Water Wagon Tow Capacity

[mdelmarcelle]

One more thought. If you're concerned about the weight on the slopes, start your watering at the lowest point on your property. As you move to higher elevations, you'll be going up instead of down, which should be safer. And the trailer will go down in weight as you water, with it being empty towards the end, when you have to move back down the hill. (This idea works well if you can step up in elevation progressively and fill the tank at the lowest point).

 

[Smallplot]

Do you have access to any trailer that you can load up with some sort of weight and experiment with? Might give you a sense for what you can comfortably handle on your property.

And I concur with the folks that disagreed with the claim you are not able to pull anything heavier than your tractor. Think of semi's on the road. Their trailers typically weigh much more than the tractor. While the weight of the trailer is typically partially transfered to the rear axles of the truck.

Load distribution of the cargo is distributed equally onto the truck and trailer with even a small portion being transfered to the steering axles. This is accomplished by the driver's ability to slid his axles on the trailer and 5th wheel plate to maintain this weight distribution. A semi tractor is designed with the intent to safely pull 80,000 pounds in its operating environment but it can move a lot more. This is comparing apples to oranges but i understand what you are trying to say even though I still disagree with it. There is no way to distribute the load this way with a tractor and hitch pin. I know a tractor can pull something heavier than itself but in considering the way he explained his property would keep the trailer as light as possible to avoid any problems.

 

[AxleHub]

I'm not a farm guy, but I do know something about trailering.
As yet I haven't seen anyone comment about 4 specific issues:

1. If you have remote brakes( electric, hydraulic, pneumatic) on the trailer/wagon, then you have a much different scenario than with a single point pull hitch bar.

2. If you fill the container/containers COMPLETELY so there is no sloshing of fluid you have a different condition. Any sloshing movement changes you towing ratio by 25% or more( fluid movement slosh % has a doubling lateral gravity force).

3. Slope angle plays a part, but friction ratio and SIDE ANGLE movement is far more important. In other words wet grass or loose sand is much difference than dry dirt. Going straight vertical to the angle is MUCH DIFFERENT THAN GOING AT ANY SIDE ANGLE DIRECTION WITH A SINGLE POINT HITCH.

4 lastly, tow bx width is 44 inches so tip stability on anything with a raised height trailer is an issue for weight ratios. Very low trailer bed height is a big issue when maximizing weight distribution - especially without remote brakes.

If it were me, I 'd haul no more than 2 55 gallon barrels on their sides filled to the brim with each chocked so they can not shift or move.

 

[RaydaKub]

I have mowed a hill for several years that my kids used for sledding. I go into a free fall on it in some places. First time it happened shook me, then it got to be kind of fun. But that was without a trailer at all. So any trailer for me would be a killer. (My Kubota in 4WD doesn't break free, just the little green thing I used to have). But there is no set answer here as others have pointed out. Is the grass or dirt wet and slippery? Can you define the grade? What tires are you using?

There are a whole bunch of variables here that could change between today and tomorrow. The answer to the size of the trailer might also.

 

[keyman1808]

As AxelHub stated, Make sure it has its own independant braking system to increase safety. It increases your costs but that added cost could save the operators life.

 

[NevadaMOGuy]

Thanks for all the replies.

My manual says that Trailer Loading Weight Max Capacity is 1765 lbs and in a side note mentions that = Trailer Loading Weight....The max. loading weight for trailer (without trailer's weight)

Also Max. Hitch Load is 550 lbs.

 

[AxleHub]

My manual says that Trailer Loading Weight Max Capacity is 1765 lbs and in a side note mentions that = Trailer Loading Weight....The max. loading weight for trailer (without trailer's weight)

Also Max. Hitch Load is 550 lbs.

A logical statement - however, and this is a big however - I bet the manual also states that these numbers are for suggested guidance and that they do not serve as a universal statement of use.

In addition, I bet it says all users must consider conditions and distribution in the use of any hauling/trailering due to speed, slope, or surface.

Can't have one part of the manu as l without the other.

 

[LD1]

SO if I understand that right, you are able to pull a trailer with a max payload capacity of 1765lbs, and you are allowed to load it to the max right??? with 550lbs on the drawbar.

Have you considered making your own watering trailer. I am not sure what all is involved, but is sounds as if you are watering trees and such.

A cheap solution would be to get a small trailor like @ TSC that has a max payload of 1765. And since you would be allowd to put that much weight on it, get one of them 250gallon totes like are all over c-list. They are cheap and only weigh ~120lbs. So you would be able to load it with 1645lbs of water...or about 200 gallons:thumbsup:

Then just get a bell reducer for the 2" ball valve at the bottom and connect it to a garden hose and use gravity feed...no pumps required:thumbsup:

 

[mdelmarcelle]

Thanks for all the replies.

My manual says that Trailer Loading Weight Max Capacity is 1765 lbs and in a side note mentions that = Trailer Loading Weight....The max. loading weight for trailer (without trailer's weight)

Also Max. Hitch Load is 550 lbs.

My Kubota M7040 manual has the same type of language. Indicates it can pull a trailer with 11,000lb load (not including the trailer weight). So, I guess that means I can pull an 80,000lb train car, but I just can't put more than 11,000lbs on it.

 

[radioman]

hmm I am gonna add :2cents:.

With 20 acres and your desire to water things and use your BX, perhaps its time to build a custom trailer for safety for the long run?
I would say if money is no object, I'd get a horizontal leg style 200 gal tank. Put it on a low profile custom built trailer with tires as wide as possible, far apart as possible for stability with electric brakes. install a brake controller on BX like you would with a car and operate with your hand manually and you should be ok in 4WD turtle gear.

 

[LD1]

My Kubota M7040 manual has the same type of language. Indicates it can pull a trailer with 11,000lb load (not including the trailer weight). So, I guess that means I can pull an 80,000lb train car, but I just can't put more than 11,000lbs on it.

I think what they are getting at, is you can tow an 11k trailer loaded to the max. Since they have GOT to be taking the trailer weight into account, they are probabally just assuming that most 11k trailers will weigh roughly the same.

And as in the OP' case, they are probabally assuming a set weight for a 1700lb capacity trailer. And factoring that in. Considering there souldnt be a whole lot of weight difference in the various different trailers of that size.

In YOUR case, they are probabally basing it on a 14k or 16k trailer, figuring the trailer weight makes up the difference.

But I could be totally wrong too. Maybe you can indeed (according to kubota) pull an 80k trailer as long as you keep the load under 11k.

 

[Reg]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the quick replies.

Smallplot, I see your reasoning but I think 60 gallons of water might be a bit to conservative for the BX-25.

60 gallons at 8.34 pounds is around 500 pounds. I think the backhoe itself weighs more than that.

The little hoe is FIXED and becomes (almost) an integral PART of the tractor's mass.
The added weight is BEHIND the rear axle, so it exerts more than it's actual mass on the rear tires.

60 gallons - or FAR WORSE 40 gallons in a 60 gallon tank - slopping around on the hook is going to be a very different story.

Your money, your choice, your destiny (your azz at risk),,, but I wouldn't.

 

[Smallplot]

I just looked at the link for the Kiser Wagons. If you click on their Models/Specs tab and scroll down to the section marked Min Tractor HP (Level Terrain) is shows 20HP 4wd for the 200gal and 25HP 4wd for the 300 gal models. And that is on LEVEL TERRAIN.
As far as if the BX25 can pull larger trailers, I can push or pull a car (using man power) sitting on a flat parking lot, If that same car is in a yard, I still may be able to depending on how much it sinks in, but i would not be able to push or pull it up very much of a hill without someone helping me.
Just because I can pull or push the car don't mean I should, that is what tow straps and chains are for.......
In other words just because you can pull a larger trailer doesn't mean you should.

 

[NevadaMOGuy]

I just looked at the link for the Kiser Wagons. If you click on their Models/Specs tab and scroll down to the section marked Min Tractor HP (Level Terrain) is shows 20HP 4wd for the 200gal and 25HP 4wd for the 300 gal models. And that is on LEVEL TERRAIN.

Good catch.

The Kubota BX-25 is a 23 Hp beast but my 54" Sears Craftman riding lawn mower is 26 Hp and I can pick the back end up a bit to get unstuck when it gets high centered.:confused3:

 

[RaydaKub]

The Kubota BX-25 is a 23 Hp beast but my 54" Sears Craftman riding lawn mower is 26 Hp and I can pick the back end up a bit to get unstuck when it gets high centered.:

You said it, but you didn't even notice it yourself. Your BX-25 is a beast. Your Sears is "a riding lawn mower". I bet the BX weighs 3 times what the Sears does.

I've seen a front wheel drive mini van pull a 22' tandem axle camper. I can't say I've ever seen it try to stop however. Horsepower, especially in this respect, is totally meaningless.

 

[Smallplot]

Good catch.

The Kubota BX-25 is a 23 Hp beast but my 54" Sears Craftman riding lawn mower is 26 Hp and I can pick the back end up a bit to get unstuck when it gets high centered.:confused3:

There are several different ways Mfg's figure HP. With your Craftsman Lawn Tractor, it is more than likely figured at the deck for turning the blades (kind of like pto HP on a tractor). Where your BX will be figured in actual engine HP reaching rear wheels (just guessing here as I am not acquainted with either the Craftsman or Kubota way of figuring HP but sure someone on here can describe methods better). For instance your BX if equipped with PTO will have two HP ratings, one for engine HP and a second rating for PTO HP. The PTO HP is always lower than engine HP.
Secondly your craftsman was designed to mow yards and has the frame and tranny suited for that purpose. Your Kubota is designed to do more strenuous work, such as FEL or Backhoe work. Your Kubota has a frame and tranny suited for that purpose, thus your Kubota is built heavier and weighs more.

Hope this sheds a little light on the subject and if I am wrong, someone will surely point it out. :thumbsup:

 

[NevadaMOGuy]

. For instance your BX if equipped with PTO will have two HP ratings, one for engine HP and a second rating for PTO HP. The PTO HP is always lower than engine HP.

The specifications page shows that the tractor engine rated rpms are 3200 with an engine gross hp of 23.

The rear pto rpm is 540 and the mid pto is 2500, but they don't say what the hp is.

So it looks like 200 gallon water wagon is easily doable and a 300 is on the outer edge of doable...on level ground.

I get the sloshing around thing. I won't be on any roads...all on pasture grass.
My pasture grass doesn't feel level. Just driving across it and you are kinda "bouncing" from all the little tuffs of grass and ground imperfections...so I guess my pasture has a lot of built in small speed bumps. :laughing:

 

[LD1]

HP is a calculation of work. Force/Time.

IF the craftsman has more HP, then it is capable of doing more work. OR, doing equal work in less time.

I know that is a hard concept to grasp. But HP factors time in. HP is NOT a measure of what can and cannot be done. Your tractor (BX) will simply do things the craftsman wont. Mainly due to size and gearing. BUT again, the craftsman can do more in less time.

I'll give you an example. My ZTR is 27HP. Your BX is 23. I can assure you that I can mow at a faster ground speed with the engine bogging less IF the same size deck and same blade speed is used.

 

[Smallplot]

Good luck. Besides one of the trailers you had referenced earlier I might suggest a cheap trailer from tractor supply and get the latest tank you can find. Keep it low to the ground as possible. If I understand you right, just watering trees, gravity flow will be fine and a pump really is not needed. That is putting water onto the ground at base of trees if I understand correctly. This would help keep the trailer weight down and if you find your BX has problems just replace the tank with a smaller one. A trailer, some hose, connectors, and a water tank would be cheaper than the trailer in your post.

 

[AxleHub]

HP is a calculation of work. Force/Time.

IF the craftsman has more HP, then it is capable of doing more work. OR, doing equal work in less time.

I know that is a hard concept to grasp. But HP factors time in. HP is NOT a measure of what can and cannot be done. Your tractor (BX) will simply do things the craftsman wont. Mainly due to size and gearing. BUT again, the craftsman can do more in less time.

I'll give you an example. My ZTR is 27HP. Your BX is 23. I can assure you that I can mow at a faster ground speed with the engine bogging less IF the same size deck and same blade speed is used.

The factor missed in your post, is torque.
Using your example of the ztr vs the bx. If yours is gas and 27 hp your actual cutting performance would be different than a 27 hp diesel. Why? Because horsepower is measured mostly in an unloaded condition. A loaded condition is reality.

Example - same deck widths but one is cutting 3 inch bluegrass and then cutting 5 inch bluegrass. Big difference in performance speed and numbers because TORQUE is different than hp.