Buying Advice Need advice from those who know

[maximus188]

Hi everyone. I'm new here, just joined today. Thanks in advance for all advice. Here's my situation. My father and I have a small fencing company in Alabama. My dad has a new job and the company has fell to me. I've been using a M4900 with a bush hog auger but my dad is going to need his tractor so I've been looking in to buying one of my own. I've priced a L3200DT new for $13900 cash with 4wd and fel. I've been quoted $750 to add a rear remote. Are the rear remotes one fits all or can you get different controls or pumps? The reason I ask is because I have a hydraulic t-post driver and when I use it on the 4900, I have to run the return line back to the reservoir and not the return on the remote. Something about the type of pump. It's also the reason I can't put a loader on the 4900, that model seems to run the return from the fel to the fill hole on the reservoir.
I also have plans on getting a hydraulic auger from Belltec that attaches to the fel bucket and the hoses run to the rear remotes. The company had it mounted on a JD 4200, which is about the same as a L3200 except it's older. The auger on the fel will make things quicker and easier. Does anyone know if the prices are good or not?
I know most will recommend me get a hst but not sure how much that will add to the price but I do believe it will be worth it even though I've never used a tractor with one. The primary job of this tractor will be work but I will do some light fel work and bush hogging.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I'm also a fencing contractor, so maybe I can offer some advice.

First off, the size of the tractor should be dependent on the implements you want to run. I mostly use a B3200 and a JD 2550 (65hp). The B3200 gets used with a 3pt hitch auger with hydraulic down force, and the loader to carry supplies, generator, etc. I also have a 3pt hitch wire unroller that unrolls and stretches up to 8 strands of high tensile wire at once, or woven wire up to 6' tall. It works well on the B3200 as well.

The post driver I use is a Munro Digger/Driver, which is all hydraulic and has a hydraulic pilot auger. It takes about 10gpm hyd. flow and weighs over 1000lbs, so it has to go on the 2550 JD. Problem is that the JD and post driver together weigh 11,000lbs, and to legally haul it you need a CDL. Someday I'll get a tractor in between sizes of the B3200 and 2550, something around the size of a Kubota L4400 or MX4700. You really don't need a 65hp tractor to run a post driver, just a lot of wasted weight and size.

I'm also working on a new all hydraulic post driver to fit my B3200, it will only weigh 800lbs and won't have the pilot auger. This setup will be much more transportable than the big tractor/driver combo. Portability is something to consider as in this line of work you have to trailer your equipment to almost every job.

As to a tractor for your situation, I would really look at the L4400 if it's in your budget. It's big enough to handle most any kind of post driver or auger, yet still light enough to haul on a 10K trailer. The L3200/3800 are good tractor and reasonably sized, but the one major fault is the jerky 3pt hitch. It can make running a 3pt auger a nightmare (lots of threads in the Kubota section about this problem.) If you are just wanting to run a standard auger, or a small post driver, the B3200/B3300 and B3030 are also something to consider. Mine has made me a lot of money over the past couple years, and it is very easy to haul (one of the reasons I got it.) The grand L series such as the L3240 are also very nice, but big $$$.

One thing you probably won't be doing with any of the aforementioned tractors is running a front mount hydraulic auger. These tractors just don't have enough hydraulic flow to make them work properly. You would be limited to the smallest hyd. motor size augers and even then they would spin very slow. Also, visibility on a tractor is not like that of a skid steer where you can see the auger point well. If you have a helper to guide you it's ok, but if you're working by yourself it's hard to get the auger in the right spot.

So basically, depending on your budget, the L4400 or Grand L3240/3540, L3200/3800, or B3200/3300/3030 would all do the job. HST is really nice, but not a necessity for this type of work.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

personally, I'd be looking at a small skid loader. you can auger much faster and more efficiently, and you have the flow to run a post pounder properly.

 

[jimmyj]

I have a pal who got rid of his tractors for skid steers with front mount augers. He swears by them for his fencing business.

 

[maximus188]

I've looked in to a skid steer numerous times and like them but I need something I can pull a trailer behind and a tph.
I knew it would be pushing it to think about a fel mounted auger on a tractor that small. They barely meet the gpm requirements. The post driver I use is hand held and only drives t posts or pipe up to 3" so size isn't a problem with it. I've looked at the 3240s but for that price I would consider a M series. Guess I'm just looking for the perfect machine that doesn't exist.
I have a similar unrolled like yours except it's for barb wire, we don't do much high tensile here. It's actually been kind of dead lately but it's starting to pick up again.

 

[maximus188]

Is there any way to have a more powerful hydraulic pump put on a smaller tractor?

 

[nybirdman]

There are rear Pto driven units,real pricey.

 

[KU Gator]

When I stopped by a rental place looking for something to auger some pretty big holes for a small pole barn, they had units called Dingos. It is an Australian company. It was a pretty interesting piece of equipment and could have different heads to dig ditches, auger, a small bucket or fork lift, etc. The ones I saw were on tracks. Kind of interesting, but I moved on to other projects, so didn't rent one.

Dingo Mini Diggers | Mini Digger | Mini Excavator| Dingo Australia

 

[Wolfy]

HST compared to a gear shift would be $1,000 to $1,500 more.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I have a pal who got rid of his tractors for skid steers with front mount augers. He swears by them for his fencing business.

The reason skid steer haven't impressed me is the hills and rough terrain we have around here. The only option is compact track loaders and they are big money for anything decent. Also any kind of skid steer can only handle one function at a time. A tractor can be configured to run a post driver, unroller, forks, auger, etc, on either the front or back, so you can be doing two jobs at once. When I'm using the unroller I carry all my tools, extra supplies, generator, etc on the front to build the braces with at each end. Also can use forks to carry along a load of posts when using the driver on the back, lots of options.

I've looked in to a skid steer numerous times and like them but I need something I can pull a trailer behind and a tph.
I knew it would be pushing it to think about a fel mounted auger on a tractor that small. They barely meet the gpm requirements. The post driver I use is hand held and only drives t posts or pipe up to 3" so size isn't a problem with it. I've looked at the 3240s but for that price I would consider a M series. Guess I'm just looking for the perfect machine that doesn't exist.
I have a similar unrolled like yours except it's for barb wire, we don't do much high tensile here. It's actually been kind of dead lately but it's starting to pick up again.

Maybe look for a used grand L or L4400? I think that size would suit you best if you are only going to have one tractor to do it all. The L3200/3800 would do the job fine, and are definitely affordable (especially in the DT.) Would probably do 90% of what you need except for run a hydraulic auger. As mentioned before, you could use a PTO pump, which run $300-400 plus you'd need to have some sort of reservoir.

Maybe you could give a little more info on exactly what type of fencing you do? Unless you are doing residential fencing or board fence, a good tractor mounted post driver will earn you a lot more money than a hydraulic auger. They also generally take less hydraulic flow and the standard L series could handle a medium size driver fairly easily.

 

[maximus188]

I couldn't agree more with the multi function of the tractor over the skid steer. I mainly do farm fencing. Barb wire, field fence, some high tensile, and some chain link. I've thought about a wood post driver but it just doesn't seem like the post would set as good as it would with drilling a hole and using concrete, esp. in wet areas. It also doesn't seem like it would work that well in really hard ground. Sometimes my t-post driver takes a while to put one in, and it's hitting 1100-1500 times a minute with 50lbs of force. But I'm all about increasing the speed as long as it doesn't hurt quality. I'll look in to the L4400.
I've looked for a PTO pump but there's a lot that goes in to it. I've looked at complete models with the tank, pump, hoses, cooler but they seem to cost anywhere from 2k-5k.

 

[Verticaltrx]

As far as post drivers go, good ones do an excellent job and are much faster than drilling and setting by hand. Cheap ones are a nightmare to use and you are lucky to get a post straight.

The Munro Digger/Driver I use has a 500lb weight that can be lifted up to 10' high, so it packs a pretty good punch. The key is the pilot auger though, it is hydraulic powered and can drill through about anything up to light rock. With the pilot hole it is possible to get every post completely straight and plumb, also sets the post very tight regardless of the ground condition. Something like this is probably a lot more that you're looking for, but there are other post drivers out there that work very well.

After having researched a lot of brands, I really think the models from overseas preform much better. The one I use comes from Australia, there are also a lot of good designs out of New Zealand and Europe. A few good brands that come to mind are Munro, Vector, King Hitter, Bryce Suma and ProTech. I think most of them have distributors in this country. I know I'll offend a lot of people, but I'm not at all impressed with the American designed post drivers. Most of them offer very little control of the post while driving making it hard to consistently drive straight posts.

Even a small tractor like the L3200 with a nice $5-6000 post driver will make you a lot more money than the larger tractors with a hydraulic auger. The only fencing my auger gets used for nowadays is board fence or other decorative fence, which I don't do much of. I do use it a fair bit for building pole barns (the other part of my business.) Just some things to think about, there are several different routes you could go.

 

[maximus188]

I think they've went up. Just priced the Munroe on their website and the cheapest was $8500. Way out of my price range

 

[Verticaltrx]

I think they've went up. Just priced the Munroe on their website and the cheapest was $8500. Way out of my price range

That's about what they cost, about 10K when you get the additional augers, pay freight, etc. Like I said before, it's probably more than you need for your operation right now. The shale and rock we have to deal with around here is the reason I have to use something like that.

This was more of what I had in mind when I said $5-6k driver:

(model 1, 1+ or 2)

Vector PowerDrive Post Driver Range Vector PowerDrive

There are dealers in the US for those, although they generally only show the large ones on their websites.

With that said, you know your operation best. Maybe an auger would be more suitable for your setup. If you are generally just setting wood posts for corner and brace posts, then the time savings of a driver might not pay off. :thumbsup: