YM 2000 Electrical (Starting,ect) PLEASE ADVISE

[rtd2]

Hello all,
I have a YM 2000 Got it as a rebuild with 10hrs on the meter. It has nearly 200 hrs. and besides reg. maint. I've not had any problem till now. Sunday I was cutting and all was weLl until my stupid self ran out of Fuel! Now this has happened once before and I primmed it and fired it up!

THIS TIME however it took a couple of times to prime and it nearly ran the battery dead before it fired off (New Die hard 650ccc ). Once it fired off I let it run about about 10 min and shut it off for the night. The next morning It wouldnt crank so I charged the battery about 6hrs. it fired up ran it about 30min. I Took my meter and i was getting 12.9-13.2 v @ 2200rmp.

I shut it off Battery showed 12.3v tried to star it 20 min. later and and NOTHING! Not even a click! I have a meter but Im more comfortable in mechanical problems than electrical! what else can i do U? I know the 75 datsun Alt/regulator is avail @ O'rielys for 30-35$ each but I want to make sure I'm not missing something. Thanks for any advice

 

[winston1]

The 12.9-13.2v indicates an ok charge. Did you check battery voltage at end when there was not even a click? Sometimes batterys just short a cell out and they are finished. If you have 12.3v or better and nothing you may need to consider the starter could be smoked. If you get nothing put your volt meter on the small wire on the starter and see if you get 12.3v or so when the ignition is turned to crank position. If so and the solenoid doesn't kick in give it a little bump. Your going to have to do some trouble shooting to find the problem.

 

[284 International]

Winston gave really good advice for diagnosing the starter solenoid.

It's a possibility that you're experiencing a gremlin unrelated to everything else. The clutch safety switch may be faulty. Winston mentioned checking the voltage at the solenoid, that may also indicate your key switch is bad. My YM2000 doesn't, but some tractors have a switch that won't let the machine start if the PTO is engaged.

Check the terminals and cable connections for the battery, too.

 

[rtd2]

Thank you both! I went out after eating and tried it and NOW its Clicking again? took advice abouve and some readings with my meter. Thought i share to maybe give some more insight. unfortunatly I'm just more CONFUSED!
Battery with no key 12.77v
Battery with key turned to crank 12.22v
Small wire at starter without key 12.76v
Small wire at starter with key to crank 0.44v ??
Also read in another thread about jumping from small terminal on stater to large nut I did with a screwdrivier and got a spark/click.

I checked voltage at ignition switch and its 12.75v with no key and .046v at crank ?? Lights work fine, No known clutch safety switch as I've accidently bumped starter while in gear and it turned over just fine also dont see any wiring or switch in the area of my clutch lever.

I double checked pto its in "N" but i think it will crank in gear as well. I'm at a loss on how it was running Perfect prior to me running out of fuel. I'm probally missing something simple but like I said I more of a bolt off/on person than electrical. Guess these leaves checking battery cables which I will do tomorrow! any other ideas please fire away! thank you !

 

[MJPetersen]

be sure to clean both ends of the battery cables. Sometimes the problem is not the battery connections themselves, but rather the frame/engine ground end or the starter cable end.

By only getting a click when jumping the small starter terminal with the battery cable connection to the starter, you can rule out the starter switch as the problem. normally if it were a switch it would crank by jumping the terminals on the starter.

From the sounds of it, your problem is most likely simply dirty battery terminal connections.

Mike

 

[rtd2]

Thanks Mike, They look fine but i know looks dont mean a thing! I'm going to clean them real good tomorrow and inspect them for cracking,corrosion ,ect.

 

[284 International]

I think you're on your way to fixing this. Since jumping the solenoid with a screwdriver didn't get the starter to turn, you aren't getting enough power to the starter motor. Check all your cables and connections, first. If you have a set of jumper cables, or a boost setting on your charger, try starting it using the extra amperage.

I think running out of fuel was just the root source of a heavier than normal load on the starting electrical system (when you cranked it for an extra long time), not otherwise related.

 

[rtd2]

I think you're on your way to fixing this. Since jumping the solenoid with a screwdriver didn't get the starter to turn, you aren't getting enough power to the starter motor. Check all your cables and connections, first. If you have a set of jumper cables, or a boost setting on your charger, try starting it using the extra amperage.

I think running out of fuel was just the root source of a heavier than normal load on the starting electrical system (when you cranked it for an extra long time), not otherwise related.

Makes perfect sense on the fuel issue. also Great Idea on boost I will try that if all connections check good. I'll post back tomorrow thanks everyone!

 

[irvingj]

Ever since I had this problem, I tell everyone I can-- the ground strap on my GC broke, just with age (100+ hrs) and vibration. It pretty much shut everything down, and is easy to miss. Check it!

I chased mine around for quite a while --with some weird meter readings-- before I found it, thanks to a tip from another TBN member.:thumbsup:

 

[ppags]

One thing I would consider is hand cranking the engine to make sure it turns over, if it hydra locked that starter will not crank it. That will eliminate one possibility! Does your unit have a compression release? Another thing would be to load test the battery, I have seen them read good voltage and tank out as soon as you load them. battery voltage should be minimum 12.6 (2.1 volts per cell x 6 cells) 13.2 @2200 RPM sounds minimum to me,( charging voltage is usually 13.2-14.6) I would expect that voltage closer to 1500 RPM, but, if the battery was fully charged when you took that reading than it probabely wasn't drawing that much off of the alternator. Good luck, hope you get 'er fixed!

 

[rtd2]

I'm able to turn motor by hand using Decompress lever (which I always use when cranking to help)

well yesterday afternoon I checked grounding strap and it was good I checked and cleaned connections and it still would'nt crank just click although the Click seems to be Louder now? tried re-jumping connections as follows: Jumped 2 large nuts on starter= Click. Small connection on solonoid to battery connection on starter = click. ran a Hot wire from battery + straight to solonoid =click so tried using key and While cranking it over I remember reading to lightly tap on the solonoid so I did and it Cranked over and started. It was nearly dark so I ran it few minutes and shut it down. I put charger on it overnight just to start a fresh and this morning and when I tried to crank- Click,click. re-check voltage at connections as follows...

Meter shows :
At battery 13.22v
Small wire at solonoid 13.17v (Key off)
Battery wire at starter 13.12v (Key off)

At Battery 12.41v (Key starting)
Small wire at Solonoid 12.41v (Key Starting)
Battery wire at starter 12.42 (key Starting)

also checked battery again by turning lights (tractor not running)on for about 3 min. voltage dropped from starting point of 12.43v to 12.17v in 3min. This normal?

* I also tried jumping methods as above while having battery charger (Its one of those microprosser controlled) connected it will get battery back to 14.4 to 14.6v pretty quick and shut off after jumping and trying to crank with the key voltage will quickly drop to 12.5.v and charger cuts back on and starts charging.

I feel like I'm spinning my wheels here ..trying to learn as I go and gain some of the memebers knowlege here cause this electrical stuff easily stumps me!
Thanks for the help thus far and for any advice or direction on what to do/check next

 

[California]

Maybe it's been said - I didn't read all the replies above.

I would measure voltage at each point in the starting circuit, under cranking conditions (key turned for a moment). With the ground wire of your tester clipped to ground, measure at

Battery

Far end of the heavy battery cable - at the starter

Input to ignition switch

Output side (Start terminal) of ignition switch

Input/output of Clutch Safety switch, then any other safety switches (PTO, seat, etc).

Small terminal on starter where the wire from the ignition switch arrives.

With the ignition switch simply on, you should have 12.6 volts at these points as far as the ignition switch input.

With the key turned to Start: if you still have 12.6v at the points beyond the ignition switch then the starter isn't drawing any power, there is a broken wire, or one of the safety switches is open. If turning the key drops voltage at those points to near zero then the starter is shorted internally or the battery is bad. Repeat the test with the headlights on to appraise the battery. If some voltage slightly less than 12v reaches the starter with the key turned but the engine won't crank, the starter is bad - most likely the solenoid contact are dirty and this is something you can disassemble and clean.

Ok that's a general guide to troubleshooting. Adapt as needed.

 

[shawnjvl]

I had this clicking problem with my 2000 when I first got it. It ended up being a bad female blade terminal on the starter solenoid, the wire that runs from the ignition switch. I got rid of that and put a eye terminal and bolting it on. Problem solved.

 

[rtd2]

Maybe it's been said - I didn't read all the replies above.

I would measure voltage at each point in the starting circuit, under cranking conditions (key turned for a moment). With the ground wire of your tester clipped to ground, measure at

Battery

Far end of the heavy battery cable - at the starter

Input to ignition switch

Output side (Start terminal) of ignition switch

Input/output of Clutch Safety switch, then any other safety switches (PTO, seat, etc).

Small terminal on starter where the wire from the ignition switch arrives.

With the ignition switch simply on, you should have 12.6 volts at these points as far as the ignition switch input.

With the key turned to Start: if you still have 12.6v at the points beyond the ignition switch then the starter isn't drawing any power, there is a broken wire, or one of the safety switches is open. If turning the key drops voltage at those points to near zero then the starter is shorted internally or the battery is bad. Repeat the test with the headlights on to appraise the battery. If some voltage slightly less than 12v reaches the starter with the key turned but the engine won't crank, the starter is bad - most likely the solenoid contact are dirty and this is something you can disassemble and clean.

Ok that's a general guide to troubleshooting. Adapt as needed.

California,
Thanks for your input! I'm printing this off to take out to the tractor. I will post results later! thanks again for your time!

 

[rtd2]

I had this clicking problem with my 2000 when I first got it. It ended up being a bad female blade terminal on the starter solenoid, the wire that runs from the ignition switch. I got rid of that and put a eye terminal and bolting it on. Problem solved.

was about to head out to recheck voltage when I saw this. I noticed the blade on my wire seems too big. I will replace it. BTW where are you located in SMiss. I'm near wiggins

 

[clemsonfor]

I'm able to turn motor by hand using Decompress lever (which I always use when cranking to help)

well yesterday afternoon I checked grounding strap and it was good I checked and cleaned connections and it still would'nt crank just click although the Click seems to be Louder now? tried re-jumping connections as follows: Jumped 2 large nuts on starter= Click. Small connection on solonoid to battery connection on starter = click. ran a Hot wire from battery + straight to solonoid =click so tried using key and While cranking it over I remember reading to lightly tap on the solonoid so I did and it Cranked over and started. It was nearly dark so I ran it few minutes and shut it down. I put charger on it overnight just to start a fresh and this morning and when I tried to crank- Click,click. re-check voltage at connections as follows...

Meter shows :
At battery 13.22v
Small wire at solonoid 13.17v (Key off)
Battery wire at starter 13.12v (Key off)

At Battery 12.41v (Key starting)
Small wire at Solonoid 12.41v (Key Starting)
Battery wire at starter 12.42 (key Starting)

also checked battery again by turning lights (tractor not running)on for about 3 min. voltage dropped from starting point of 12.43v to 12.17v in 3min. This normal?

* I also tried jumping methods as above while having battery charger (Its one of those microprosser controlled) connected it will get battery back to 14.4 to 14.6v pretty quick and shut off after jumping and trying to crank with the key voltage will quickly drop to 12.5.v and charger cuts back on and starts charging.

I feel like I'm spinning my wheels here ..trying to learn as I go and gain some of the memebers knowlege here cause this electrical stuff easily stumps me!
Thanks for the help thus far and for any advice or direction on what to do/check next

Take this battery to a place like advance auto and have them test it for you. A Bad battery can easily read 12.7 volts and drop like crazy when cranking. I have had several in the past do this. Or it can read 12.7 one hour and 9.5 2 hours later nothing happening between no charging running or draining.

You could also have someone look at the meter before starting and as you start it tapping the starter and look at the volt drop.

Your close you just have to find it, your jumping around. Start with the battery tested by a store, its free. Then pull the starter and take to the same store to test starter and solonoid. Its free as well, i think your problem is there and less likely a key switch but you never know.

 

[winston1]

If you tapped the solenoid and it cranked you may have found the problem.

 

[rtd2]

If you tapped the solenoid and it cranked you may have found the problem.

Got a its the solenoid now cause I battery to parts store earlier and it load tested fine. showed up good battery so gonna put battery back in it tomorrow and recheck Voltage using California's info. earlier.

if that doesnt show progress, I'll focus on the solenoid. let me go ahead and ask if it is a dirty/failing solenoid is it possible its bad or corroded internal connections? Clean or Fixable or do I need to just replace it with a new? and if new please advise on a good source.WHAT AN Experience! THANKS ALL

 

[irvingj]

Depends on the solenoid, but I used to take the one on my 72 Chevy Blazer apart and clean its contacts; not too hard. (It was built into the starter mtor.)

Going back to California's tests-- another easier way to do a quick starter motor check is to turn headlights on and see if they dim when the key's switched to "start."

Starter motors draw a ton of amps, and if it's getting juice, the lights will dim significantly. No dimming means the motor's not sucking any juice, so you start tracing the ignition circuit, beginning with solenoid.

Good luck!

 

[MJPetersen]

From what you have written I would say that your problem is the solenoid (or the connection to it), Make sure you have a good connection to the solenoid from the switch and if that does not do it, take the solenoid off. If it comes apart then clean the contacts, if not then you may be able to just replace it. Inside will be two terminal contacts, a spring and a disk attached to a shaft that is pulled by the electric magnet coil. The coil draws the shaft until the disk hits both contacts (battery and starter motor), [if either contact has a small tit, that may be enough to keep the disk from contacting the second contact.] The mechanical movement of the shaft and disk also moves the starter bendix into engagement with the flywheel. By tapping on the solenoid you are moving the disk slightly so that the "tit" falls into a depression and therefore allowing the solenoid to make contact--or jiggles the shaft which may be binding in the coil.

Just a brief definition of what is going on inside where you cannot see. And an explanation of what may be happening.

Mike