practicing with my new mig Question ?
- Thread starter Jeff Lary
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The sentence should read, If you are NOT using 1/8 3/16 in stock to practice with. Each wire size has a current range in which it will weld that matches the stock thickness and current required, there is overlap of the ranges. Some boxes of wire will have a chart showing the stock thickness and wire size. This all limited by the power of your unit.
Just because the weld bead looks good dose not make it strong.
If you are getting full penetration, you will see that the back side of the coupon is starting to melt through for a butt weld. For thicker stock and other joints you will have to V- grove and/or use small gaps, 0.030 wires makes a good gauge. What you want to see is a weld bead that looks like a stack of dimes.
OP
Jeff Lary
Platinum Member
yep just checked it out the wire it is 12ga and not 14ga so i will get a 20 amp breaker.Been buisy today went to Ellsworth Maine about 75 miles away and bought a used Porter Cable pancake compressor and while i was there i also picked up a Johnsered 2040 Turbo saw think i will give that one to my son.
Johnbro
Gold Member
I just started learning MIG welding a few months ago when I sprang for a HF 151. Lots of spatter with their included FC wire. I added a gas bottle, some 75/25 and Lincoln wire and the spatter went to near zero. And that's with a rank amateur and a mediocre welder. So yeah, try it with gas.
One thing that gets overlooked buying welders is duty cycle, some welders may have as low as 20% duty cycle and that means it needs to sit idle 80% of the time its hard to do much work with one of them.
Shield Arc mentioned it describing one of his toys and it is a big consideration if you plan on building anything that takes a lot of welding.
That may be part of the problem too the welder may just be shutting itself down to cool off?
Shield Arc mentioned it describing one of his toys and it is a big consideration if you plan on building anything that takes a lot of welding.
That may be part of the problem too the welder may just be shutting itself down to cool off?
KWentling
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I've got a Lincoln SP125 Plus and I've only hit the duty cycle limit one time in about 10 years of infrequent use. I've probably put 4 or 5 rolls of wire through it. It seems the time you have repositioning yourself, cleaning, clamping and unclamping, etc gives it enough cooling time. It's been a non issue for me. I've got a 255 now so the little welder gets used only on the thin or outdoor stuff.
Kim
Shield Arc
Super Member
I don't think duty cycle is that much of an issue for the average guy. But I never dreamed there are machines on the market with as low as 20 % duty cycle tho!:confused2: Personally I would do just about anything to avoid a Mig machine that didn't have 100 % duty cycle. I also think they are harder to come by.
I've been on jobs where I ran 70 + pounds of wire a day for months & months. But that was with 400-amp, 100 % duty cycle engine drives.
I've been on jobs where I ran 70 + pounds of wire a day for months & months. But that was with 400-amp, 100 % duty cycle engine drives.
Yup I had one it was a Solar 90 amp that's how I know what a pain it is to try to actually build something with one.
I used mine on automotive sheet metal when I was building wrecks and finally bought a bigger one its 100% at 250 amps and I can still weld sheet metal and everything else.
I used mine on automotive sheet metal when I was building wrecks and finally bought a bigger one its 100% at 250 amps and I can still weld sheet metal and everything else.
Mark @ Everlast
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An important point to bring out:
Nearly every welder is a 100% duty cycle welder at some point. Duty cycles vary with amperage output. It is also a tool that has often been skewed by marketing, especially in MIGs.
A Mig's duty cycle rating, is almost always rated at an amperage LESS than the maximum output of the welder in order to improve the rating. People are buying what they think is a 200 amp unit and they are, but with a duty cycle rating of may 8-10% at maximum rating. The actual duty cycle may be rated for an amp level as much as 50 amps lower than the maximum output. The "effective" range of output, where welding is practical is really overlooked, and often it is hard to compare apples to apples across brands. The only way to get a true picture of performance is to look at the amps where the duty cycle is given, and try to compare other units in that range.
But companies count on the ignorance of a customer to promote their product. I am not picking on Miller here,but for example... I get a constant request for comparing their 211 model against our 200 model.
They advertise 210 amp output....That's quite good for a small box welder. Ours is only 200 max output...which is a LITTLE weaker. They also advertise 30% duty cycle...but it is only at 150 amps. Ours is 35% not much more, but it is at 160 amps. Our rating at 150 amps is actually 40%. Our 60% duty cycle rating is at 135 amps, and 100% duty cycle rating is right at 100 amps. Miller rates their 100 amp level at 60% and there 100% is around 50 amps or so.
What most people don't realize that the average weld is at a much lower than the 200 amps. In fact, if you were to put an amp meter on it, I would say the amp level would top out at about 130 -160 amps or so for most short circuit welds on average with .030 or .035. So having a high end is great advertisement, but having a respectable duty cycle in the main range of use is more important.
My point being, when you look at duty cycle compare closely the performance at different levels of out put, if you can and consider the type of welding you will be doing. Shield Arc has welded in heavy industrial applications, where it was not an option to take a break. But in reality most MIG welders never get above a 60% duty cycle, even at maximum amps. IF you think you need more duty cycle, then simply get a bigger welder...
Nearly every welder is a 100% duty cycle welder at some point. Duty cycles vary with amperage output. It is also a tool that has often been skewed by marketing, especially in MIGs.
A Mig's duty cycle rating, is almost always rated at an amperage LESS than the maximum output of the welder in order to improve the rating. People are buying what they think is a 200 amp unit and they are, but with a duty cycle rating of may 8-10% at maximum rating. The actual duty cycle may be rated for an amp level as much as 50 amps lower than the maximum output. The "effective" range of output, where welding is practical is really overlooked, and often it is hard to compare apples to apples across brands. The only way to get a true picture of performance is to look at the amps where the duty cycle is given, and try to compare other units in that range.
But companies count on the ignorance of a customer to promote their product. I am not picking on Miller here,but for example... I get a constant request for comparing their 211 model against our 200 model.
They advertise 210 amp output....That's quite good for a small box welder. Ours is only 200 max output...which is a LITTLE weaker. They also advertise 30% duty cycle...but it is only at 150 amps. Ours is 35% not much more, but it is at 160 amps. Our rating at 150 amps is actually 40%. Our 60% duty cycle rating is at 135 amps, and 100% duty cycle rating is right at 100 amps. Miller rates their 100 amp level at 60% and there 100% is around 50 amps or so.
What most people don't realize that the average weld is at a much lower than the 200 amps. In fact, if you were to put an amp meter on it, I would say the amp level would top out at about 130 -160 amps or so for most short circuit welds on average with .030 or .035. So having a high end is great advertisement, but having a respectable duty cycle in the main range of use is more important.
My point being, when you look at duty cycle compare closely the performance at different levels of out put, if you can and consider the type of welding you will be doing. Shield Arc has welded in heavy industrial applications, where it was not an option to take a break. But in reality most MIG welders never get above a 60% duty cycle, even at maximum amps. IF you think you need more duty cycle, then simply get a bigger welder...
Shield Arc
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Shield Arc
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kevinj
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I think these were W14-inch x 311-pound beams. Something like 2 1/4-inch thick flanges.
I'll bet you weld that out "quick a minute":laughing:
Seriously, how long to fit and weld out a joint like that???
Shield Arc
Super Member
A lot of variables to that question. If at all possible we would try and weld everything flat, (roll it).
It's been so long now I think that job was in 1987. I would guess 5 to 6-hours, if everything went right.
kevinj
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A lot of variables to that question. If at all possible we would try and weld everything flat, (roll it).
It's been so long now I think that job was in 1987. I would guess 5 to 6-hours, if everything went right.
Not as long as I thought it would take, we recently put in some 12" sch 40 steam main and that was about 3 hrs per joint, B31.1 of course.
Shield Arc
Super Member
What is B31.1?
Did you do that with SMAW or GMAW?
We normally ran 5/64" dia. wire, and sometimes we would have the large LN-7, 8, or 9 wire feeders which will all take 60-pound coils of wire. Then we would go with 3/32" dia. wire. Either 5/64" or 3/32" dia. wire will really lay down the iron with 400 to 500-amps pushing it!
kevinj
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What is B31.1?
Did you do that with SMAW or GMAW?
We normally ran 5/64" dia. wire, and sometimes we would have the large LN-7, 8, or 9 wire feeders which will all take 60-pound coils of wire. Then we would go with 3/32" dia. wire. Either 5/64" or 3/32" dia. wire will really lay down the iron with 400 to 500-amps pushing it!
B31.1 is an ASME pipe welding code. The procedure was for 1/8 6010 open root, 3/32 7018 fill & cap, all uphill.
And I am not a pipe welder but it was my project.
KWentling
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We normally ran 5/64" dia. wire, and sometimes we would have the large LN-7, 8, or 9 wire feeders which will all take 60-pound coils of wire. Then we would go with 3/32" dia. wire. Either 5/64" or 3/32" dia. wire will really lay down the iron with 400 to 500-amps pushing it!
That will separate the men from the boys. We run 1/16" Dual Shield for almost everything at the shop. We tried running a few spools of 5/64". Worked great doing build up in the rotators (have run 3/32" Dual Shield and 1/8" sub arc there too), but that is a challenge running by hand for someone like me (machinist who also welds once in a while). Our GOOD welders could get along OK with it, but it was a handful for me.
Kim
Shield Arc
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Thanks for the info Kevin, I'm not up on pipe codes, or pipe welding so to speak.
Kim it's really not that hard. When splicing these beams we would generally use start, and run off tabs. Short piece of angle iron on each side of the flange works great. and a piece of flatbar on the web. When the splice is complete just torch them off and grind flush. With these tabs you can run hot and fast!
KWentling
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Thanks for the info Kevin, I'm not up on pipe codes, or pipe welding so to speak.
Kim it's really not that hard. When splicing these beams we would generally use start, and run off tabs. Short piece of angle iron on each side of the flange works great. and a piece of flatbar on the web. When the splice is complete just torch them off and grind flush. With these tabs you can run hot and fast!
I have used run off tabs several times. Then air arc them off. I'm sure a little practice with it would have helped. I just went back to using the 1/16" I was comfortable with.
Kim
