Backhoe installation

[smalltown]

Just thinking out loud here. If I purchased a 2320 or 2520 without the backhoe would it be a "bear" to add one later.

From time to time I see them used. Usually they are in good shape.

I realize that if ordered with the tractor it would come with a power beyond kit installed. Not knowing hydraulics that sounds like a diverter and a port to get hydo fluid to the rear of the tractor? I also imagine that the backhoe must require a lot of "bulling" to get the backhoe frame to slide underneath the tractor to be secured by quite a few bolts.

My preference would be installed at the dealer, but if it's not a nighmare then it would open up many more possibilites especially buying used without the backhoe.

Am I out of my mind for even considering it?

P.S. Just talked to a dealer and I wasn't aware that on both the 2320 and the 2520 with a backhoe frame installed that not only must the mower deck must be removed, but the mowing deck frame also. I thought the 2320 was ok wih the mower emoveed. He did suggest that if ordered that way I order the power beyond even without the backhoe.

 

[RoyJackson]

I think you'll find the most cost effective way is to buy the backhoe when you buy the tractor. That way, you can spread the payments out over 4 or 5 years.
You'll also be getting a backhoe that fits your tractor. Those backhoes you see used may not fit your tractor without modifications or may not be compatable with your tractor. You may have to design and build your own subframe, for example.

 

[smalltown]

Sorry to drive everybody crazy with these questions. I figure the only difference between me and Hosni Mubarak is that he had a heart attack, because of the uprising in Eqypt, but mine will be over a tractor purchase.

Roy thanks I would only buy a #46 John Deere backhoe so it would fit without any modification.

I was thinking afterward (when I calmed down) that if I did buy a new tractor without a backhoe it would make sense to purchase the power beyond installed in case I wanted to add the backhoe later.

P.S. I learned an interesting thing today talking to Muttons. The MMM cannot be on the tractor when the backhoe is installed. As a matter of fact you need to remove all the mounting harware for the mower deck. I thought that was only for the 2520, but I was told for the 2320 too.
So that sounds like a pain and an awful lot of work/time if somebody wanted to put the mower back on.

I guess that means if you want to install the mower you need to remove the backhoe frame? Does anybody know if that's the case?

 

[Rob-D]

Sorry to drive everybody crazy with these questions. I figure the only difference between me and Hosni Mubarak is that he had a heart attack, because of the uprising in Eqypt, but mine will be over a tractor purchase.

Roy thanks I would only buy a #46 John Deere backhoe so it would fit without any modification.

I was thinking afterward (when I calmed down) that if I did buy a new tractor without a backhoe it would make sense to purchase the power beyond installed in case I wanted to add the backhoe later.

If you're getting the tractor new than have them put on the beyond for you, makes life a lot easier and you can use it for log splitters and rear attachments if you decide not to get the hoe after all.

The sub frame for the 2320 is different than the sub for the 2520/2720 as they are longer tractors (just so you know).

If you're handy you can put the BH frame on yourself without too much trouble. When I went from a 2320 to a 2720 I did all the changing over myself and it wasn't that bad at all.

Your dealer is right, you can't have the mower on with the hoe, you can't have a front blower on with the hoe either. It's not hard to change them over but what i found was that I always had the hoe on when I needed to mow and the mower on when I needed to dig holes! Then it became a pain in the neck so I got a dedicated mower (ztrac) and got rid of the 62D deck.

Now I have the 3320 and the BH stays on all winter even with the front blower on. Life is a little easier but a little costlier!

Rob

 

[smalltown]

Rob do you agree that the mower deck and hardware must come off when the backhoe is installed for the 2320 also?

I was just talking to the wife about what a pain it might be swapping things around.

Just reread you post did you mean to say that the backhoe frames for the #46 backhoe are themselves different from the 2320 to the 2520?
I was looking at them tonight and yes I could see where they appeared different. So if they are I would also need to locate a #46 with a frame mount specifid to either a 2320 or a 2520 tractor.

 

[tkoza]

my 2210 came without backhoe

i added a subframe mounted JD260

tools required
a very good hex wrench metric or sae -the hole is smaller due to paint
metric box wrenches
3/8" metric ratchet kit both 6 and 12 pt
1/2" metric ratchet kit both 6 and 12 pt
a torque multiplying lever - ie peice of pipe

i installed the powerbeyond - this was the hardest part because the trans case is epoxy painted and an internal hex plug needed to be removed - lots of stress not to mess the hex on the plug up - the rest was easy

i installed the subframe my self - i had one fitment issue with the frame clearing a rear axel stress member and the backhoe frame needed grinding - 30min of time

total time spent on the power beyond and subframe 12-16 hrs from start to finish - you will most likely need to remove the ROPS and rear fenders and seat - thus you will need 1/2" sockets and a strong arm

i need to remove my 3pt arms to install the backhoe but i can leave my deck on if i am lazy i just lock it in the up position

even if i remove the arms and deck my total change over time is less than 30 min each way - well worth the extra muscle the backhoe provides

in my case there were spacers that came with my JD quick attach that fit perfectly where my three point arms attach to the frame so i sub them in - and the fit is just enough that i do not have to remove a rear wheel to remove the 3pt arms

as long as you block the backhoe in an elevated position it installs in 5min from backup to drive away - the secret is to use the side supports(to hook the lower framse supports) and the dipper(upper frame pins) to do the heavy work

i also have two 2' peices of QD hyd hose just in case i cannot keep backhoe elevated FOR STORAGE

in my case the best 5 grand i ever spent - the 260 may be small but i can still dig my own grave

i have a 8" and a 16" bucket - and i use the 16" the most

just get a subframe model need it not be john deere - and enjoy

 

[smalltown]

"the 260 may be small but i can still dig my own grave"

Now that's funny :laughing:

 

[smalltown]

Rob was your time to change from backhoe to mower or back like tkoza when tou had the 2320?

Just took a quick look at the Deere web site configurator and
"The 46 Backhoe is not Compatible with a Mid-Mount Mower Deck", and right there in front of me the subframe mountings are different for the 2320 and 2520. So I think I answered my question that the 2320 has the same restrictions as the 2520?

Better to know that now than later.

 

[roygul]

I've heard some people use a rear finish mower instead of the mid mount. May save some time swapping over to the hoe

Cheers
Byron

 

[Rob-D]

Rob do you agree that the mower deck and hardware must come off when the backhoe is installed for the 2320 also?

I was just talking to the wife about what a pain it might be swapping things around.

Just reread you post did you mean to say that the backhoe frames for the #46 backhoe are themselves different from the 2320 to the 2520?
I was looking at them tonight and yes I could see where they appeared different. So if they are I would also need to locate a #46 with a frame mount specifid to either a 2320 or a 2520 tractor.

Yes, the deck and hardware had to come off on my 2006 2320 and yes the mounting frame is different on the 2320 and the 2520/2720. The latter are longer tractors and the sub frame is thus longer for them. I'm sure of this because I went from the 2320 to the 2720 which has the same chassis as the 2520. By the way the sub frame goes for 900 bucks or so, at least that's what it cost back in 2008. I see a lot of people thinking they can simply move up up from the 2320 to the 2520 or 2720 if they want more power and thinking all the attachments just get moved along. Not so.
Besides the BH sub frame the whole 62D MMM and the hardware for the front snow blower are different. However, going form the 2520 to the 2720 is a simple transition and the parts are the same for both.
Bottom line is, learn from my mistakes. I went from the 2320 to the 2720 thinking I'd get a lot more tractor. While the 2520 and the 2720 are nicer tractors in my view you don't get any more in the rock shaft or the front loader, just more PTO hp. If this is all you need than fine but if you need more loader/rock shaft power go to the 3x20 series.
It's a tough position because new owners don't really know what they can do or will want to do until they really spend some time on these machines. That's something you can't determine spending a couple of hours playing in a dealer's sand lot.

As my dealer says "Nobody comes in here to trade down" so my advice is to get a little more tractor than you think you need.

Rob

 

[goldenwings]

I have a 2520 w/ MMM and a BH. I have an older 2520 with the older mechanical lift as well. In order to switch from mowing, to digging the lift linkage and MMM must be removed.

This process realistically takes about 10-15 minutes to completely swap over (after youve done it a few times). The first couple times, try not and get frustrated when it takes you 20-30 minutes. Also try and keep the BH on as level of ground as possible for when you install/uninstall it. The only tools I require to get the BH on and off are a hammer to pull/tap on front pins and a rag to wipe the grease off your hands after pulling the rear pins that hold the 3 point linkage. Other than that, it's just a little bit of maneuvering to get things lined up.

PS. you may want to snap a quick photo of the way the linkage goes back onto the rear pins "below" the axle, it just helps to have a quick reference which piece to slide on first.

 

[Rob-D]

I've heard some people use a rear finish mower instead of the mid mount. May save some time swapping over to the hoe

Cheers
Byron

That's not a bad idea but my thinking is that if you put a little more money into it you can get a dedicated mower that is designed for mowing only and be better off. After all a rear finishing mower will set you back around $2500.00 or so for a decent one. Put in another grand or 1500 bucks and you can get a fairly good dedicated mower. I went for a ztrac the year after I bought my tractor so it buffered my bill and I just get on and mow....really fast because that's what it's designed for.

It's like those table saws that do several tasks. Looks good until you see that you're all set up and in the middle of ripping boards when you need to drill holes. Sure you can do it but I personally don't want to and I'll bet I'm not alone.

Compact tractors are great and with the Imatch you can go from one tool to the next relatively easily but mowing is a different story. Talk to the guys around here, most go to dedicated machines if they can afford to. The 62D deck for my 2320 was around $2400.00 and when it was on there wasn't much else I could do. It got so that I dreaded using it. That's real life not looking at a brochure dreaming about what you'll do with your new machine.

Rob

 

[smalltown]

I thought I understod for a minute. Rob-d you say I must also remove the backhoe subframe also to be able to reinstall the mower deck ans associated hardware.

goldenwngs are you saying you don't remove the subframe?

I sounds like the backhoe and then the subframe must be completly removed to start reinstalling the mower hardware then the mower.

That sounds like a long (hours process).

 

[Rob-D]

I thought I understod for a minute. Rob-d you say I must also remove the backhoe subframe also to be able to reinstall the mower deck ans associated hardware.

goldenwngs are you saying you don't remove the subframe?

I sounds like the backhoe and then the subframe must be completly removed to start reinstalling the mower hardware then the mower.

That sounds like a long (hours process).

The BH sub frame is permanently bolted to the BH. They come of as one piece, maybe this is where you're getting confused.

Realistically I'd say it took about 20 to 25 minutes to go from the BH to the MMM. Personally it wasn't something I wanted to do every time I mowed. To each his own. Besides I had the hydro lift for the MMM and as anyone around here will tell you it sucks! Whenever you're mowing in the top position it slowly drops down. Go test ride a ztrac and then tell me which you'd rather do your mowing with.

Rob

 

[goldenwings]

I thought I understod for a minute. Rob-d you say I must also remove the backhoe subframe also to be able to reinstall the mower deck ans associated hardware.

goldenwngs are you saying you don't remove the subframe?

I sounds like the backhoe and then the subframe must be completly removed to start reinstalling the mower hardware then the mower.

That sounds like a long (hours process).

The BH/Subframe are bolted together "permanently" It could be taken apart to mount a diff. subframe to put onto a different model tractor, but the BH and subframe arent meant to come apart regularly. So when i remove the BH the subframe is coming off with it.

 

[goldenwings]

That's not a bad idea but my thinking is that if you put a little more money into it you can get a dedicated mower that is designed for mowing only and be better off. After all a rear finishing mower will set you back around $2500.00 or so for a decent one. Put in another grand or 1500 bucks and you can get a fairly good dedicated mower. I went for a ztrac the year after I bought my tractor so it buffered my bill and I just get on and mow....really fast because that's what it's designed for.

It's like those table saws that do several tasks. Looks good until you see that you're all set up and in the middle of ripping boards when you need to drill holes. Sure you can do it but I personally don't want to and I'll bet I'm not alone.

Compact tractors are great and with the Imatch you can go from one tool to the next relatively easily but mowing is a different story. Talk to the guys around here, most go to dedicated machines if they can afford to. The 62D deck for my 2320 was around $2400.00 and when it was on there wasn't much else I could do. It got so that I dreaded using it. That's real life not looking at a brochure dreaming about what you'll do with your new machine.

Rob

I agree with this as well, but as long as we can dream, I'd rather have an excavator with far greater breakout force than the little tractor mounted BH's. Even the "mini" excavators have significantly greater digging forces than do any tractor mounted BH's that I've seen/used. Then perhaps a Ferris Zero Turn, and a tractor for the remaining tasks.

 

[Rob-D]

I agree with this as well, but as long as we can dream, I'd rather have an excavator with far greater breakout force than the little tractor mounted BH's. Even the "mini" excavators have significantly greater digging forces than do any tractor mounted BH's that I've seen/used. Then perhaps a Ferris Zero Turn, and a tractor for the remaining tasks.

My 485 hoe wasn't cheap but it does everything I require of it and it slips off with two pins in 5 minutes, in fact I just pulled it off to put on the front work lights. They really got that mounting right. Besides the hoe sits on all winter even with the front blower on. I'll remove it now to till the garden but otherwise it just stays attached.

Don't get me wrong the 46 hoe comes off and goes on without too much trouble and if you don't mind doing it to mow every week than fine. It wasn't for me.

Rob

 

[smalltown]

Yes I am really misunderstanding something important. Sorry to beat a dead horse.

Here is what I think I understand please correct me if in error.

#46 Backhoe basically has two big sections.
1: section that has the boom and seat and outriggers etc.
2: section called the subframe that is installed and bolted to the tractor frame and specific to the model tractor.

At some point section 1 is attached to section 2 and bolted to the tractor.

Normally when the operator wants to remove the backhoe (maybe to use the 3PH) just the section 1 (boom, outriggers seat) can be detached from the tractor (reasonabl amout of time)leaving the subframe section 2 still bolted to the tractor frame.

A problem arrises when you want to install the mower deck hardware as the remaining section 2 subframe blocks the mower deck hardware installation.

To resolve the issue the remaining section 2 backhoe subframe must be removed from the tractor (long period of time). In essence the backhoe and "all" assemblies are removed as if you never had a backhoe on the tractor.

If I have it wrong (wouldn't be the first time ) PM your tel number and I will call you or I can call you with your tel number.

 

[Runner]

"2: section called the subframe that is installed and bolted to the tractor frame and specific to the model tractor."

This is incorrect.

The backhoe comes from the factory in two pieces (three, if you count the bucket, five, if you count the stabilizers). The two main pieces are the subframe and the backhoe assembly itself. It only comes in two pieces for ease of shipping.

Before you do anything else, you bolt the subframe to the rest of the hoe.

To attach the hoe to the tractor, you have to remove the mower deck, all of the attachment brackets (plus the hydraulic lift assembly, if you have that option) and all of the three-point assembly.

Then, to attach the hoe, you back over it with the tractor until the hooks on the subframe slip over the pins on the rear axle. Then, you hook up the hudraulics and use the stabilizers and the dipper stick to adjust the front of the subframe so the holes match up with the brackets (which stay attached to the loader mounts). Put in the pins and you're ready to rock.

This process is a little easier if you have a dolly for your hoe.

You cannot have a MMM and the backhoe on the 2520 at the same time.

I bought my hoe separate from the tractor, but I was glad that I had power beyond installed on the tractor when I bought it. Assembling the hoe and the attaching brackets on the tractor was not hard at all. This process is easier if you have pallet forks to get the hoe off the trailer or truck and to move this stuff around before you get it assembled.

Hope this helps.

 

[Rob-D]

"2: section called the subframe that is installed and bolted to the tractor frame and specific to the model tractor."

This is incorrect.

No, this is wrong.

The sub frame is bolted to the back hoe not the tractor! The sub frame has no bolts or wrenches needed to hook it to the 2x20 tractors.

To remove the BH you remove only pins and then move the tractor forward leaving the BH and sub frame (which are premanently bolted together and remain as one unit) behind. (pictures 1 & 3)