Buying a 3 point hitch disc

[Chief65043]

I've got a 5055 John Deere and am considering buying a King Kutter 6.5 Foot Box Frame Disc Harrow to work on my food plots. Any experiences with the durability of this particular Kink Kutter disc? I've read some reviews that caution on the durability particularly the welds. My farm terrain is slightly sloped and has quite a few rocks.

 

[jenkinsph]

There are lots of good equipment manufacturers out there but I have looked at these and like them. I like the TH series with pillow block bearings and would consider the 20 or 22" blade model, it is offered in a 6'8" size.

Agriculture TH Series Tandem Discs - Monroe Tufline

 

[bullbreaker]

There are lots of good equipment manufacturers out there but I have looked at these and like them. I like the TH series with pillow block bearings and would consider the 20 or 22" blade model, it is offered in a 6'8" size.
Agriculture TH Series Tandem Discs - Monroe Tufline

:thumbsup:
Agree ! Lots of other brands out there for a little extra money.(a@b eagle-line,leinbach,Howse,Landpride,etc).
I could be wrong but some frontier disc might be made by Monroe/Tuff.
Also "Chief" every King Krutter,Countyline,disc I have ever seen "in person" has round disc in rears not serrated knotched discs like on front.Even though here on TBN site I have seen King Krutters with rear knotched disc.Not saying ones better than others I hear they both have there pro's and con's.
Have you also checked on Craigslist for a good used one ?

Boone

 

[1GB]

I've read many concerns about the angle-frame model and better reviews of the box-frame model. I bought one used recently. The welds looked decent and the weight was impressive. The guy before me claimed to do ~150 acres with it over 6 years. I checked it over and the unit had no repairs. I have only had the chance to work about an acre of plots and another 1/2 acre worth of test areas just to see how well it'd work.

On previously worked ground without tall vegetation it worked great in a single pass.

On previously worked ground with weeds over knee high, it sort of worked, but I decided it'd be better to hook up the mower and disc in a single pass afterwards.

On non-worked ground that was short cover, I was impressed with how well it worked.

Based on my research I think it's a great value overall for what it is. A 3pt of this size is seemingly trendy these days. I could find a bunch of 12'-14' transport discs of name brands for only slightly more than I paid, but there just a bit large for a 40-50HP tractor.

I think it will hold up for you unless you're really ramming it at fast speeds through the rocks or making tight turns with it still in the ground.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The secret to success with ANY disc is lbs per blade....Obviously, the heavier, the better they'll work. Old school thinking used to be having disc blades about 6" apart. Later on, they moved 'em out to 7" +. Some larger disc's will have 9" or even 11" spacings. Typically, the wider the spacing, the larger diameter the blades SHOULD be. Larger diameter blades will also typically have more "dish" to them.

Just about all "modern day" 3-point disc's are set with 7-1/2" disc spacings, although I've seen a few with 6-1/2". A very few will have 9" spacings. Those are generally (but not always) higher end heavy duty models. Most old "drag disc's" had narrow spaced blades. They tended to try to roll on top of the ground rather than IN the ground, creating the false sensation of being "easy to pull"....In fact they ARE easier to pull, but at the expense of not working very deep. Simple "fizzix" tells us that the less work you're doing the easier it is/the MORE work you're doing the more effort it requires....

Frame weight is somewhat relative to frame strength (but not as a hard and fast rule...) As with ANY ground engaging tool, there is a great deal of stress and frame loading when working. In many cases, BOLTED frames will allow some flexing without cracking welds. WELDED frames are so rigid, there's just not any "give" in most cases. With that. welded frames CAN crack.

Also worth attention is the upper 3-point structure. With mounted tillage tools, they tend to want to rotate up and over the lower link pins.....That puts top link and upper 3-point structure of the disc in compression. I've seen a few instances where the strut running from the top link attach point down to the rear of the disc will bend or buckle, allowing the rear of the disc to raise up (and over) When applying extra ballast on a disc, it's good to equally distribute the weight front to rear for this reason. Putting all the weight on the front of the disc frame will compound the problem in many cases.

Without a doubt, the best 3-point disc I've ever been around is an old design....The Massey Ferguson #25. It has enough built in weight, and is well balanced, so it does a great job without piling on additional weights.

3-point disc's, if set correctly and weighted sufficiently will do an excellent job. Their rigid frame levels better than a flexible frame (such as was common on older drag type and some early wheel disc's with floating gangs) After all, it's about doing the best job, not creating the easiest way to spend time....

Just make certain the frame is strong enough to handle additional ballast (if needed) and you have enough lift capacity to handle a ballasted disc.

Notched blades have an advantage when tearing up hard soils/turf. They have a DISadvantage with regards to strength and wear. If you have a lot of rocks, notched blades are more prone to breaking than solid blades. Also, with less metal to begin with, notched blades will wear down quicker. It's a common practice to put notched blades on the front gangs and solids on the rear as sort of a compromise. (As I have done on all 3 of my disc's......MF25 3-point, IH350 wheel , IH496 wheel)

Roller bearing/ball bearing disc's are great IF YOU HAVE SEALED BEARINGS....Open roller bearings need constant attention. Cast iron "boxings" can continue to function way beyond the point when wear is beginning to show. I've seen boxings with 1/2" of wear still operating with no issues. Just pump 'em full of grease before each days use and life goes on.

 

[KYDan]

The secret to success with ANY disc is lbs per blade....Obviously, the heavier, the better they'll work. Old school thinking used to be having disc blades about 6" apart. Later on, they moved 'em out to 7" +. Some larger disc's will have 9" or even 11" spacings. Typically, the wider the spacing, the larger diameter the blades SHOULD be. Larger diameter blades will also typically have more "dish" to them.

Just about all "modern day" 3-point disc's are set with 7-1/2" disc spacings, although I've seen a few with 6-1/2". A very few will have 9" spacings. Those are generally (but not always) higher end heavy duty models. Most old "drag disc's" had narrow spaced blades. They tended to try to roll on top of the ground rather than IN the ground, creating the false sensation of being "easy to pull"....In fact they ARE easier to pull, but at the expense of not working very deep. Simple "fizzix" tells us that the less work you're doing the easier it is/the MORE work you're doing the more effort it requires....

Frame weight is somewhat relative to frame strength (but not as a hard and fast rule...) As with ANY ground engaging tool, there is a great deal of stress and frame loading when working. In many cases, BOLTED frames will allow some flexing without cracking welds. WELDED frames are so rigid, there's just not any "give" in most cases. With that. welded frames CAN crack.

Also worth attention is the upper 3-point structure. With mounted tillage tools, they tend to want to rotate up and over the lower link pins.....That puts top link and upper 3-point structure of the disc in compression. I've seen a few instances where the strut running from the top link attach point down to the rear of the disc will bend or buckle, allowing the rear of the disc to raise up (and over) When applying extra ballast on a disc, it's good to equally distribute the weight front to rear for this reason. Putting all the weight on the front of the disc frame will compound the problem in many cases.

Without a doubt, the best 3-point disc I've ever been around is an old design....The Massey Ferguson #25. It has enough built in weight, and is well balanced, so it does a great job without piling on additional weights.

3-point disc's, if set correctly and weighted sufficiently will do an excellent job. Their rigid frame levels better than a flexible frame (such as was common on older drag type and some early wheel disc's with floating gangs) After all, it's about doing the best job, not creating the easiest way to spend time....

Just make certain the frame is strong enough to handle additional ballast (if needed) and you have enough lift capacity to handle a ballasted disc.

Notched blades have an advantage when tearing up hard soils/turf. They have a DISadvantage with regards to strength and wear. If you have a lot of rocks, notched blades are more prone to breaking than solid blades. Also, with less metal to begin with, notched blades will wear down quicker. It's a common practice to put notched blades on the front gangs and solids on the rear as sort of a compromise. (As I have done on all 3 of my disc's......MF25 3-point, IH350 wheel , IH496 wheel)

Roller bearing/ball bearing disc's are great IF YOU HAVE SEALED BEARINGS....Open roller bearings need constant attention. Cast iron "boxings" can continue to function way beyond the point when wear is beginning to show. I've seen boxings with 1/2" of wear still operating with no issues. Just pump 'em full of grease before each days use and life goes on.

I totally agree with Farm with junk about the old MF25, I had a set and let them get away from me which was a big mistake. I bought a new set of the King Kutter discs and returned them to the dealer as for my use they were unsatisfactory. If you find a set of the old MF discs and they are in decent shape you won't find a better cutting harrow, however, a lot of them you find on the used lots are pretty ragged out and will require some work to be useful. Replacing the discs can be something of a chore. I am looking for a good set of 3pt. harrows in the 7' range and following this thread. I found a local used dealer that has a set of the MF 25's, but they are rough and I don't want to refurbish them. Is anyone aware of new harrows that approach the effectiveness of the old Masseys?

 

[Bartcephus]

How about some advice on the angle adjustment of the gangs.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

How about some advice on the angle adjustment of the gangs.

Not every brand of disc will work the same way, but with all of 'em I've ever used, they seem to work best with the front gang set one notch less than fully "aggressive" and the rear gang TWO notches less than full tilt..... Set fully aggressive, they seem to dig plenty well enough, but leave the ground too out of level for my benefit. And personally, I prefer front and rear gangs to be operating at the same depth. Usually, front gangs will try to dig in and rears raise up to where the rear isn't as deep. That'll throw more dirt towards the outside than what the rear will bring back towards the center (if that makes any sense...) Play with speed to see what nets the best results too. I prefer 4-1/2 to 5mph in most cases. Too slow and you get little soil action. Too fast and the disc will try to ride on top of the ground instead of digging.

Long story short, I like th eresults from a good RIGID FRAME disc, running level side to side and front to rear, with gangs set not quite as aggressive as the maximum settings.

 

[bjr]

Plenty of good advice has been given. All that I will add is that I owned the 6-1/2' KK Disc for nearly 7 yrs and it hasn't crack or broken yet although I did replace a couple of bearings and I bought them from Agri-Supply. My experience is exactly what one of the posters said about previously worked ground. My last job was for a neighbor that had raised corn this year and wanted the ground ready to plant some kind of grass. Well I went over it twice and left, the fellow came to my house later and wanted me to do more, he said it wasn't soft enough and the harrow didn't go deep enough. I had told previous to starting the work that depending on how the disc cut that it might take rototilling after the disc, but, that would be extra. and I repeated what I had said earlier that I did primary tillage and secondary with the tiller would cost him extra. He went away mad. I do think get the heaviest disc you can find that you can pull with your tractor. bjr

 

[RJJR]

The secret to success with ANY disc is lbs per blade....Obviously, the heavier, the better they'll work. Old school thinking used to be having disc blades about 6" apart. Later on, they moved 'em out to 7" +. Some larger disc's will have 9" or even 11" spacings. Typically, the wider the spacing, the larger diameter the blades SHOULD be. Larger diameter blades will also typically have more "dish" to them.

Just about all "modern day" 3-point disc's are set with 7-1/2" disc spacings, although I've seen a few with 6-1/2". A very few will have 9" spacings. Those are generally (but not always) higher end heavy duty models. Most old "drag disc's" had narrow spaced blades. They tended to try to roll on top of the ground rather than IN the ground, creating the false sensation of being "easy to pull"....In fact they ARE easier to pull, but at the expense of not working very deep. Simple "fizzix" tells us that the less work you're doing the easier it is/the MORE work you're doing the more effort it requires....

Frame weight is somewhat relative to frame strength (but not as a hard and fast rule...) As with ANY ground engaging tool, there is a great deal of stress and frame loading when working. In many cases, BOLTED frames will allow some flexing without cracking welds. WELDED frames are so rigid, there's just not any "give" in most cases. With that. welded frames CAN crack.

Also worth attention is the upper 3-point structure. With mounted tillage tools, they tend to want to rotate up and over the lower link pins.....That puts top link and upper 3-point structure of the disc in compression. I've seen a few instances where the strut running from the top link attach point down to the rear of the disc will bend or buckle, allowing the rear of the disc to raise up (and over) When applying extra ballast on a disc, it's good to equally distribute the weight front to rear for this reason. Putting all the weight on the front of the disc frame will compound the problem in many cases.

Without a doubt, the best 3-point disc I've ever been around is an old design....The Massey Ferguson #25. It has enough built in weight, and is well balanced, so it does a great job without piling on additional weights.

3-point disc's, if set correctly and weighted sufficiently will do an excellent job. Their rigid frame levels better than a flexible frame (such as was common on older drag type and some early wheel disc's with floating gangs) After all, it's about doing the best job, not creating the easiest way to spend time....

Just make certain the frame is strong enough to handle additional ballast (if needed) and you have enough lift capacity to handle a ballasted disc.

Notched blades have an advantage when tearing up hard soils/turf. They have a DISadvantage with regards to strength and wear. If you have a lot of rocks, notched blades are more prone to breaking than solid blades. Also, with less metal to begin with, notched blades will wear down quicker. It's a common practice to put notched blades on the front gangs and solids on the rear as sort of a compromise. (As I have done on all 3 of my disc's......MF25 3-point, IH350 wheel , IH496 wheel)

Roller bearing/ball bearing disc's are great IF YOU HAVE SEALED BEARINGS....Open roller bearings need constant attention. Cast iron "boxings" can continue to function way beyond the point when wear is beginning to show. I've seen boxings with 1/2" of wear still operating with no issues. Just pump 'em full of grease before each days use and life goes on.

I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts.
RJJR

 

[flusher]

Roller bearing/ball bearing disc's are great IF YOU HAVE SEALED BEARINGS....Open roller bearings need constant attention. Cast iron "boxings" can continue to function way beyond the point when wear is beginning to show. I've seen boxings with 1/2" of wear still operating with no issues. Just pump 'em full of grease before each days use and life goes on.

Open roller bearings--they do attract dirt and grit. Washing them after a use with diesel and relubing is my approach

Box bearings--you're right about these taking a licking and keeping on ticking. My old 6.5 ft Towner offset disc has this type of bearing. I replaced the grease zerks and pack a lot of grease into the bearing before use. No other servicing needed.

 

[jenkinsph]

Open roller bearings--they do attract dirt and grit. Washing them after a use with diesel and relubing is my approach

Box bearings--you're right about these taking a licking and keeping on ticking. My old 6.5 ft Towner offset disc has this type of bearing. I replaced the grease zerks and pack a lot of grease into the bearing before use. No other servicing needed.

I just noticed that I had suggested pillow block bearings in error I meant the cast block bearings and agree that you just grease these up before use and seem to last forever.

 

[MHarryE]

I have had the box frame KK for 3 years now. I have veryhard clay soil and it handles it without difficulty except now I have more tractor this disk was really made for so I have added a 12' wheeled tandem to my inventory. In damp clay I did have some problem plugging between blades and scrapers don't appear to be an option so I wrapped pieces of chain from the frame down around the spools wherever there were blade pairs without hangers and bearings. That took care of the problem completely.

 

[deere5105]

I've got a 5055 John Deere and am considering buying a King Kutter 6.5 Foot Box Frame Disc Harrow to work on my food plots. Any experiences with the durability of this particular Kink Kutter disc? I've read some reviews that caution on the durability particularly the welds. My farm terrain is slightly sloped and has quite a few rocks.

How is your 5055 set up? 2WD or 4WD? Does it have a loader? What size rear tire? I have a 5303 which is the same as the 5065. I have too been looking at options and plan to purchase a new disc within the next year or so. Still studying them as I expect this to be a lifetime purchase and want to be satisfied with it.

 

[Chief65043]

It is 4WD and I have 16.9 - 28 on the back and 12.5/80 - 18 on the front. It is equipped with a FEL. I also added extra weights on the tires for stability on the sloping terrain that I have.

Not settled on my disc selection yet, but some great advice in this thread and I really appreciate it.

 

[deere5105]

I am unfamiliar with that front tire size. Is it an R1 tread? My 5303 is basically the same except the fronts are 9.5-24.

 

[Chief65043]

My front tires are 9.5 - 24. Fat fingered the cut and paste.

 

[nckennedy]

Thanks guys for the input on this. I was about to buy a 3 point hitch 8ft disc and then suddenly realized that the rear wheels on my JD 5425 are 7.5 ft wide, so I figure I needed something wider. Going wider probably means going with a wheel drage like the JD 105. Are there any 10' wide 3 point disc? I here that a wheel drag disc will give you a better finish more smooth I guess for pasture or haying, etc. Any suggestions?

 

[gwdixon]

I have a M7040 with the same width. An 7.5' Howse tandem 3PH disc covers the tire tracks.

The disc is shipped in its narrowest configuration (naturally) so widening the rear gangs will give the coverage needed.

There are several threads on the advantages and disadvantages of an offset disc vs. a tandem disc. Doing a search will give some input.

I have both and prefer the 3PH tandem vs. the offset pull type. Both will leave a furrow but going over it with a harrow or a homemade drag evens it all out.

I even had a 6', 3PH, offset John Deere disc. The offset blades wanted to turn the tractor since it was a solid hook-up.

The thing about the tandem that is annoying is the little 2" strip down the middle of the pass that is not turned. I haven't quite figured out yet how to add a single sweep to the middle of the disc to deal with that but it will be accomplished someday. That is a bit **** but that's the way the mind works when sitting on the tractor for hours.

 

[nckennedy]

Oh, well thats helpful. Although I am not sure about "widening" the rear gang?
Does the adjustment to set the angel of the rear gang result in a wider cut of the disc?
Thanks