Which would you get, and why?

[handirifle]

First off, I hope this is the right place to post this.

I currently own a MF1010 tractor, with Gannon rollover scraper and FEL. I also own a near defunkt 20hp Murray riding mower. I have 3 acres and most of it is mowed. I have no more rocks or and huge obstacles to worry about the blades over, so the riding mower can handle it. The mower isn't dying because of the grass, it's dying due to poor engine design. This happened the day after I bought it (used) so it's not like I ran it into the ground cutting tall grass.

The field grass usually gets to 12-18" before it gets mowed, due to rain, and the first mowing it might be higher. Having said all that, I have no doubts the 24-26hp mowers I am looking at will handle it, but they are right at about $3,000, plus tax.

Now, I mentioned the MF1010 because I have wondered about selling the tractor, and salvaging what $$$ I can from the mower, and buying a Kubota BXxx, with turf tires,and with a belly mower, FEL and box, hopefully in the $7-8K range. A LOT of pro's to this idea, diesel power, lots of torque for the tall grass, most likely means I could go through at a little higher speed (less running time). One vehicle to maintain, instead of two. It would have 4WD (will discuss this shortly), and I'd only have to keep one fuel extra on hand. The BX has a belly PTO, so a drive shaft hookup, and plenty rugged.

Now the down side. Remember I mentioned 4WD? That would be a MUST, since one downside of the BX is weight, at least as far as mowers go. The lawn/garden tractors in the 24hp range weigh between 650 and 700lbs. The BX weighs over 1200. That is a big concern for me, since the lower part of my 3 acres, has standing water in areas. I do not mow there with anything, but I do get as close as possible though, and sometimes the riding mower gets stuck, and I am in the back pushing it out. I am concerned the BX will weigh TOO much and make it much worse when/if it does get stuck. Once I have hit those areas, I get close to them but will not run back over the same track, since I have no desire for a repeat performance.

Another downside to the BX is it would be putting a lot of hrs on it, just to mow. If I had a reliable mower, I would mow about once a month, maybe a little more often when the grass is really growing, but that means its fairly wet ground.

Also the turning radius of the BX is WAY larger then the riding mower.

I have planted about 7-8 new trees, and have that many old ones to mow around, as well. Because of the extra time they cause, I have even wondered about a zero turn, but $3K is my limit.

Do the zero turn mowers have true 2WD, not like a limited slip? Some of the grass I just mowed (1 1/2 month since last mowing, due to Murray breakdown) was almost waist high, would that be too much for a zero? I know the BX will handle any of my grass, but the weight issue worries me.

I do NOT want to consider a Bush Hog (do not need rough cut, once main stuff has been cut) or PTO finish mower for the MF since it has R1 tires and HAS gotten stuck less than halfway out the field, in areas my 4WD Toyota Tundra, goes with ease (to pull out said MF1010), and the Murray does not think twice about.

There are some hills, not huge but a little steep, and I have to hit those at certain angle to avoid any possibility of a roll over even with the Murray.

What are your thoughts/opinions on the BX weight vs 4WD issue? Would a zero be better than either? Are the Zero's more to keep up on, or are they as durable as the ride on mowers?

 

[ModMech]

All the ZTRs I know of are HST and you control direction by allowing or limiting hydraulic flow to the wheel motors on each side, so they are "real 2 wheel drive" in that sense.

What would I get? An older IH Cub with a MMM because I would get a REALLY nice, COOL, vintage Cub in great condition for well under $2000 and never have to worry I am working it too hard. Plus, there are a TON of other things it can do with a garden or general light farm duties that a BX would not like so much.

That is what I would do and it might not be what you are looking for.

 

[fredhargis]

I have one of those 25 HP ZT mowers, and mine is maybe one grade above the box stores...it would not handle 12-18" tall anything, at least not very easily. Mine struggles when it's 10" high with a 60" deck. The mower that does most of the work around my place (4 acres, with only a very small part that may be wet/standing water) is my tractor, and it weighs about 2000# with the mower. I think your concerns about the weight and the wetness are justified, but I'm at a lost as to what the solution might be. But where it will shine is with the extra torque and the taller grass. As for the hours, I don't see the problem...these tractors are made to work and doing so will not harm them. Let's see....oh,yeah: upkeep on the zero turns. They aren't bad, same as a large riding mower except you'll have to change hydraulic fluid/filters (drive system), and on mine (Dixon) the hydraulic fluid is actually motor oil. The BX will have that as well, along with a goodly number of things to be greased.

 

[kdm0811]

I have a Toro Z master zero turn with a 27 HP Kohler and a 60 inch deck. The unit is good on slopes and also in the mud. At 1100# is is very heavy if it gets stuck. On soft ground, you would want to reduce the rear tire pressure from 10 to 3-5 PSI. I have cut wast high grass and brush.

I also have a BX24. I don't have a belly mower for it. I have added wheel spacer weights that puts the unit at about 2800# without the backhoe. The wheels onthe BX are a little small to support the weight on soft soil. It does not have much ground clearance to begin with. And when it gets stuck, it gets REAL stuck.

You may want to consider oversized rear tires on a zero turn mower.

 

[handirifle]

Well it kinda sounds like the zeros in my price range might not be up to the taller grass and that is a big issue out here. It also sounds like the bx may well be just too heavy unfortunately. It looks like i might be better off with a mower
modmech
after this experience i am leery of buying any used mower. I have read some good comments about the older cubs but it might not be for me. Plus i may end up having to finance this thing at least till i can access my retirement account w@ithout penalty.

 

[fredhargis]

KDM0811 mentioned something I forgot...the weight. My ZT isn't as heavy as his, but it's still about 950#.

 

[LBrown59]

What are your thoughts/opinions on the BX weight vs 4WD issue?

I just sold a 2WD CC GT2554 garden tractor that I had replaced with a 4WD BX1500.
The BX has it all over the CC.
No way would I want to give up the BX and go back to the CC.
The CC was around 800 pounds and the BX rite about 1200 pounds.
I have several wet springs around on my 2.33 acres.
Just driving through them with either tractor was not a problem but the BX 4WD will go right through them with out spinning a wheel but when/if the 2WD CC would get to spinning it done far more turf damage in those wet spots than the BX 4WD will do. .

 

[Rustyiron]

Things must be a little diff on the left coast, at 12-18" (here) you need to make hay!

 

[Grandad4]

Here are a couple other thoughts in addition to what the others have said.

You didn't say if your 1010 was 2wd or 4wd and what tires it has. If it's 2wd with turf tires, a 4wd with ag tires would make a huge difference in wet, muddy or otherwise slick conditions. A 4wd BX with ag tires will run circles around a garden/lawn tractor in such conditions, even though it weighs more.

That said, why not look at the Kubota B series (others make similar equipment, but Kubota seems to lead in this size category)? Similar weight to the BX, but higher ground clearance and larger tires for more traction.

If you're letting the grass grow a foot or more between mowings, it's not like you are maintaining it like the fairway at the country club, so maybe a brush cutter mower could give you an acceptable cut. We do that with our place and it works just fine. Either that or a 3pt finish mower might let you back the mower into some places you don't want to drive over.

I'm not an expert on ZTR's, but they are not all that much lighter than a BX, and lack the 4WD and clearance also. Reportedly not the best choice on rough or steep terrain or soft ground.

 

[handirifle]

Here are a couple other thoughts in addition to what the others have said.

You didn't say if your 1010 was 2wd or 4wd and what tires it has. If it's 2wd with turf tires, a 4wd with ag tires would make a huge difference in wet, muddy or otherwise slick conditions. A 4wd BX with ag tires will run circles around a garden/lawn tractor in such conditions, even though it weighs more.

That said, why not look at the Kubota B series (others make similar equipment, but Kubota seems to lead in this size category)? Similar weight to the BX, but higher ground clearance and larger tires for more traction.

If you're letting the grass grow a foot or more between mowings, it's not like you are maintaining it like the fairway at the country club, so maybe a brush cutter mower could give you an acceptable cut. We do that with our place and it works just fine. Either that or a 3pt finish mower might let you back the mower into some places you don't want to drive over.

I'm not an expert on ZTR's, but they are not all that much lighter than a BX, and lack the 4WD and clearance also. Reportedly not the best choice on rough or steep terrain or soft ground.

My 1010 IS 4WD and has R1 (Ag) tires on it, that's part of the problem. It will sink in to the axles before I can get anywhere near where the mowers can go. That was why I specifically ruled out the PTO mowers in the above post. Trust me it would be a LOT cheaper to pick up even a new finish mower for the PTO, than a new riding mower. I can get used PTO mowers for $500-600 fairly easy, but I couldn't get to half what the riding mowers can reach. THAT was why I was concerned about the weight of the BX. And in this case, turf tires would be my tire of choice, because they spread the weight out on a larger footprint.

Rustyiron
Yea, The easiest way to solve this would be to get a cow and "make beef" but I don't want to have to babysit an animal at this point and time. I am already "watching" my daughter's 2 dogs and am looking forward to when they're gone. I'm done with animals, personally. Maybe someday, it might become a survival/barter situation, but for now I will pass on that.

As for the hay, I'd have to be able to run a tractor to harvest and it would get stuck pulling heavy equipment.

Lbrown59
Interesting. Is the dirt around your springs very soft? I live in the bottom of a bowl, basically. I just planted a clump of white birch trees this afternoon and when I dug the hole about 16" deep, there was standing water in the last two inches of it. That's the way it is here, pretty much all over. The soil is rich black top soil, but woe to anyone that drives a heavy service truck or tractor on it. You WILL get stuck.

 

[Grandad4]

Well, Handirifle, you've got me scratching my head. If your place is so swampy that your 1010 is dropping to the axles, then the other typical tractor setups are probably not going to be much better. You might explore something with R3 turf tires instead of the R1's, I guess. They have a much wider footprint so your ground compression is less. But that seems to me to be an expensive gamble, since you won't really know if it's going to work until "you pays your money and takes your chances".

 

[Diamondpilot]

Cutting grass that tall with anything other than a bush hog is going to take years off the life of whatever you end up buying.

You will simply kill new equipment mowing 18" of grass with anything other than a bush hog first.

I maintain a fleet of commercial mowers for a company and while the ZTR's are amazing they do have limits.

Chris

 

[handirifle]

I thought I would post a couple pics of the areas in question.

First is the lower half of the property. The tall strip of grass is a seasonal creek, and the grass/weeds in it are about 4ft tall. The large area in the upper left part of the picture, is standing water, and the grass is 3-4ft tall there as well. The areas either side of the creek have been mowed in the last couple days, by me and the poor old Murray.

I do not plan on letting the grass get much over 12" before I mow, maybe less, when I have a good reliable mower, but I do not wish to push the Murray any more than I have to. If I wait till it's dry it will be mid July and the grass will ALL be 4ft tall. Besides, I like to keep it looking nice like it is now.:thumbsup:

I took the pics on my cell phone, sorry they can't be larger.

It's really not all that bad, like I said, I'd keep it lower, if I was sure the mower would work every time I needed it.

The second pic is a little closer, and it part of the upper part of the property.

This one shows the creek also. The birch tree is the one I just planted, and when I dug the hole, 16" deep, there was water in the bottom couple inches. I'm hoping it dries enough to not kill my new tree. To the right of the tree is standing water as well, although not as deep as the lower part. This part I can run the mower through, if I go fast enough.

 

[Grandad4]

Here's an unconventional solution to consider:

Ventrac Compact Tractors & Attachments
Steiner Tractors and Attachments
Versatile Tractors,Compact Tractors,Trailer Packages,Landscaping,Utility Vehicle Rentals,Mowers-Power Trac

These outfits make equipment suited for unconventional terrain. While they are particularly noted for working on slopes and hills, they also offer some capability for dealing with sandy or soft conditions requiring low compaction. I think they even have dual wheel kits.

They require customized attachments, but might offer you some capabilities beyond that of a conventional lawn tractor or compact tractor.

You'll have to check availability on the left coast. If you've got a dealer reasonably close, maybe you could arrange a demo on your property.

 

[handirifle]

Here's an unconventional solution to consider:

Ventrac Compact Tractors & Attachments
Steiner Tractors and Attachments
Versatile Tractors,Compact Tractors,Trailer Packages,Landscaping,Utility Vehicle Rentals,Mowers-Power Trac

These outfits make equipment suited for unconventional terrain. While they are particularly noted for working on slopes and hills, they also offer some capability for dealing with sandy or soft conditions requiring low compaction. I think they even have dual wheel kits.

They require customized attachments, but might offer you some capabilities beyond that of a conventional lawn tractor or compact tractor.

You'll have to check availability on the left coast. If you've got a dealer reasonably close, maybe you could arrange a demo on your property.

Seems like someone pointed me towards those before, and I found they are WAY out of my price range. Actually I got very interested in the Kubota GR2120, but at 8K new, it too, is too much for my budget. I think!

 

[Grandad4]

They are not cheap, that's for sure. I think they are often used in professional lanscaping applications like golf course maintenance, etc., and I guess they also reflect the cost structure of something manufactured in the US. Every once in a while I see a used one up for sale on Craig's, although it may be in some other part of the US. The Stiener's and Ventrac's originated in Ohio near where I grew up, and they seem to be a bit more popular around there.