Need educated on 3 pt backhoe attachments.

[scesnick]

I have a Kubota 5100 ( 50hp and about 46 at the PTO. ) I am looking at buying a backhoe attachment in the near future and I have a few questions.

I am pretty sure that I want one with a subframe So, I'm guessing you can get the subframe for your specific tractor and most backhoes will hook up to this subframe?. But, if the backhoe did NOT have a subframe, wouldn't the stabilizer bars take most of the weight and the digging pressure when using the backhoe? So, the only time there is alot of weight on the 3 pt. would be when moving the tractor wiht the hoe hanging off the back of the tractor?

Also, I don't have any rear remotes so obviously I would need a backhoe attachment with a self contained hydro system ( PTO pump) Is there any certain pump size that works better than others... etc...? Thanks

 

[Ductape]

The subframe and the hoe need to be made for each other. As an example, you wouldn't try to mount a Bradco backhoe to a Woods subframe.

When you think of your backhoe, think of the stabilizers as the fulcrum. When digging, your backhoe is pulling down (or back) and transferring all that stress on your top link bracket on the rear of your tractor. Use the search function here, you will find a few broken tractors here. Your tractor is substantial, yes ....... but I still say go with a sub framed backhoe.

Easiest and cheapest way to power your backhoe is by running a power beyond loop to the rear of your tractor. Not difficult for a 'do it yourselfer'. Lots of info on this site if you want to do a little reading and tackle it your self. You can run a PTO pump, but it'll add alot to the cost. The big benefit is keeping the hydraulic systems seperate, but if your tractor is the only one using the hoe and you keep moisture out of the backhoe....... makes sense to use your tractor's hydraulics to power it.

 

[bironacad]

Just purchased a new tractor and backhoe. I get the Tractor next week the backhoe is waiting on the adapter. The backhoe dealer is supplying a specific adapter for the tractor. This would be a deal breaker if they could not supply the means to attached the hoe. So I would suggest talking to the backhoe dealer. How big a hoe are we talking? Are you getting the bucket thumb? I will not be using mine commercially but a four point connection which includes the frame seems a good starting point to look at. Will you be using it for trenching, excavations, how big a bucket, what kind of soil conditions..... lots to think about, this forum was a great source for things to contemplate, hope this helps

 

[Willl]

Use the search function here, you will find a few broken tractors here.

(Here we go again)

Because they had a 3pt backhoe on them ?

(Edit; Sorry DT, we've been down this road. It just don't happen as often as some say. Show me an example.)

 

[galaxie428]

I did quite a bit of research on BH's when I was looking for one and ended up going with Woods. My tractor is only 30hp so it is smaller than yours but there is a lot of force being put on my tractor when digging. I personally would not trust anything but a subframe. I am sure if I had a spotter that I could attach mine in less than 10 min but by myself, there is a lot of getting on and off the tractor to line the frame and the BH up so it takes me at least twice that in time.

While I did not have a great experience with the salesman (others did), Roseel's farm and garden in MI had the best price and had amazingly cheap shipping. Wallace tractor in PA also gave me a good price but the shipping was a little higher. Those were both for Woods. I bought the BH80-x but with your tractor, you could get the BH90-x.

There are several threads on here about BH's.

At the time, Roseels had a listing on Ebay for both so you can get an idea of price from there.

Best of luck in your search!

 

[Craig Clayton]

I am not sure but there is a size of tractor were the danger of snapping them in half by a3 pth BH is not an issue. This applies only for the odd use at 75 HP for a medium BH I think is the point of safety. I heard at the 25-30 HP 3PTH BH can snap them easily.
Craig Clayton

 

[jake98]

What are the issues with a sub-frame? They don't interfere with 3 ph do they?
ps I know they don't on a BX, but I mean on a bigger tractor..

 

[galaxie428]

I can't speak for other tractors but on my Bobcat CT230, I have to take the top link off and anti sway arms off the lower arms. They have to be raised all the way and tied together as close as you can get them to make the BH fit. It is a little time consuming. Other tractors may be different.

The subframe stays on my tractor when the BH is not attached. The subframe alone does not interfere with anything on the 3pt hitch.

 

[Car Doc]

Well cant speak for a sub-frame mounted BH but mine has a pto pump and no sub-frame. It attaches to the lower arms and uses a top link it has outriggers for balance. Its pretty straight forward and simple. My tractor is 45hp and weighs about 3600# I think and the BH maybe weighs 800?

I cant say that I believe there is any danger of hurting the tractor having it on it isn't that much heavier than some of my other attachments. That is where the most load on the tractor is IMO when its just hanging off with no outriggers on the ground not when actually digging and everything is situated properly for balance etc. jmho

Mine takes me about 15 minutes to install mainly because I have 2 - 11/16" lock bolts and nuts to tighten on the pto pump collar and finding my crescent wrench in the tool box entails some digging and plus the pump is in an awkward place when the tractor is backed up the the hoe. Also I have a 4 speed pto so can idle the engine and get all the hydro I need so the size pump you need may depend on circumstances like that having more pto speeds?

 

[Ford tractor]

(Here we go again)

Because they had a 3pt backhoe on them ?

(Edit; Sorry DT, we've been down this road. It just don't happen as often as some say. Show me an example.)

Call up your color dealer of choice and ask if they warranty tractors with 3pt hoes. Most (if not all) no longer do. If it's not a problem, why?

 

[Willl]

I and many others, own tractors that came from the dealer WITH a 3pt backhoe on them. And I bet you can still buy them that way.

Guess what ?, mine is still in 1 piece.

 

[jake98]

Call up your color dealer of choice and ask if they warranty tractors with 3pt hoes. Most (if not all) no longer do. If it's not a problem, why?

It's possible that it may be a good way to sell you a more expensive one, I'm thinking..

 

[Willl]

I'm not saying it's the best way to go. I'd love to have a sub under mine.

All I'm saying is they're not cracking in half as some folks like to believe.

If they were, we would certainly be seeing it.

Wish we could get a count of the 3pt hoes here on TBN.

 

[nickel plate]

scesnick,
Your tractor has enough horsepower oomph to run the larger backhoes but another important consideration is the tractor's hydraulic GPM rating-again I'm sure that yours is well enough to run the larger backhoe attachments but do check the BH manufacturer's requirements. I don't remember if you said that you have a FEL-mandatory for a backhoe attachment.

 

[newbury]

The "crack" a tractor has been thoroughly disputed here and the one picture that always comes up was determined to have been done by something else.

I HAD the BH70-X w/ subframe on my little B7610. I took it off to use a box-blade.
When digging I usually put lot's of weight in the FEL or I drag the tractor all over the place.
It's not TERRIBLY hard to hook up, once you get it just right. I'm going to hook up some sort of hoist eventually. I had gotten the process down to about 3 backup's (put the tractor in gear and gently press the "go pedal" w/ my hand while standing on the ground) and a little cussin' in about 10 minutes.
Definitely get a hydraulic thumb.

Get the biggest you can afford and happy hoeing!

 

[Ductape]

Amazingly, here are a bunch of TBN members who have seen tractors broken by three point backhoes....................

Hate to burst everyone's bubble of a hope that it's an urban legend, but someone posted a picture on this board of just this sort of thing! I think it was John Miller III, but I could be wrong. I remember how sad of a picture it was, with her back broken like that. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Henro....find that pic, and show it to your wife... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I saw an L series Kubota with the top link mount broke out of the trans case. This was due to a 3 pt backhoe. The owner did not put know to put the reinforcing bracket onto the trans case. The bracket is "L" shaped and bolts to the top and rear of the case where the top link mounts.
After doing my own research, I have decided if I get anything over the smallest backhoe it will be subframe mounted. For safety and not getting that wiggly feeling from the "loose" 3pt connections.
Rich

I just got done reading the L3400 3 point backhoe broke the housing thread. I recently purchased a new L2800, when I picked it up, there was a L3400 sitting there with the same problem- broken casting. I told my dealer that I was putting a Woods 7500 3 point hoe on mine and I was concerned about that but he said it should be fine. I asked about the heavy duty top link bracket and he said they make one for the grand L but not mine. I am afraid to use it now. He is real difficult to get things fixed under warranty. Anyone have any advice? Subframe? Where would I get one at? I bought the hoe used (95 model) and I thought I was getting the proper tractor for it. Should I be concerned? Can you buy a subframe for it? Thanks guys!

I've seen the transmission housing crack. It might even void your warranty. MF states in their price books that 3pt backhoe voids warranty, sub frame required.

Two years ago, I considered buying a TC45D that had cracked the tranny housing because of a 3PH backhoe. Even though it had been repaired, I passed on it - just felt hinky.

So, yes, it DOES happen. Then again, it didnt happen to the previous owner's 1720...

Mark

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( We have all heard the horror stories although I personally have never seen any major damage done because of a 3-point mounted BH. I'm wondering if we should call the "Myth-Busters" to put this thing to rest. )</font>

I have personally seen probably 10 compacts of various colors that either totally split or cracked because of 3pt backhoe use. IT IS NOT A MYTH. And I don't think you can get away with ocassional light use, because when you come up against that one rock, root, etc, you will pull. As an engineer I don't think its so much a matter of fatigue, but rather, just the angle and forces applied. I do know that machines with 3 point backhoes do stretch their case bolts which become loose and this is almost a certain road to failure.

I run a Woods 1050 3pt on my TN75, but that is a very heavy duty Cat 2 setup with extra rigid bracing. All of my compacts over the years, have had subframes. My dealer would not sell me one without.

Andy

And here is a picture Robert in NY posted....... broken bellhousing from a three point backhoe. Unfortunately, there were other pictures lost in past site updates.

 

[Ductape]

They must all be liars............... :confused2::confused2::confused2::confused2:

 

[scesnick]

So ar eyou guys saying that ALL 3pt. hoes have to possiblity of breaking the tractor in half or that only 3pt hoes without a subframe have that possibility?

from what I gather from these posts a subframe is tracotr spcific which I pretty much guessed and that MOST ( not all) 3 pt backhoes are universal fit to these subframes. Is this correct?

 

[Willl]

Wow, every single one of those quotes said they ether heard of, someone told them or they read about it.

TBN has got to be the biggest tractor forum on the net. So where are all these tractors ?

If that pic from Robert is truly 3pt BH caused, it only be my second that I've seen and or known of. Far cry from what your making it out to be.

And again, don't take this out of context, a properly done 3pt BH will work, I've got one.

ANY tractor is going to break if you stick something way to big on it, BH or other.

 

[Ductape]

Wow, every single one of those quotes said they ether heard of, someone told them or they read about it.

TBN has got to be the biggest tractor forum on the net. So where are all these tractors ?

If that pic from Robert is truly 3pt BH caused, it only be my second that I've seen and or known of. Far cry from what your making it out to be.

Willl, you'd better go to EyeWorld and get some glasses...... then come back and read those posts again. Just because you have a three point backhoe and it hasn't broken your tractor in two doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And what do you mean 'IF' Robert in NY posted a pic of a bellhousing broken by a three point backhoe.............. are you calling him a liar? Use the search function Willl, its your friend.