Fuel Injection for Ford 8N?

[speedracing944]

I am thinking of converting my new to me 1947 Ford 8N to fuel injection and Electronic Discharge Ignition System and do away with the old carb and points and condensors. It would maintain the govenor to regulate engine speed. The fuel injection would give it more reliable starts and allow the motor to run at a higher efficiency.

Has anybody done this?

Speedy

 

[john_bud]

Not that I've heard, but it sounds pretty cool.

Are you planning on adapting a 4cyl car FI and computer to the 8n or go with an aftermarket kit ?

jb

 

[speedracing944]

I would use the standalone system by megasquirt. This is a standalone which gives you complete control of every engine parameter including air/fuel ratios and ignition timing. I would use the Ford (car) 4 cylinder EDIS ignition system which runs off of a 36-1 crank mounted trigger wheel.

What is great about the megasquirt is you can adapt it to anything from a single cylinder lawnmower engine to a 12 cylinder F1 motor turning at 16,000 rpm.

This is the same system I have built to run the Corvette LT1 motor in my 944S

It appears to be an easy modification to design and put together.

Speedy

 

[john_bud]

Gotta link for megasquirt?

jb

 

[Soundguy]

Wow.. what a waste of money on a poor breathing engine like that.

For less money and work you could simply get a NAA and be probably near the same power

There are 2 common 'drop-in' electronic ignition kits.. a hobby kit that still uses breakers as a trigger, and a tru breakerless kit which comes in a few styles, even one allowing you to use a hot non oem round coil and wider plug gaps..

Do that.. get domed mercury pistons, snath the liners out and run bare in the block.. mill the head to min clearance, have a hot rot shop work over the cam, relieve the head for clearance .. get new rotaing valves, have the block bored for cam bearing inserts.. rework the governor.. and make a supercharger for it from a smogpump ( yes.. there are plans on the nternet for this ) and you can spend thousands of dolars to get an engine that is jst a few mre hp than stock?

As we say on the N board... 'How fast is your wallet?' If yuo want to trik it 'just because'.. and you got loads of cash buring a hole in yor pocket.. go for it... if you just need more tractor.. buy a 860 and if yuo close one eye.. it will look about the same as the N.. and have 2x the hp... and cost probably 200 - 1000$ more than the N.. and be a way better machine..

Your souped up N still has no live hyds.. though yo can adda an engine mounted pump /live hyds kit... probably 400$... no live pto.. though if you search you can find a very rear dearborn live pto kit.. probably 1000$.. might as well get power steering.. add 1200$

in the end you will have a machine that the weak link is now the divetrain.. and it will probably cost yo about 10 thousand dollars.. and .. not be as good as a 3500$ ford 860 with a common dealer option on it..

Do take pics. i wouldn't mind seeing the work.. especially if it wasn't my money! (wink)

There are plenty of re-powered N's.. one with a turbine engine... neat things to look at.. though no practical use..

Soundguy

 

[speedracing944]

Here is the link to MS

http://www.megasquirt.info/

Soundguy,
I understand the point you made of modifying till your wallet is empty. If this was the case I would run a Garret ball bearing turbo at about 1 bar and a standalone but hot rodding is not what I was looking for. I was more targeting increasing reliability and motor effieciency. For this those who use thier tractors often fuel economy is important. I don't use mine for much more than cutting the yard and pastures and for snow removal.

Cost for parts for a project like this would be about $600 which would include the standalone computer, ignition components, and fuel pump and pressure regulator. It would interface with a lap top computer and could be programmed on the fly if you so wish.

Best regards,
Speedy

 

[SPIKER]

Here is the link to MS

MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling & Grippo * * ©2005


Cost for parts for a project like this would be about $600 which would include the standalone computer, ignition components, and fuel pump and pressure regulator. It would interface with a lap top computer and could be programmed on the fly if you so wish.

Best regards,
Speedy

600 bucks sounds cheap to me, must have changed a lot since I looked at converting a 91 crown vic over form the dang cheap old variable venturi carb to fuelie setup, (was going junkyard injection of a mustang onto the 351 police inceptor engine, I sold the car for demo which the guy did day he picked it up as he backed it off trailer and right into the neighbors honda! left red paint on the side/rear bumper of the Crown Vic and tore the honda hole back end nearly off left bumper, tail lights and back spash pan setting on ground hanging by the other side tail light wires!


I snatched off the licence plate & fled the seine hahaha

mark

 

[Soundguy]

If your sole purpose of the tinkering is effiency.. then leaver everything stock, and add that smogpump-super charger. Biggest stumblink block that little flatty has is breathing. the carb is next in line.. the ignition is bottom of the bucket.. except ththat if you went FI.. then you would want programmable ignition.. ( I agree on that point ).

Have you thought about a TBI system retrofit from a junkyard?

Soundguy

Here is the link to MS

MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling & Grippo * * ©2005

Soundguy,
I understand the point you made of modifying till your wallet is empty. If this was the case I would run a Garret ball bearing turbo at about 1 bar and a standalone but hot rodding is not what I was looking for. I was more targeting increasing reliability and motor effieciency. For this those who use thier tractors often fuel economy is important. I don't use mine for much more than cutting the yard and pastures and for snow removal.

Cost for parts for a project like this would be about $600 which would include the standalone computer, ignition components, and fuel pump and pressure regulator. It would interface with a lap top computer and could be programmed on the fly if you so wish.

Best regards,
Speedy

 

[speedracing944]

If your sole purpose of the tinkering is effiency.. then leaver everything stock, and add that smogpump-super charger. Biggest stumblink block that little flatty has is breathing. the carb is next in line.. the ignition is bottom of the bucket.. except ththat if you went FI.. then you would want programmable ignition.. ( I agree on that point ).

Have you thought about a TBI system retrofit from a junkyard?

Soundguy

Never thought about retofitting TBI system. Is there a system you know of which would be easily compatable? I think any car systems out there would be way oversized for the little 27 HP that the 8N puts out.

Speedy

 

[Soundguy]

I think that could be fixed with in the injector computer.. if you could find someone wif a eprom reader to get int here and program some new tables for ya... Kinda like a 'superchips' setup.. only for an 8n.. (wink)

I think one of those single nozzle setups like I say on late 80's 4 bangers would be a starting point anyway.. Would still be quite a project though..

Hmm.. anoker thought would be a mechanical injection pump.. maybee something like the 144ci diesel that ford had for the hundred series.. and then go EI.. on top of that.. etc.

Course.. this would probably only be adaptable to a side mount distrib setup.. etc.. hmm...

soundguy

 

[dullpain]

Go for it - you'll have the coolest , most unique 8N on the planet.

 

[hill]

There are plenty of people who have converted the old Toyota Land Cruiser 'F' and '2F' engines to run fuel injected. They do it for easy starting and marginal fuel economy increases, but mostly they do it to better enable the engine to keep running when operated at extreme angles during rock crawling. The carburators can be tuned to do pretty well but will ultimately starve the float bowl at angle.

Most commonly used is the GM TBI system. It requires a junkyard raid for both the six cylinder HEI ignition and the fuel injection harnessing, fuelpump, and sensors. The two injectors are contained in the two barrel throttle body and an adapter needs to be made up to run the throttle body on either the one or more common two barrel manifold. (I'm not aware of a one barrel TBI, and would love to be informed of one if it exists).

Lot's of successful systems have been made up using the GM controller but the best for tunaility seem to always be the Megasquirt adaptations, That system can be made to fuel most any engine and all parameters are easily adjusted using a laptop and (I think) included software. The site posted tells all about it.

If you can solder electronics and have a cooperative (read low priced) part source I have read of the job being done for little over $200.

The megasquirt boxes were being sold in ebay for as little as $130. or so when I was last interested. Don't know the current situation or price.

All that said, I think if it were mine I'd be wanting to adapt one of the small diesels that are widely available. A huge heavy flywheel powered up by a small diesel could move a mountain!

 

[Offy]

My 9N purrs right along and I enjoy the simplicity of it and it's ol' school feel. I use my Mahindra for milage and getting the real work done. Ths 9N still does the bush hoggin' and box blade work though.

 

[jwmorris]

I could understand if you were replacing a Quadra jet on a hopped up 350. But, an 8n carburetor has minimal adjustments (and for that matter compression, cooling capability, etc) and it always works. On the last 8n we bought it took less time to adjust the carburetor than it took to load the fuel injection tuning software on my lap top for BDS's DFI, not to mention doing the actual tuning. I've been told, If an engineer designed the anvil it would have 47 moving parts and never work. To put it in other words your tractor is still running after 50+ years, you replace the cast iron carburetor with a bunch of electronics it certainly won't be running in 50 more. Finish the 944 and show us some pics of that project.

 

[Massey_lover]

Most commonly used is the GM TBI system. It requires a junkyard raid for both the six cylinder HEI ignition and the fuel injection harnessing, fuelpump, and sensors. The two injectors are contained in the two barrel throttle body and an adapter needs to be made up to run the throttle body on either the one or more common two barrel manifold. (I'm not aware of a one barrel TBI, and would love to be informed of one if it exists).

The old Suzuki Sidekick/Asuna Sunrunner/Geo Tracker/Chevy Tracker (All the same vehicle with different grilles and rims) used a single barrel, single injector setup.

 

[Soundguy]

(and for that matter compression, cooling capability, etc) .

n cooling systems are way oversized for that anemic hard breathing 119ci flathead.

soundguy

 

[WilliamTO-35]

My opinion is that you will not see much increase in fuel efficiency with the fuel injection setup. Henry Ford stuck with those flatheads , but in some tests they returned better fuel economy than the more modern OHV engines competitors used. Fuel injection alone provides very little improvement . Fuel injection, combined with digital mapping of injection timing, injection volume, spark advance, increased compression ratio, and more efficient exhaust manifolds would result in better efficiency and more power, right up to the point where the rods and crankshaft disintegrate. If you're not looking for more power, then I doubt you'll ever recover your investment in fuel savings. And, those old tractors already start in any weather almost instantly with their ancient carburetors, and no exhaust emission controls. Probably the best aftermarket piece of equipment offered was the dual range transmission adapter, which gave the Fords the low speed creeper gears that Henry Ford cheaped out on. There were conversion kits available to install Ford flathead V-8 engines, along with bigger or dual rear tires. Now, if you just want to hot rod your tractor and/or experiment with fuel injection, then that's another story. Go have some fun .
But keep the original parts around so some future owner can convert the tractor back to stock condition.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I am thinking of converting my new to me 1947 Ford 8N to fuel injection and Electronic Discharge Ignition System and do away with the old carb and points and condensors. It would maintain the govenor to regulate engine speed. The fuel injection would give it more reliable starts and allow the motor to run at a higher efficiency.

Has anybody done this?

Speedy

I don't want to rain on your parade, but what do you expect to gain on 6:1 compression ratio L head engine running at 2000 rpm? If you are doing it for the challenge, have a go.

But don't be expect big power or torque gains or large BSFC reduction. You can put an electronic ignition in if for ~$100 and a big coil (that won't buy you much) to improve starting and rid yourself of points and condensor. If you want reliable starts and good running, give the Old Marvel-Schebler TSX a good cleaning and a rebuild (~$60 for a gallon of carb cleaner and a rebuild kit+ your time) add the electronic ignition and you'll have reliable starting and near spec performance if your engine is in resonable mechanical shape.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

 

[Soundguy]

before I'd go to tbi or anything like that.. I'd turbo ro supercharge it.. flatheads biggest issue is breathing...

you can get miserly carbs.. but the breathing being nat aspiration is the issue, when looking at efficiency..

ps.. if you want to go to fi.. look at megasquirt...

soundguy

 

[Ford tractor]

So why was this zombie brought out ?

Thread is from 2007