Bumper Vs. Gooseneck Payloads

[slowzuki]

So what sticker are you looking at? Mine says how much each axle of the vehicle are rated at. My trailer says what each axle is rated at. That and what I have paid for on my registration are all that the scale cares about.

I'm happy to exceed the factory tow rating on my F350, not my axle loads. The combo I have happens to be rated to tow 5000 lbs or something ridiculously low like that when all the drivetrain and brakes are the same as the V10 model rated to tow something like 15,000.

I was a bit curious about this, the tow rating is lowered due to the hill start and acceleration on hill criteria. Depending where you live, this may or may not matter to you. It doesn't where I live, but I don't have hills, or busy freeway merges. Some driver responsibility here vs just reading a sticker.

"Look here rookie, I just KNOW that this rig is safe 5 tons over what the durned stickers say, so why don't Ya just waive me through ?"

 

[xtn]

Good for you and I also suppose that means you never speed or right turn on red without coming to a complete stop.

Never wilfully, no. I do have lapses of attention from time to time.

 

[TheTrailerGuy]

Here's a general question for debate. Is it true that a tow vehicle can haul more with a bumper pull trailer than it can with a gooseneck?

Let's use my setup as a reference. I have a Silverado half ton with about a 1000 pound payload capacity after figuring passengers, etc. A typical bumper pull setup uses about 10% tongue weight. A typical gooseneck setup uses 25% tongue weight. My trailer payload capacities therefore are 10,000 pounds for a bumper pull or 4,000 pounds for a gooseneck.

I love my 5th wheel camper and my gooseneck horse trailer. I'm planning a full re-build on my flat bed trailer, and I was tempted to convert it to a gooseneck until I started looking at the above numbers.

I seems odd to me that I can haul less with a gooseneck trailer. What am I missing?

I would guess, not knowing where the data came from, that the 4,000lb number is your vertical load rating for a gooseneck, where as the number quoted for bumper pull is total trailer weight. Two different animals. There is no doubt in my mind that a gooseneck can carry much more with less drama than a bumper pull trailer.

 

[Dargo]

I would guess, not knowing where the data came from, that the 4,000lb number is your vertical load rating for a gooseneck, where as the number quoted for bumper pull is total trailer weight. Two different animals. There is no doubt in my mind that a gooseneck can carry much more with less drama than a bumper pull trailer.

Oh yeah? Wanna follow me through some extremely narrow roads with sharp turns loaded with mailboxes and trees? I didn't believe it for a while, but a bumper pull is far, far better when you have to make sharp turns where the trailer has to follow the tow vehicle and not cut off 5 or 6' from the tow vehicle's tracks. After 20 years of using GN trailers, I got rid of my last one this spring. You can keep 'em as far as I'm concerned. That along with all the drama associated with wiping out poles, mailboxes etc. because the trailer took a short cut when you went around a corner. In many cases where I live, you don't have the luxory of making a 60' sweeping turn into a drive or small road.

 

[SLHawkins]

Oh yeah? Wanna follow me through some extremely narrow roads with sharp turns loaded with mailboxes and trees? I didn't believe it for a while, but a bumper pull is far, far better when you have to make sharp turns where the trailer has to follow the tow vehicle and not cut off 5 or 6' from the tow vehicle's tracks. After 20 years of using GN trailers, I got rid of my last one this spring. You can keep 'em as far as I'm concerned. That along with all the drama associated with wiping out poles, mailboxes etc. because the trailer took a short cut when you went around a corner. In many cases where I live, you don't have the luxory of making a 60' sweeping turn into a drive or small road.

Were your bumper pulls and goosenecks all the same length? Or, did your goosenecks tend to be longer?

 

[powerstroke444e]

Well AGGIE00 does bring up some fairly interesting points. It seems like there are basically 2 groups of people here. One that looks at stickers and ratings, and nothing else and always makes sure they are under that rating. And then the other group that knows the limitations of their equipment and themselves and go with that regardless of the little stickers.

In my opinion it really depends on where you are, and what you are doing. Being a commercial driver and driving across the country over your sticker weight is a lot different then the local farmer driving 5 miles from one farm to another being double his sticker.

It seems that weight debates always turn into being sticker & legal debates. The sticker weight is set by the manf. with a certain CYA factor and assuming you are going to be driving at 65 mph. The legal side will follow the sticker regardless of any common sense & based on the same assumptions. If you look at semi, or dump trucks, the only difference in the legal capacity of some of them is what a little piece of paper says. Semi's are maxed out at 80k because thats what is "safe" for the roads and everything else. With a piece of paper from the gov that same tractor can pull 120k as a permitted load. If I say that I pulled a 18k load without brakes with my 1/2 ton rated for a 8k trailer I would get hammered with legal/sticker stuff. Now if I say that 18k load was a gravity wagon full of corn that I pulled 8 miles from one farm to the other with a max speed of 20 mph and an SMV sign some would understand and say I was pushing it a little, but OK. Others would cry legal weight and say I wasn't safe.

So what I'm saying is what works for me may not work for you. I have NEVER heard of a non com truck get pulled over around here and get checked for weight. But if I was a for hire/com driver going cross country on the interstate I would follow my legal numbers. And yeah I don't drive for a living, but I do have my class A CDL, combination, air......

Sorry for the rant.

Good post on the 2 types of people on here.

If you live in a rual area next time you see a farmer hauling gravity wagons notice that most newer ones are set up with brakes and lights, reason under FED DOT max legal is 34000lbs for a farm trailer a good 3/4ton will pull them just fine on somewhat flat ground. Some of the wagons will handle over 700bu of corn @ 56 per thats 39000lbs plus wagon and truck pulling it. Safe?? depends on the driver but the brakes on these are hydraulic and will stop it very safely.

On a given day at local elevator during harvest 5-10 differant farms doing this as its much cheaper than a old dump truck with crappy brakes that will legally haul 400 bu. But all the pickups pulling these setups have US Dot numbers per the federal requirements.

 

[Dargo]

Were your bumper pulls and goosenecks all the same length? Or, did your goosenecks tend to be longer?

Same length. Bumper (pintle) hitch just tracks much better. I'll admit that I thought the opposite until it was proven to me and I tried it for myself. That left me with 3 GN trailers to get rid of at the time. Glad I did. Much, much easier in tight areas now!

 

[Duffster]

reason under FED DOT max legal is 34000lbs for a farm trailer.

That maybe an IL thing but it is not Fed.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I would guess, not knowing where the data came from, that the 4,000lb number is your vertical load rating for a gooseneck, where as the number quoted for bumper pull is total trailer weight. Two different animals. There is no doubt in my mind that a gooseneck can carry much more with less drama than a bumper pull trailer.

The data is simple math assuming a 1000 pound payload capacity of the truck, and assuming a 10% tongue weight for the bumper pull and a 25% tongue weight for the gooseneck. 1,000 is 10% of 10,000 (bumper pull) and 25% of 4,000 (gooseneck). I've since realized that I was using the minimum tongue weight for a bumper pull and the maximum tongue weight for the gooseneck. I also realized that my truck is rated for a little more weight on a gooseneck tongue than on a bumper pull tongue.

Even still, for a half ton truck, the numbers don't pencil out like everyone seems to think they will. The maximum loads end up being about the same for a gooseneck and a bumper pull. Keep in mind I'm just talking payload ratings, tongue weights, and gross vehicle weight ratings.

After running the numbers and thinking through all the input in this thread, for me it comes down to a matter of convenience and applicability to my particular situation. I love a gooseneck for what I do. Obviously, Dargo's situation lends itself much better to a bumper pull trailer.

I ended up re-building the trailer as a bumper pull because of the cost of materials. A gooseneck tongue would have cost me twice as much.

 

[powerstroke444e]

That maybe an IL thing but it is not Fed.

Thanks for pointing out. I did a little more research to make it simple hauling grain now falls under interstate commerce so that why we need DOT number the link below goes over the rule in IL till court or new law is passed. And currently a farm wagon can be 36000 and a pull type tailer just needs plated to cover the wieght that you have on it up to 34000 per axle set

http://www.ilfb.org/viewdocument_file.asp?did=18715&filename=TruckTrailerSizeWeight2011-04_18715.pdf
:thumbsup:
Clear as mud

 

[TheTrailerGuy]

Nobody is mentioning weight distribution bumper pull hitches. Does anyone use these anymore? I towed with one on a 3000 mile trip to Alaska and now hate having to use standard drawbar.

Love them! Great old story. My dad was an old farm machinery trader since the 50's. one time he had bought a bunch of goodies at a farm auction and since the big trucks were all busy, he sent me to get it all with his 1/2 ton 4x4 chevy truck with a 12k bumper pull trailer and he had me take along his monster 1,000lb equalizer hitch.

I loaded it all up and the rear axle was on the snubbers, so i pulled those big bars and a cheater pipe and kept playing each bar against each other until she was all pulled up nice and level looking. the problem was, i had overtensioned them.

I pulled up the first stoplight with probably 12-13,000lbs on behind a 350 small block in a 4x4 chevy truck and when the light changed, i SMOKED the rear tires like a funny car.

Pulled over, dropped the chains down about two notches each and drove it on home. do they work? Oh yes... they work.

 

[slowzuki]

A GN always cuts the corner is a straight line towards the hitch. Partly why they don't sway badly and why the term big trucker turn exists. The bumper pull countersteers due to the tail swing in the turn letting it track the tow vehicle better.

When you get a short overhang like a van, and a long wheel base trailer, like my 27 ft, it acts almost the same as a GN. Cuts corners, but backs up like a dream.

Big overhang like my 1 ton long box, and short trailer, it follows perfectly the path of the truck, but you can't back it up hardly.

 

[Dargo]

A GN always cuts the corner is a straight line towards the hitch. Partly why they don't sway badly and why the term big trucker turn exists. The bumper pull countersteers due to the tail swing in the turn letting it track the tow vehicle better.

When you get a short overhang like a van, and a long wheel base trailer, like my 27 ft, it acts almost the same as a GN. Cuts corners, but backs up like a dream.

Big overhang like my 1 ton long box, and short trailer, it follows perfectly the path of the truck, but you can't back it up hardly.

Agreed completely.

 

[xtn]

If we could just get a few more conflicting opinions we should be able to settle this thing once and for all.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If we could just get a few more conflicting opinions we should be able to settle this thing once and for all.

Guess that is why they make both kinds. Some like me would only have a BP while others only will have a GN.

I have had both types and it would be hard for me to ever go back to a GN. Just did not work for me.

Chris

 

[davygp38]

Oh yeah? Wanna follow me through some extremely narrow roads with sharp turns loaded with mailboxes and trees? I didn't believe it for a while, but a bumper pull is far, far better when you have to make sharp turns where the trailer has to follow the tow vehicle and not cut off 5 or 6' from the tow vehicle's tracks. After 20 years of using GN trailers, I got rid of my last one this spring. You can keep 'em as far as I'm concerned. That along with all the drama associated with wiping out poles, mailboxes etc. because the trailer took a short cut when you went around a corner. In many cases where I live, you don't have the luxory of making a 60' sweeping turn into a drive or small road.

I guess it depends on what kind of driving you do. If,like yourself you are running the ridge tops, and Hollows, like the dukes of Hazzard, then the bumper pull works. For me, I drive on paved roads, highways, and streets, for the most part. There is no doubt in my mind,that in normal driving situations the gooseneck will haul more freight, more safely, with less "drama," than a bumper pull. Although it is interesting watching someones bumper pull trailer weaving down the road, using both lanes due to instability, I will leave it to others.

 

[Dargo]

I guess it depends on what kind of driving you do. If,like yourself you are running the ridge tops, and Hollows, like the dukes of Hazzard, then the bumper pull works. For me, I drive on paved roads, highways, and streets, for the most part. There is no doubt in my mind,that in normal driving situations the gooseneck will haul more freight, more safely, with less "drama," than a bumper pull. Although it is interesting watching someones bumper pull trailer weaving down the road, using both lanes due to instability, I will leave it to others.

Well, no, not really. With a GN trailer if you're in a RH turn lane and there's a utility pole on that corner (very common across this country) and there's a filled turn lane on the cross street with people coming from your right to turn onto the street you're on (not allowing you to make a big sweeping turn), you're stuck with a GN trailer where a bumper pull or pintle hitch trailer can make that turn easily. Go back and read Slowzuki's post about how a GN trailer follows it's ball and cuts off the corner.

With proper tongue weight on a bumper pull or pintle hitch trailer, I've never had any "drama" in hundreds of thousands of miles of pulling trailers. If you have "drama" towing that way, it is you who drives like they are a Dukes of Hazzard wannabe. Otherwise, what you're thinking "in your mind" simply is not true. Sorry, facts just do not support it. If you need to back a trailer into a small space and need to jack-knife the trailer to do so, then a GN is the way to go. However, with my uses and needs, I never have the call to park my trailer that way. Besides, doing so with a heavy load is brutal on your trailer tires, wheels, bearings and axles.

Believe me, I would not have bought the GN trailers I had if I had not incorrectly thought the same as you for many years. So, believe me, I'm not making any judgments about your current thoughts; I was there and thought the same until it was proven differently to me. If you have weak rear springs, you may want to go with a GN trailer to compensate. The other issue is that GN trailers typically put much more weight on the ball by nature; most have their axles placed further towards the rear than a pintle hitch construction trailer. If you don't want to go with a dually (which I prefer myself anyway), it's not always the best setup with a SRW 1 ton pickup. You'll get more of your "drama" towing heavy with only 2 rear wheels than you want in many instances.

 

[slowzuki]

GN is great for stability at highway speed, less sensitive to weight distribution, I don't think anyone will argue. GN is great at backing into tight spots as you can jackknive. GN is great at prevent your friends from borrowing your trailer. Great off-road with the oscillation of the hitch and no WD hitch and bars hanging down.

It is not great at tight roads, not great for gas mileage, not great for loaning out. So you take your pick.

I have a 27 ft deck over bumper pull right now, its good but I would like a GN for hauling my tractor. I don't live in an urban area and my field accesses are wide for pulling balers and double haywagons. (Which is fun when its behind the baler)

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...not great for gas mileage

Really? Is there a difference in gas mileage between goosenecks and bumper type trailers?

 

[AGGIE00]

Well, no, not really. With a GN trailer if you're in a RH turn lane and there's a utility pole on that corner (very common across this country) and there's a filled turn lane on the cross street with people coming from your right to turn onto the street you're on (not allowing you to make a big sweeping turn), you're stuck with a GN trailer where a bumper pull or pintle hitch trailer can make that turn easily. Go back and read Slowzuki's post about how a GN trailer follows it's ball and cuts off the corner.

With proper tongue weight on a bumper pull or pintle hitch trailer, I've never had any "drama" in hundreds of thousands of miles of pulling trailers. If you have "drama" towing that way, it is you who drives like they are a Dukes of Hazzard wannabe. Otherwise, what you're thinking "in your mind" simply is not true. Sorry, facts just do not support it. If you need to back a trailer into a small space and need to jack-knife the trailer to do so, then a GN is the way to go. However, with my uses and needs, I never have the call to park my trailer that way. Besides, doing so with a heavy load is brutal on your trailer tires, wheels, bearings and axles.

Believe me, I would not have bought the GN trailers I had if I had not incorrectly thought the same as you for many years. So, believe me, I'm not making any judgments about your current thoughts; I was there and thought the same until it was proven differently to me. If you have weak rear springs, you may want to go with a GN trailer to compensate. The other issue is that GN trailers typically put much more weight on the ball by nature; most have their axles placed further towards the rear than a pintle hitch construction trailer. If you don't want to go with a dually (which I prefer myself anyway), it's not always the best setup with a SRW 1 ton pickup. You'll get more of your "drama" towing heavy with only 2 rear wheels than you want in many instances.

I'd say yes, really. For me it depends on weight. If I'm hauling light loads I'd rather a bp, but for my tractor or skidsteer it is only a gooseneck. It's not possible for me to fit my tractor or a smaller one on a bp and distribute the weight so that my receiver is not overloaded, but with a gooseneck I can pull the load all the way to the front of the trailer and be just fine. I do get a lot of drama with bp trailers and it has to do with the tongue being attached 4 feet behind my axle as opposed to a few inches in front of it.

I also don't see where a pintle hitch trailer behind a dump truck can be compared to a bp. They are not even remotely the same given bp axles ares till to the rear of the trailer and pinlte hitch trailers have them almost centered where tongue weight is minimal.