Bumper Vs. Gooseneck Payloads

[Iplayfarmer]

Without arguing the SPECIFIC figures you offered.... (yet)
The simple point is that with a goose you are "CARRYING" more of the load,
with a bumper-pull the TRAILER is doing the "CARRYING".
So yes, it is often true - especially with 1/2 ton trucks.

OK, now lets niggle away at the specific numbers that you offered;
(-:
I think the 25% is high, quite possibly worst case.
Many/most goose neck trailers have very little load "up there, over the truck".
MOST of the load for MOST owners is on the floor, which puts it at least 8ft 6 in back from the coupler.
Your horses are likely farther back than that, e.g. behind the tack room if you have one and pretty much ON the axles.
I would figure closer to 20%, possibly 15% on the pin.
Even then.... ??? .....Yeah you would have to get down to 10% for a match with a 1K payload limit.

Ah Hahh !!!
Mayhap 1/2 ton trucks aren't very good at that PAYLOAD thang ? (-:

OTOH, I'm not THAT comfortable with the thought of 10K wiggling around on a ball BEHIND a 1/2 ton truck either (-:

Thanks for chiming in, Reg.

A few things I've learned since I started this discussion have led me to the conclusion that my payload capacity is more or less the same between gooseneck and bumper pull trailers. My particular truck is rated to handle a bit more tongue weight with a gooseneck, but the recommended percentage of the load is also higher. The other thing that factors into the equation is that the maximum tongue weight combined with the minimum percentage will exceed the rated trailer weight for the truck anyway regardless of whether it's a gooseneck or a bumper pull.

In other words, I run out of truck capacity before I reach the limit when the small difference between bumper pull and gooseneck becomes an issue.

 

[AGGIE00]

At the end of the day it is not what is written on the sticker that makes it safe or OK. If you know your truck and how it handles loads you will use it to its ability. My truck is rated to tow 15k, but with air bags and a GN trailer I am comfortable with 25k behind it. On the other hand a poorly loaded 10k bumper pull is scary and I won't pull it.

 

[Reg]

At the end of the day it is not what is written on the sticker that makes it safe or OK. If you know your truck and how it handles loads you will use it to its ability. My truck is rated to tow 15k, but with air bags and a GN trailer I am comfortable with 25k behind it. On the other hand a poorly loaded 10k bumper pull is scary and I won't pull it.

At the "end of the day" ???
How VERY nicely phrased.

Your comfort level towing 25K may well be overridden by the officer at the weigh station.
i.e. Your rig could stay there ALL NIGHT, ALL the next day, and until someone comes to off load it until it is below whatever the sticker DOES say,
or until it get hooked to a bigger truck.
Either way, Ya ain't leavin' there 10K over, no matter WHAT your level of comfort.

 

[AGGIE00]

At the "end of the day" ???
How VERY nicely phrased.

Your comfort level towing 25K may well be overridden by the officer at the weigh station.
i.e. Your rig could stay there ALL NIGHT, ALL the next day, and until someone comes to off load it until it is below whatever the sticker DOES say,
or until it get hooked to a bigger truck.
Either way, Ya ain't leavin' there 10K over, no matter WHAT your level of comfort.

This is academic and exactly what I am talking about. Knowing the law is easy, but knowing what you can safely tow takes experience. Some of us come from the farm where you do what you need to as long as it is safe, and sometimes that means stretching the law and other times just because the the law says its ok it is not safe. Congratulations on your understanding of the rule book.

And FYI, a one ton truck grossing 35k with good electric over hydraulic brakes is far safer than a half ton truck grossing 10k and no trailer brakes with an inexperienced driver.

 

[two_bit_score]

This is academic and exactly what I am talking about. Knowing the law is easy, but knowing what you can safely tow takes experience. Some of us come from the farm where you do what you need to as long as it is safe, and sometimes that means stretching the law and other times just because the the law says its ok it is not safe. Congratulations on your understanding of the rule book.

And FYI, a one ton truck grossing 35k with good electric over hydraulic brakes is far safer than a half ton truck grossing 10k and no trailer brakes with an inexperienced driver.

Oooohboy.

 

[tractorboy5500]

Oooohboy.

I know what you mean, someone else who thinks he is above the law:laughing:

 

[Iplayfarmer]

This is academic and exactly what I am talking about. Knowing the law is easy, but knowing what you can safely tow takes experience. Some of us come from the farm where you do what you need to as long as it is safe, and sometimes that means stretching the law and other times just because the the law says its ok it is not safe. Congratulations on your understanding of the rule book.

And FYI, a one ton truck grossing 35k with good electric over hydraulic brakes is far safer than a half ton truck grossing 10k and no trailer brakes with an inexperienced driver.

This reminds me of an analogy I heard from the Car Talk guys. If you're driving down the road and close your eyes for 15 seconds and nothing bad happens, that doesn't mean that you're now always safe to close your eyes for 15 seconds whenever you feel like it. Just because you've gotten away with pushing the limits before, doesn't mean that you're being safe doing it now.

To your point, experience and knowing your vehicle are essential to safe towing. Just remember, that inexperienced driver of the 10K half ton thinks he's safe too. I heard a statistic once that 75% of drivers think they're better than average. I'd bet it's the other 25% that are the best drivers. We should all probably evaluate what category we fit into... The 75% that think they're good, or the 25% that know %&$# happens and take appropriate precautions.

 

[AGGIE00]

I know what you mean, someone else who thinks he is above the law:laughing:

Not above the law, but willing to pay the fine when it comes.

 

[HHR]

Nobody is mentioning weight distribution bumper pull hitches. Does anyone use these anymore? I towed with one on a 3000 mile trip to Alaska and now hate having to use standard drawbar.

 

[tractorboy5500]

Not above the law, but willing to pay the fine when it comes.

Didnt really mean to sound like an but head, just reading your other post about your truck is rated for 15k and you said you can haul 25k, thats about 40 to 45% more than its rated for, thats like me saying I am good for 24K and I am ok with 34K, Their no way I can be ok with that, got to remember if getting into an accident, the other person lawyer would have a field day with this kind of stuff. just be safe.

 

[AGGIE00]

Didnt really mean to sound like an but head, just reading your other post about your truck is rated for 15k and you said you can haul 25k, thats about 40 to 45% more than its rated for, thats like me saying I am good for 24K and I am ok with 34K, Their no way I can be ok with that, got to remember if getting into an accident, the other person lawyer would have a field day with this kind of stuff. just be safe.

Took it that way, but thats ok. Used to have a class A and hauled some big iron through your neighborhood. Following the manual doesn't make the load safe and hauling a lawnmower on a trailer doesn't make one experienced.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Nobody is mentioning weight distribution bumper pull hitches. Does anyone use these anymore? I towed with one on a 3000 mile trip to Alaska and now hate having to use standard drawbar.

I used one with a camp trailer. It really makes a difference. One of the goals in re-building my trailer (now that I've decided to go bumper pull) is to make it compatible with a WD hitch. I don't think I'll use it all the time, but if I'm pushing the limit of my truck and trailer capacity, I'll probably use it.

 

[Rancher Ed]

Just reading your other post about your truck is rated for 15k and you said you can haul 25k, thats about 40 to 45% more than its rated for, thats like me saying I am good for 24K and I am ok with 34K, Their no way I can be ok with that, got to remember if getting into an accident, the other person lawyer would have a field day with this kind of stuff. just be safe.

In some states your example would be fine. You can take a 1ton doully that has a factory GCWR of ~24k and register it like a semi but only 36k and then hook up to a 24k tandem doully gooseneck trailer and load all the way to 36k and be legal. You would need a CDL to do this if it is not farm use but if the brakes are matained you would be safe and legal. I don't know if I would do this but it can be done safely and legally.

Ed

 

[fowllife]

Well AGGIE00 does bring up some fairly interesting points. It seems like there are basically 2 groups of people here. One that looks at stickers and ratings, and nothing else and always makes sure they are under that rating. And then the other group that knows the limitations of their equipment and themselves and go with that regardless of the little stickers.

In my opinion it really depends on where you are, and what you are doing. Being a commercial driver and driving across the country over your sticker weight is a lot different then the local farmer driving 5 miles from one farm to another being double his sticker.

It seems that weight debates always turn into being sticker & legal debates. The sticker weight is set by the manf. with a certain CYA factor and assuming you are going to be driving at 65 mph. The legal side will follow the sticker regardless of any common sense & based on the same assumptions. If you look at semi, or dump trucks, the only difference in the legal capacity of some of them is what a little piece of paper says. Semi's are maxed out at 80k because thats what is "safe" for the roads and everything else. With a piece of paper from the gov that same tractor can pull 120k as a permitted load. If I say that I pulled a 18k load without brakes with my 1/2 ton rated for a 8k trailer I would get hammered with legal/sticker stuff. Now if I say that 18k load was a gravity wagon full of corn that I pulled 8 miles from one farm to the other with a max speed of 20 mph and an SMV sign some would understand and say I was pushing it a little, but OK. Others would cry legal weight and say I wasn't safe.

So what I'm saying is what works for me may not work for you. I have NEVER heard of a non com truck get pulled over around here and get checked for weight. But if I was a for hire/com driver going cross country on the interstate I would follow my legal numbers. And yeah I don't drive for a living, but I do have my class A CDL, combination, air......

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Reg]

Not above the law, but willing to pay the fine when it comes.

Save your lecturette for the guys in uniform, most of us here have at least a good enough working knowledge when it comes to hauling and doing it legally.

They must LOVE you and your attitude at the weigh stations, if you have ever even BEEN weighed yet.

"Look here rookie, I just KNOW that this rig is safe 5 tons over what the durned stickers say, so why don't Ya just waive me through ?"
"I'm a farm boy, I know WAY more than them thar engine_ears that just put numbers on stickers about what breaks where."
"OK, I'll give Ya the twenty bux, now I'm leavin' here."

YOU can leave, the RIG stays until it is legal.

 

[AGGIE00]

Save your lecturette for the guys in uniform, most of us here have at least a good enough working knowledge when it comes to hauling and doing it legally.

They must LOVE you and your attitude at the weigh stations, if you have ever even BEEN weighed yet.

"Look here rookie, I just KNOW that this rig is safe 5 tons over what the durned stickers say, so why don't Ya just waive me through ?"
"I'm a farm boy, I know WAY more than them thar engine_ears that just put numbers on stickers about what breaks where."
"OK, I'll give Ya the twenty bux, now I'm leavin' here."

YOU can leave, the RIG stays until it is legal.

Well here's another lecturette since you need it. Every now and then I would run an International 9400 with a 50t eager beaver lowboy. It is licensed to gross 80k. I hauled a crane to Pearland that put me at 115k. To make that happen I bought a permit for overweight and overwidth. Yes I did get weighed, but really they only pulled me over to see if I had the correct permit knowing I was overweight. Now that we run a skidsteer I bough a utility gooseneck trailer to keep DOT off my butt because they will pull me over checking for cdl and weight configuration if I have a tandem dovetail with dualls. Still a rookie? I know the law and have worked within it, but am making the argument that stickers aren't the end all. I know that just because you have hauled your lawnmower on a 4x6 trailer you are an experienced truck driver, but try and understand my point.

 

[xtn]

Not all of us law abiders obey the law due to a lack of common sense. Some of us know that we could haul more than we are - in some circumstances - and do it safely. We just choose to follow the law anyway.

 

[AGGIE00]

Not all of us law abiders obey the law due to a lack of common sense. Some of us know that we could haul more than we are - in some circumstances - and do it safely. We just choose to follow the law anyway.

Good for you and I also suppose that means you never speed or right turn on red without coming to a complete stop.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...just because you have hauled your lawnmower on a 4x6 trailer you are an experienced truck driver...

Common, Man!! You just blew my whole identity. I gave up my woodworker identity when I quit sitting on the couch in the family room watching Norm Abrams. My cool identity was totally shot when we traded in the LTZ sedan for a minivan. Now you've crushed my experienced truck driver status. All I have left are a bunch of broken down lawn mowers in the back of the pasture. I must be a mechanic.

 

[Rancher Ed]

They must LOVE you and your attitude at the weigh stations, if you have ever even BEEN weighed yet.

"Look here rookie, I just KNOW that this rig is safe 5 tons over what the durned stickers say, so why don't Ya just waive me through ?"
"I'm a farm boy, I know WAY more than them thar engine_ears that just put numbers on stickers about what breaks where."
"OK, I'll give Ya the twenty bux, now I'm leavin' here."

YOU can leave, the RIG stays until it is legal.

I don't know about AGGIE00 but many people take 1 tons grossing between 30k and 36k through weigh stations with no problems. (They have CDLs) It is all in how it is registered. What happens is they get apportioned plates from the fed DOT and bypass the state altogether. When they do this they can weigh whatever they want as long as they have paid for that weight and don't go over any of the axel ratings (if they have the right license). Also, I believe they can do the same thing with farm tags in many states, pay for the weight and if you stay under the axel ratings you are fine. A lot of the big trailers they use have electric over hydraulic disc brakes and they can stop in a shorter distance than a half ton with a 7k trailer with brakes on one axel.

I think the way vehicles are plated and the different classes of licenses for drivers could be much better but the way it is now these things can be done legally.

Ed