas from this site for years and thought it was time to give back....not to mention a few people asked to see the projects. I taught myself how to weld this year. My first project was an extra spool valve off the power beyond and this splitter is my first real fab project. Thanks to everyone on here I didn't have to learn from my own mistakes.

I have About $300 in it. It has a 4 inch ram with a prince LSR 3060 valve run off the power beyond. I am extremely happy with it. I haven't had anything it won't split and with this valve it has a fast cycle time of around 11 sec. I found that I really only need the full pressure setting when the wedge initally splits the wood.

You built one heck of a nice splitter! Not to worry, your hydraulic cooler on your tractor will take care of any heat generated just like it does for the FEL. Enjoyed your creation and thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[J_J]

165masseyky,

I am not sure how your switch works for the hyd, but does it select either the 3pt or remote?

On my Kubota, I have a hyd block on the right side of my tractor that in one position, the fluid flows direct to the 3pt, and if you switch it to position 2, it sends the fluid out of block and to the log splitter and from the log splitter OUT, the flow goes back to the block and then on to the 3pt. If not using the log splitter, I connect the two hoses together. I leave my switch in position 2 for all operations.

Use same hose size as the ports on the valve, unless you want to decrease the flow. Use one size QD up to improve the flow.

 

[J_J]

I was meaning ID at 3/4 but I think 1/2 should be ok. I am using a 1973 165 with the perkins diesel. If I run my remotes I don't have 3pt now because the selector on the top cap only allows 3pt or aux. If I am understanding this correctly I can replace the remote valve I have with a valve that I have which has a PB port and run the splitter from the PB port without tieing my control lever back on the valve for the remotes I still wont have 3pt I don't think though. I will look for the return plug on my service manual and run the return from the splitter to there via a 1/2 ID line. Does that sound right?

You mentioned something about using a valve with out bungeeing the lever back, and it had PB. That new valve must have detent for set and forget.

If you new valve has PB, you need to determine if the plugs on your tractor will allow you to run a pressure hose and return hose from somewhere under the seat. If so, you probably can have log splitter and 3pt operation.

 

[bubbacuse77]

JJ- I think a light bulb came on today when I talked with one of the engineers from Prince Hyd. Let me explain and then I have a question.

I looped all the valves including the splitter valve through the power beyond circuit. the problem is obviously the fact that the splitter valve does not have a power beyond port (I made this suggestion and he thought it was a good Idea and might see a new valve soon). I started seeing a bit of fluid spit out the vents on the return detent and the pressure relief valve on the end of each stroke forward or back. He said this wasn't normal and that I probably had pressure on the return to tank side of the valve. Insert light bulb here. he even said that that new valve is only designed for 150lbs of pressure on the return side and even quick couplers could cause problems........nice.

Of course I have pressure on the back side because the rockshaft is under pressure holding the splitter of the ground. I guess I could live with it and run the risk of wrecking the valve eventually or figure something else out. the problem is that I really like to have the funtion of the three point when splitting to raise and lower the whole thing.

My question is:

If I ran the spitter valve through the port of the third funtion valve and bungee the valve open would I loose the function of the 3 pt. Also doesn't the return fluid from the splitter valve if hooked to the same 3rd function connections run back to the tank because the 3rd function valve in the tractor thinks it is just the return from a cylinder? If that is the case I can just run it through the third function and release the lever to use the 3pt. Might be a pain in the *** unless I make something other than a bungee to hold the 3rd function lever.

Hope that made sense?

Hope that made sense

 

[165masseyky]

165masseyky,

I am not sure how your switch works for the hyd, but does it select either the 3pt or remote?

On my Kubota, I have a hyd block on the right side of my tractor that in one position, the fluid flows direct to the 3pt, and if you switch it to position 2, it sends the fluid out of block and to the log splitter and from the log splitter OUT, the flow goes back to the block and then on to the 3pt. If not using the log splitter, I connect the two hoses together. I leave my switch in position 2 for all operations.

Use same hose size as the ports on the valve, unless you want to decrease the flow. Use one size QD up to improve the flow.

JJ-My tractor selector switch is the same one direction is 3pt the other is the remotes. I set the splitter up for QD and have to return the selector to 3pt for that to work. So your saying if I make a short connector to loop the two QD line of my remotes I can still use 3pt? If so that would require a closed center valve for the LS right to make a resistance for flow to build pressure back to the 3pt. My head hurts ughhhhhh

 

[J_J]

JJ-My tractor selector switch is the same one direction is 3pt the other is the remotes. I set the splitter up for QD and have to return the selector to 3pt for that to work. So your saying if I make a short connector to loop the two QD line of my remotes I can still use 3pt? If so that would require a closed center valve for the LS right to make a resistance for flow to build pressure back to the 3pt. My head hurts ughhhhhh

Do not even think of using closed center valves in an open center system.

The Kubota hyd block must be different than your hyd block, or not.

You might try this to check. Do you have a return port to the hyd block? If so, it would be logical for the fluid to leave the block and go to the back to a valve, and the OUT port for that valve would return the fluid to the block, and continue to the 3pt.

With my hyd block selected to position 2, the fluid is routed to the back to a log splitter valve, or if no log splitter valve, the two hoses are coupled together to complete the circuit. . The flow path is still there.

I believe you used a pressure port on the side of the tractor for the pressure supply to the remote valve. Where does the return for the remote go? Does it come back to the hyd block?

This is the logical routing for the fluid with a remote valve, and log splitter. Pump, loader, remote, 3pt. The log splitter will get it's fluid from the work port of the remote, and if the log splitter valve does not have PB, you are at some risk.

My opinion is that all valves in an open center hyd system should have PB to handle the high pressure that could result from a downstream valve causing the relief to operate, and that will develop high pressure through all valves in the hyd system.

 

[J_J]

JJ- I think a light bulb came on today when I talked with one of the engineers from Prince Hyd. Let me explain and then I have a question.

I looped all the valves including the splitter valve through the power beyond circuit. the problem is obviously the fact that the splitter valve does not have a power beyond port (I made this suggestion and he thought it was a good Idea and might see a new valve soon). I started seeing a bit of fluid spit out the vents on the return detent and the pressure relief valve on the end of each stroke forward or back. He said this wasn't normal and that I probably had pressure on the return to tank side of the valve. Insert light bulb here. he even said that that new valve is only designed for 150lbs of pressure on the return side and even quick couplers could cause problems........nice.

Of course I have pressure on the back side because the rockshaft is under pressure holding the splitter of the ground. I guess I could live with it and run the risk of wrecking the valve eventually or figure something else out. the problem is that I really like to have the funtion of the three point when splitting to raise and lower the whole thing.

My question is:

If I ran the spitter valve through the port of the third funtion valve and bungee the valve open would I loose the function of the 3 pt. Also doesn't the return fluid from the splitter valve if hooked to the same 3rd function connections run back to the tank because the 3rd function valve in the tractor thinks it is just the return from a cylinder? If that is the case I can just run it through the third function and release the lever to use the 3pt. Might be a pain in the *** unless I make something other than a bungee to hold the 3rd function lever.

Hope that made sense?

Hope that made sense

The 3pt valve is not under pressure, as the pressure is contained in the cyl. The spool in the neutral position closes off the cyl fluid, and pump flow is still flowing through the 3pt valve.

The fluid from the pump flows to the tank through the 3pt valve in neutral.

Some people connect valves any way they can, but there is a right way and the other way, and I hope this cr*p works.

Does your remote have a detent kit avaliable?

 

[165masseyky]

Do not even think of using closed center valves in an open center system.

The Kubota hyd block must be different than your hyd block, or not.

You might try this to check. Do you have a return port to the hyd block? If so, it would be logical for the fluid to leave the block and go to the back to a valve, and the OUT port for that valve would return the fluid to the block, and continue to the 3pt.

With my hyd block selected to position 2, the fluid is routed to the back to a log splitter valve, or if no log splitter valve, the two hoses are coupled together to complete the circuit. . The flow path is still there.

I believe you used a pressure port on the side of the tractor for the pressure supply to the remote valve. Where does the return for the remote go? Does it come back to the hyd block?

This is the logical routing for the fluid with a remote valve, and log splitter. Pump, loader, remote, 3pt. The log splitter will get it's fluid from the work port of the remote, and if the log splitter valve does not have PB, you are at some risk.

My opinion is that all valves in an open center hyd system should have PB to handle the high pressure that could result from a downstream valve causing the relief to operate, and that will develop high pressure through all valves in the hyd system.

I will look again tomorrow and make sure but if memory serves here is the set up on my tractor. A small aluminum block on the top right side of the lift cover plate has two lines coming from it. Both lines go into a single spool valve mounted on the tractor fender then two lines coming out of the SSV go to the rear of the tractor as the QD's. This set up was on the tractor when I purchased it. I have no clue if the valve is closed or open centered. I tried tieing the lever on the valve back to get pressure to the cylinder for the splitter and got pressure from one QD only no matter which way the SSV on the tractor fender was moved..

 

[165masseyky]

Do not even think of using closed center valves in an open center system.

The Kubota hyd block must be different than your hyd block, or not.

You might try this to check. Do you have a return port to the hyd block? If so, it would be logical for the fluid to leave the block and go to the back to a valve, and the OUT port for that valve would return the fluid to the block, and continue to the 3pt.

With my hyd block selected to position 2, the fluid is routed to the back to a log splitter valve, or if no log splitter valve, the two hoses are coupled together to complete the circuit. . The flow path is still there.

I believe you used a pressure port on the side of the tractor for the pressure supply to the remote valve. Where does the return for the remote go? Does it come back to the hyd block?

This is the logical routing for the fluid with a remote valve, and log splitter. Pump, loader, remote, 3pt. The log splitter will get it's fluid from the work port of the remote, and if the log splitter valve does not have PB, you are at some risk.

My opinion is that all valves in an open center hyd system should have PB to handle the high pressure that could result from a downstream valve causing the relief to operate, and that will develop high pressure through all valves in the hyd system.

Ok time to put ths to bed here is exactly how my Hydraulics are ran maybe this will help to figure this out. I just want to make sure nothing is going to fail due to plumbing.

 

[J_J]

The way to prove the logic, is to put the switch in the aux position, and see if the 3pt will raise . If it does, that means the fluid is routed through the block to the remote valve, then the log splitter and then to the 3pt.

It is just not smart to have a remote valve and not be able to use the 3pt.

If for instance you had a hyd flail on your tractor, you need a valve to provide flow to the flail and the ability to lift it.

I believe the hyd block works like this. With no remote valve, the switch is set to 3pt, and plugs are installed .

Once you install a remote valve, the switch is switched to aux, and it remains there as long as you have the remote valve.

If you ever remove the remote valve, and plug the ports on the hyd block, you must switch back to 3pt, or you will deadhead the pump.

If your remote valve does not have PB, then you putting the remote valve at risk.

Can you confirm what I have said?

 

[J_J]

bubbacuse77,

To answer your question about operating the 3pt with the log splitter running.

If you bungee the remotes, and if your log splitter valve hose are plugged into the ports of the remote, the fluid flows from the pump, to loader valve, to remote valve, to log splitter valve, from log splitter valve back to to remote valve, then to 3pt valve.

If the log splitter is not plugged in, the fluid has the same path as above except the log splitter.

You should be able to use the 3pt any time.

Again, the remote valve and the log splitter valve is at risk because of the back pressure, that is if no PB option on the valves.

 

[bubbacuse77]

bubbacuse77,

To answer your question about operating the 3pt with the log splitter running.

If you bungee the remotes, and if your log splitter valve hose are plugged into the ports of the remote, the fluid flows from the pump, to loader valve, to remote valve, to log splitter valve, from log splitter valve back to to remote valve, then to 3pt valve.

If the log splitter is not plugged in, the fluid has the same path as above except the log splitter.

You should be able to use the 3pt any time.

Again, the remote valve and the log splitter valve is at risk because of the back pressure, that is if no PB option on the valves.

Well I guess the with my current setup of going off the power beyond I only have backpressure on the splitter valve when i raise or lower the 3pt so I wouldn't be gaining anything. I was thinking that the factory 3rd function valve on the tractor has a power beyond port that flows through to the 3pt. This way the 3rd function valve doesn't get backpressure damage from the 3pt.

 

[165masseyky]

bubbacuse77,

To answer your question about operating the 3pt with the log splitter running.

If you bungee the remotes, and if your log splitter valve hose are plugged into the ports of the remote, the fluid flows from the pump, to loader valve, to remote valve, to log splitter valve, from log splitter valve back to to remote valve, then to 3pt valve.

If the log splitter is not plugged in, the fluid has the same path as above except the log splitter.

You should be able to use the 3pt any time.

Again, the remote valve and the log splitter valve is at risk because of the back pressure, that is if no PB option on the valves.[/QU

Both lines going to my fender mounted remote valve come from the selector valve on the lift cover plate. The 3pt hitch only works when the lever is in 3pt position no matter if the lever is bungeed back or not. So that being said i am just waiting on a gift card to arrive for the belt driven pump I just returned to Northern Tool at the tune of $538 so I am going to immediately order the prince 3060 lsr splitter valve. The valve I have on it now like I said in an earlier post was a Macro remote valve that is made to be the main remote valve for a tractor and is very well built and has PB. So should I replace my current fender mounted valve with that valve? The one on my tractor now does not have PB. And then run a line from the power beyond port to the splitter via a QD. And on a lighter note I was very happy today when I tried my first test run with the splitter to test my welds and mechanism before dis-assembly for 3pt mounting and paint. Worked great even with the perkins diesel at dead idle it never even made a whimper jump pushed right through. The wedge I made out of a side cutter for a Cat loader worked awesome and with the single beveled edge made for a fast dump of pressure after the initial split.

 

[J_J]

If you have a new valve that has PB that you want to use as a remote, go ahead and use it.

You could connect the log splitter IN port to the PB on the remote, and the log splitter OUT port would connect to the hyd block, but you will not have the log splitter installed all the time, and then you would have to connect a short jumper hose where the log splitter connected.

I would use the work ports on the remote for your splitter. The PB port would go back to the side of the tractor. The OUT port of the log splitter should go to tank.

Do you have a hyd schematic for your tractor? I sure would like to take a look at it.

I may try and find a Massey dealer here in Jacksonville and maybe get a schematic from them.

Can you determine if the hyd fluid from your remotes is dumping directly into the tank via the side port on the tractor?

 

[165masseyky]

If you have a new valve that has PB that you want to use as a remote, go ahead and use it.

You could connect the log splitter IN port to the PB on the remote, and the log splitter OUT port would connect to the hyd block, but you will not have the log splitter installed all the time, and then you would have to connect a short jumper hose where the log splitter connected.

I would use the work ports on the remote for your splitter. The PB port would go back to the side of the tractor. The OUT port of the log splitter should go to tank.

Do you have a hyd schematic for your tractor? I sure would like to take a look at it.

I may try and find a Massey dealer here in Jacksonville and maybe get a schematic from them.

Can you determine if the hyd fluid from your remotes is dumping directly into the tank via the side port on the tractor?

Thanks JJ I have been reading at a frantic pace my self. Here is what I have learned about the hydraulic system. The valve on the lift cover plate is an isolation valve. You either have 3pt or aux not both. The return line of the QD also goes into a port on the isolation valve so I am not sure if it goes through the pump or dumps direct to the tank.I agree the return for the splitter needs to go into the tank but for the life of me I can't nail down where to do that and to be honest I am afraid to just plumb into a port for fear of back pressuring the pump. I have the service manual for my tractor I am going to look for a hydraulic schematic if I find it I will post it but you please do the same so we both can know for sure. I am going to look for a valve that would make use of both 3pt and aux at the same time but may have to just deal with it like this. Again thanks and if you run down a port location for the tank let me know. Again thanks for you support. You da man!!!!

 

[J_J]

Some people just modify the tank fill cap to accept a hose.

 

[165masseyky]

Some people just modify the tank fill cap to accept a hose.

Thats what I am doing tomorrow. However I have hit a small snag. I don't know if I should feel good my welds held and the I beam twisted or feel bad that my design worked well but my material choice sucked. Gonna have to break out the cutting leads and buy a new H beam this time I am gonna go for 8x8x1/2x1/2. If it twists that then i have issues. The system still works well just don't like seeing that beam trying to roll over. I am thinking if the beam was on a front leg stand that would not be an issue instead of floating in mid air on the 3pt. But none the less I have uncovered a nice beefy H beam instead of an I beam an we are gonna have another go.

 

[165masseyky]

Some people just modify the tank fill cap to accept a hose.

The new prince lsr 3060 will be here tomorrow or Friday. I incresed to 1/2" H Beam tractors flow is at 3.8gpm at idle with 2250psi new 3.5"x1.5"x24" cylinder all new lines running from new PB valve on tractor with return in modified tranny fill cap I will get some pics soon. And specs.

 

[165masseyky]

About combining flows. The logic is there because you can combine several pump flows together to increase GPM's.

A 7 GPM pump plus a 3 GPM pump will produce 10 GPM.

Does your tractor have a separate pump for the steering, or does it have a priority valve and one pump for the steering, and main flow.

If you have two pump flows, a selector valve and a check valve can switch the steering fluid to add to the main flow.

If you have the priority circuit for steering, a selector valve can switch the steering flow to add to the main flow.

JJ.
Can you show me a schematic on how I should tie into the power steering pump and what type of valves I need to do this. It would be greatly appreciated even if its just a pen to paper drawing.