Generator advice

[donn12]

Looking for some generator knowledge and advice!

I do not have natural gas or a propane tank. I don't think I need (or really want) a whole house system. In the 6 years we have lived here we have not lost power for any length of time over a couple of hours, although we do have power lines and lots of trees.
We have about a 7,000 sq ft house, well water, septic and oil heat. I would like to power two refrigerators, a full size freezer, some lights, hot water etc. I would like to have some heat in the winter if the power is out in the winter, but other than that just the basics.

I have looked at a generac 17500 watt gas powered generator which is about $2300 on amazon. Is there a comparable or better diesel powered unit or anything else I should consider?

Thanks for the help - my $300 TSC unit is great for my barn but will not be of much use if we loose power for a couple of days!

 

[dhyayi]

I think you should get the total power (watt) of your system before choosing a generator. A gas powered generator is fine, but for better result, use coal generator which is more expensive.
Is this the 17500 that you saw ?
Amazon.com: Generac 4583 Ultra Source 17,500 Watt Portable Generator (CARB Compliant): Patio, Lawn & Garden

 

[IslandTractor]

We recently lost power for three days due to the remnants of Hurricane Irene. A 6000 watt Generac (Honda 11hp) did a fine job of keeping refrigerators, freezers, water pumps etc going among five houses. We used it two ways. The generator was put on a trailer and moved from house to house for a couple of hours run time each a couple of times a day to keep freezers cold and well pumps running for a while. Long extension cords allowed a couple of adjacent homes to be fed simultaneously with 110v. In a couple of homes the main was disconnected from the public utility and then back-fed 220v electricity to the whole house via the dryer outlet (using a special double male extension cord).

Based on our experience, I'd say that for emergency use with no air conditioning or electric heat to worry about, that a 6000watt unit is more than adequate for a household. It can handle all refrigeration, lights and at least one other big draw such as intermittent 220v water pump or microwave, oven etc simultaneously. Even with full electricity, a refrigerator/freezer compressor only runs a third of the time. We found we could keep frozen goods solid and the refrigerator reasonably cold with just a couple of two hour runs per day.

If there is no need for 220v then probably a 4000watt unit would be adequate to run a couple of refrigerators, freezers etc and also provide TV, lights, cell phone charging etc. One idea I will add for our island situation next time is to charge up a couple of marine deep discharge batteries while the generator is running and then use an inverter to allow continued use of lower amp 110v appliances/lights etc while the generator is off. Even a couple of 100amp/hour deep discharge batteries ($100 each) would manage quite a few electrical devices through an inverter when the generator is not running. An inverter could also be used with your car battery that way so long as you have gas to recharge it with the car engine. I'd imagine you could even keep a refrigerator going with a 1000watt inverter and the car idling for an hour or two several times a day.

Diesel powered generators are overkill for intermittent use IMO. They cost at least three times as much as an equivalent gas powered unit and if you are using it for only a few days every few years they really don't make much sense. Before I went that route I'd just get a PTO powered unit for the tractor. One less engine to maintain. I don't generally like the idea of tying up the tractor like that but it can be used intermittently (especially if you use the battery/inverter idea as part of the plan).

Biggest issue with any of the non propane generators is keeping them in running condition and avoiding the stale fuel and gummed up carburetor issues. Draining the fuel tank after each use or at least being compulsive about running the tank dry and adding stabilized new fuel at least once a year is critical. I prefer hand start as the battery for an electric start generator will likely be discharged if you use it only once every few years.

 

[KTurner]

if you use it only once every few years.

Make sure that never happens. Start them and run them with a load every month or two. Keeps things flowing well and you'll have a good idea that you won't have to go outside in a storm to find out why the blasted thing won't run. This goes for the big ones too. Our neighbor had his whole house natural gas generator die during a thunderstorm two nights before Irene. The cooling system had developed a leak. Larger units can be set to automatically start and perform testing at scheduled intervals.

Keith

 

[IslandTractor]

Make sure that never happens. Start them and run them with a load every month or two. Keeps things flowing well and you'll have a good idea that you won't have to go outside in a storm to find out why the blasted thing won't run. This goes for the big ones too. Our neighbor had his whole house natural gas generator die during a thunderstorm two nights before Irene. The cooling system had developed a leak. Larger units can be set to automatically start and perform testing at scheduled intervals.

Keith

I agree but it becomes yet another maintenance problem and chore that is too often ignored. Best to choose a generator set up that requires less than monthly maintenance to begin with and that might require just a few more minutes to get started. I drain all fuel and run the engine dry after each use and also use just a manual starter. I do run the generator for an hour or two each year just to check it out but don't do the monthly maintenance thing. I probably should remove the spark plug and put a little oil in cylinder between uses but I haven't had any problem with my annual maintenance check strategy. It started on the second pull after 12 months of sitting and on the first pull everytime after that. Thank you Mr. Honda.:thumbsup:

 

[Rustyiron]

I would suggest a diesel gen. You have oil heat and therefore, fuel for the gen. There are plenty of used units out there that might be a bit bigger than you need, but you have stated a pretty decent load and it never hurts the equipment to be oversized. The (size) units that I see seem to be back up replacements at comercial/govt bldgs. that get replaced by calender rather than op. hrs. Back in '99 just before thw y2k crap went around, there was a rental outfit that was selling out, I bought a 30k with close to 8k hours on it (it was trlr. mounted and spent it's life at sales trlrs. for new homes) and it has a small 4cyl Cummins in it and it runs like a top.
All the other posts about excersizing (running) it monthly, must be followed! For the sake of the linemen out there, please install the proper transfer switch to isolate the grid from your power! It does not have to be automatic and expensive, I have a manualy thrown 200amp switch that costs $400, well worth the safety of the guy in the "bucket" trying to power you back up!

 

[GPPlink]

Looking for some generator knowledge and advice!

I do not have natural gas or a propane tank. I don't think I need (or really want) a whole house system. In the 6 years we have lived here we have not lost power for any length of time over a couple of hours, although we do have power lines and lots of trees.
We have about a 7,000 sq ft house, well water, septic and oil heat. I would like to power two refrigerators, a full size freezer, some lights, hot water etc. I would like to have some heat in the winter if the power is out in the winter, but other than that just the basics.

I have looked at a generac 17500 watt gas powered generator which is about $2300 on amazon. Is there a comparable or better diesel powered unit or anything else I should consider?

Thanks for the help - my $300 TSC unit is great for my barn but will not be of much use if we loose power for a couple of days!

look into a GenerLink. it is a transfer switch for a generator that will allow you to run what you need through your house.

 

[Travelover]

.... I would like to power two refrigerators, a full size freezer, some lights, hot water etc. I would like to have some heat in the winter if the power is out in the winter, but other than that just the basics.............

If you have electrically heated hot water, you will need a much larger generator. Electric water heaters really suck the power.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you have electrically heated hot water, you will need a much larger generator. Electric water heaters really suck the power.

My 6000W generator did fine with hot water and ran some lights, a computer and the refrigerator at the same time. I'm sure I could not have also used an electric stove simultaneously but then that is the sort of choice you need to make if you don't want a "whole house" sized generator for emergency use.

 

[donn12]

We have a boiler for heat/hot water.

 

[grsthegreat]

I swapped to propane dual water heaters also, and only need 110 volt 2 amps for ignitor and exhaust fan. The only other issue i had with the advice about draining the tank and running the engine dry.....i ruined the diaphram on my small 2,400 watt genset doing this, as it sat dry for 2 seasons. When i refilled it...it didnt work. Had to rebuild the carb. Your doomed if you do and doomed if you dont.

 

[clemsonfor]

My 6000W generator did fine with hot water and ran some lights, a computer and the refrigerator at the same time. I'm sure I could not have also used an electric stove simultaneously but then that is the sort of choice you need to make if you don't want a "whole house" sized generator for emergency use.

It may run it but the thing is how long and what damage are you doing to electrical componets with running them on a fluttering power source that may not be supplying the total load they need. This will kill a computer and TV as well as other things like freezers etc over time.

 

[IslandTractor]

It may run it but the thing is how long and what damage are you doing to electrical componets with running them on a fluttering power source that may not be supplying the total load they need. This will kill a computer and TV as well as other things like freezers etc over time.

A 6000W generator should be able to safely run all those things. Again, I wouldn't run the stove and water heater simultaneously but 5000-6000W is well within the capacity to run a refrigerator (600-1000W), TV 500 W, computer (200W) and a few lights simultaneously. Intermittent water pump doesn't seem to be a problem either. We never had the generator shut down due to overload.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Electronics are fine on a generator as long as you have a good surge protector. Almost all modern electronics, like computers, TV sets, etc. use switching power supplies that will swallow any wave form. They don't require a sine wave, and will run on a square wave or modified sine wave just fine. Switching power supplies are also forgiving of under or over voltage or freqency variations.

The power spikes come when motors shut off, like your well pump. That will put out a brief high voltage spike, which any decent surge protector will shunt to ground with no damage.

 

[donn12]

I never thought about using my heating oil for a diesel unit - interesting!

 

[IslandTractor]

I never thought about using my heating oil for a diesel unit - interesting!

It is exactly the same stuff so you might as well use it if you have a diesel generator. However, as diesel generators are about three times as expensive as gas or propane models, there are some downsides to consider.

 

[lockhaven]

I have a 4000 watt that does all I need. i keep 50 gallons of water to flush the toilet and have 10 gallon for cooking purposes. A coleman camp stove for cooking. Unless something catastrophic happens the electric is seldom out for more then a week so I figure that if things got that bad no one would be getting fuel for their larger generators anyways.

 

[scott_vt]

It is exactly the same stuff so you might as well use it if you have a diesel generator. However, as diesel generators are about three times as expensive as gas or propane models, there are some downsides to consider.

Good Afternoon Ed,
Some very good posts... and I agree. Im hardly an expert, since I just purchased a small propane unit. Propane just seems to make sense to me if you have it on site. No lugging fuel cans and no gummed up carbs JMO...

 

[IslandTractor]

Yes, propane has some real advantages.

I am personally getting really sick of gummed up carburetors. Oxidized fuels are so unstable that it just doesn't make much sense to keep a week or mores worth of fuel around "just in case". Manufacturers have not yet developed simple systems to help the consumer deal with modern fuel. I just had to deal with a poorly functioning outboard motor today. The fuel had preservative added but that didn't help. Yeah I can take the carburetor off and clean it (which I did) but then I read that you are supposed to use a new gasket before reassembly. Bugger (I didn't). It shouldn't be that inconvenient. If fuel is no longer stable for more than a year, then the engines should be manufactured to tolerances or with adaptive designs to enable convenient management to maintain reliability. I have to manage nine gas engines that are used intermittently and that are stored over the summer or winter. Nine engines is probably not an extreme. (Lawn mower, snow blower, DR brush mower, Pressure washer, Leaf vacuum, chain saw, weed wacker, generator, outboard motor). I'm not even counting the tractor or automobiles as those use fuel rapidly enough that old fuel is not an issue.

So, yes, I think propane makes a lot of sense for an emergency generator. We often keep propane around for grilling or heat or general cooking anyways so instead of carting around 20lb cylinders, just "hard wire" a couple of 100lb tanks and be done with it. Even better for those who actually heat and cook with it, just use a 500 gallon below grade tank. Sounds good to me.

 

[whistlepig]

We have a 6500 watt gasoline Honda. The well pump is wired to a 220 volt transfer box with a pigtail. When the power goes out I pull the disconnect on the well pump transfer box and plug a 220 volt extension cord for the well pump directly in to the generator. This runs our two fridges, some lights, and pellet stove ran off extension cords ran through a window sill. Keeping gas stable isn't that big of a deal. Fresh gas in the generator and 25 gallons of fresh gas in cans (enough for a week) every fall with fresh Sta-Bil added. Gas maintenance takes me about an hour a year to do. Low tech and, except for the initial cost of the Honda generator, and not that expensive. This does work. We were with out power last February for 72 hours. We stayed warm, watered our livestock, and flushed our toilets. All of our neighbors have this identical set up.