New GM Trucks

[Builder]

No, I am really just curious if he had any issues??? I know so many guys with the DREADED 6L Ford and the biggest thing I have seen is a EGR valve. Just really wondering if he had issues or if its all internet lore.

Chris

:laughing: I think with sources confirming up to $1-billion in warranty claims is a little more than "lore" Chris. You gotta be the only guy left on the internet that still thinks this was a great diesel. :laughing:

From Pickuptrucks.com:

"Ford said it had spent $1 billion on repairs and recalls to fix problems with legacy 6.0-liter Power Stroke diesel engines. Ford further contended that its purchase contract with Navistar allowed it to debit Navistar's invoices to recover those costs, which it had done up to $160 million after filing suit. In response, Navistar temporarily stopped shipping Ford its new 6.4-liter Power Stroke diesel engines and filed a countersuit seeking several hundred millions of dollars because Ford intended to introduce a new diesel engine that was designed by International Truck and Engine Corporation before its joint-manufacturing agreement with Navistar expired in 2011."

From Wikipedia:

"The 7.3 L (444 CID) Power Stroke was replaced by the 6.0 L (365 CID) for the 2003 model year. This version was built until mid December 2006 (2007 model year). Many 6.0 L Power Stroke engines were proven to be unreliable,[1] and may have cost Ford hundreds of millions of dollars in warranty repairs and leading to a recall and repurchase of at least 500 trucks. There were initial quality challenges which Ford and Navistar have mostly rectified. The reliability of the later 6.0 L engines, after the dealership technicians were fully trained on the product, has been very good. Many early problems were disastrous, requiring total engine replacement. There were also minor problems resulting from the unreliable variable-vane turbocharger solenoid, EGR valve carbon deposit clogging or sticking, defective Exhaust Back Pressure (EBP) sensor/connector, numerous PCM (Powetrain Control Module) recalibrations, fuel injector harness chafing/crushing and other minor driveability and QC issues."

Not bashing, documented facts.

"LORE"???? I think not. :laughing:

 

[timswi]

Just to give an update, I filled the truck up this a.m. and id the math. I am getting 17.3 mpg. Not too bad, I expect it to improve a little over time as the truck breaks in.

That's about right overall for a 5.3...Maybe it will get a little better over time. On the highway you should be able to pull 20 at least.

 

[Egon]

It is the average Joe with 2 kids and a house note I want to help and support and this is one way I felt I could do that.

Thank you for the sage comments.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Builder]

That's about right overall for a 5.3...Maybe it will get a little better over time. On the highway you should be able to pull 20 at least.

I have been averaging ~14.5 on my 5.3L in my Tahoe. Over 40,000 miles on it, but it's all local stop/go driving. Rarely sees a highway.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have been averaging ~14.5 on my 5.3L in my Tahoe. Over 40,000 miles on it, but it's all local stop/go driving. Rarely sees a highway.

My Co-Pilot has a Yukon XL 4x4 that he averages 18mpg in. Its a 5.3L 4x4. All his driving is 15 miles each way to work and flat with virtually no stopping, only 3 stop signs and all is 55 mph roads. He took it on a trip to New York City last summer then back though Niagara Fall and he got 17mpg so you are right on the money.

Chris

 

[timswi]

My Co-Pilot has a Yukon XL 4x4 that he averages 18mpg in. Its a 5.3L 4x4. All his driving is 15 miles each way to work and flat with virtually no stopping, only 3 stop signs and all is 55 mph roads. He took it on a trip to New York City last summer then back though Niagara Fall and he got 17mpg so you are right on the money.

Chris

Hold on a minute...You sit next to a GM guy every day?..How do you guys keep the plane in the air when you're ringing each others necks?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Its tough. He is a ok guy though:thumbsup: Owns a GMC Yukon, a Ford F-150, and a Volkswagen. He only made one mistake in his life.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

He has actually had very good service out of it overall. Has 118,000 miles on it and only had a few issues. Had to have the rear end replaced which was weird because all he tows is a single axle Lawn Mower Trailer, 5x8. Maybe 1,500#. He also had to have the Rack or Steering box or whatever it has here recently. That was not cheap, they had to just about pull the engine. One of those $250 parts and 5 times that or so on labor. He also has had the steering shaft issue and the dash cluster issue but other than that its been good to him. Its a 2003 and looks like new. He takes really good care of his stuff.

He has said he will not buy another GM even though he has had pretty good luck out of it. He is not a fan of the Government Bail Out.

Chris

 

[timswi]

Its tough. He is a ok guy though:thumbsup: Owns a GMC Yukon, a Ford F-150, and a Volkswagen. He only made one mistake in his life.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

He has actually had very good service out of it overall. Has 118,000 miles on it and only had a few issues. Had to have the rear end replaced which was weird because all he tows is a single axle Lawn Mower Trailer, 5x8. Maybe 1,500#. He also had to have the Rack or Steering box or whatever it has here recently. That was not cheap, they had to just about pull the engine. One of those $250 parts and 5 times that or so on labor. He also has had the steering shaft issue and the dash cluster issue but other than that its been good to him. Its a 2003 and looks like new. He takes really good care of his stuff.

He has said he will not buy another GM even though he has had pretty good luck out of it. He is not a fan of the Government Bail Out.

Chris

Honestly Chris...I have never known one person that has known so many people with some much trouble with one brand (except Yugo buyers of the mid 80's). I've been driving GM's my whole life and never changed any of the parts that you mention..The occasional intake gasket, water pump and alternator...That's it. 200K on most of my last GM trucks..

Most of the ones with troubles around here start with an F or a D...Not critical, just sayin'

The bailout also saved a ton of union jobs and supplier support jobs that would have been completely wiped out had they been allowed to go under or fully bankrupt. It gave them time to recover, which so far is working out better than I ever thought it would. Did I agree with it? No...But it appears to be panning out so far.

When the steel mills around these parts were allowed to go under, everyone associated with them lost everything. When USAIR almost went under, their pilots pay was cut to absurd levels and their pensions cut to 25% of what they were promised because they were dumped on the Pension Gurantee. Would that have been better for GM and their remaining employees?...Just asking. Sometimes the populism thing can get somewhat blinding.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am not sure and do not think he knows either about the rear end. It failed in the first 6 months so chalk that up to bad part. I only know of 3 other rear ends which ever failed in my 30 years of owning trucks and knowing folks that have. The steering shaft issue is common on all GM trucks of that era. Its very common just as the Dash Cluster thing... My beloved Ford F-350 also had a bad dash cluster so that happens. All this was under warranty for him so no big deal.

His steering was wandering after his last trip out east to New York for a wedding. Its now out of warranty so he took it to have it aligned at a tire shop when they got home. They got it on the lift and called him to tell him it was a issue with rack or box or whatever it had and it was out of the capability of the shop to fix. He took it to a GMC dealer here and they replace it. He said it was 5 times in cost for the labor than the part. Thats all I know.

As for the Bail Out. I am telling you people in my neck of the woods feel differently about it. Indiana is a major player in the automotive industry. Many many suppliers here got the shaft and folks lost jobs. This killed the mom and pop stores, restaurants, ect. The housing market stinks. I do not want to see GM fail either, I just will not support them. If you do or others do that is fine. I just know many friends that lost jobs because of it. More lost jobs as suppliers then ever would have though the UAW. Its was a political favor saving GM for the support of the UAW in the last election.

Support for foreign vehicles is strong here. Within 75 miles of my home Toyota's, Mazda's, Honda's, Subaru's, ect are built. They supply good jobs with no UAW. In my county of just over 100,000 in the late 90's nearly 50,000 people were employed by GM. Today its about 50,000 with 0 employed by GM. Of that 30,000 were residents of one small town of about 70,000. Thats nearly every other person at one time worked for GM. Its just different here. Its a tough sell here. Sorry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/05/business/05anderson.html

Chris

 

[timswi]

I am not sure and do not think he knows either about the rear end. It failed in the first 6 months so chalk that up to bad part. I only know of 3 other rear ends which ever failed in my 30 years of owning trucks and knowing folks that have. The steering shaft issue is common on all GM trucks of that era. Its very common just as the Dash Cluster thing... My beloved Ford F-350 also had a bad dash cluster so that happens. All this was under warranty for him so no big deal.

His steering was wandering after his last trip out east to New York for a wedding. Its now out of warranty so he took it to have it aligned at a tire shop when they got home. They got it on the lift and called him to tell him it was a issue with rack or box or whatever it had and it was out of the capability of the shop to fix. He took it to a GMC dealer here and they replace it. He said it was 5 times in cost for the labor than the part. Thats all I know.

As for the Bail Out. I am telling you people in my neck of the woods feel differently about it. Indiana is a major player in the automotive industry. Many many suppliers here got the shaft and folks lost jobs. This killed the mom and pop stores, restaurants, ect. The housing market stinks. I do not want to see GM fail either, I just will not support them. If you do or others do that is fine. I just know many friends that lost jobs because of it. More lost jobs as suppliers then ever would have though the UAW. Its was a political favor saving GM for the support of the UAW in the last election.

Support for foreign vehicles is strong here. Within 75 miles of my home Toyota's, Mazda's, Honda's, Subaru's, ect are built. They supply good jobs with no UAW. In my town of just over 100,000 in the late 90's nearly 50,000 people were employed by GM. Today its about 50,000 with 0 employed by GM. Its a tough sell here. Sorry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/05/business/05anderson.html

Chris

There's no question that the bailout was a massive UAW payoff..Look what happened to the Chrysler bond holders..That was pitiful...I was trying to stay out of the politics of this. Still, are we better off with GM or without them? I say better with them.

I understand there are regional feelings on the matter...The folks in Lordstown Ohio feel much different than those in your neck of the woods. Not starting an argument, just stating my opinion.

When the mills went under in the early 80's I lost countless friends because their families had to leave the area to find other employment..Were talking tens of thousands of families.

USAIR was one of the main employers in this area prior to 2001. Everywhere you looked, there were USAIR plates on trucks, hats, tee-shirts etc..A very proud group of employees. Due to many things, from the management to the unions to 9/11 the company got crushed. Again..Thousands of families had to find other employment or leave the area. The pain was unbelievable.

So I fully understand what you're talking about...But punishing what remains won't really help everyone else. USAIR wasn't boycotted around here prior to them being bought out (forget who bought them, some airline out Arizona, I think). US Steel wasn't either...In fact, my BIL works for a scaled down version of that company and makes a very nice living there. The world ain't a pretty place anymore, so what do you do?

 

[Diamondpilot]

There's now question that the bailout was a massive UAW payoff..Look what happened to the Chrysler bond holders..That was pitiful...I was trying to stay out of the politics of this. Still, are we better off with GM or without them? I say better with them.

I understand there are regional feelings on the matter...The folks in Lordstown Ohio feel much different than those in your neck of the woods. Not starting an argument, just stating my opinion.

Like I said, I am glad GM is in business. It will make great cars and to me the quality and attitudes of the employees I have came across has improved 100% By them being in business it will drive themselves and the competition to make a better product.

I am sure attitudes are different all over. I just know what has happened to 40% or more of my neighbors. I went to work for a airplane charter company in the late 90's with 12 aircraft worth well over 20 million dollars. In one year they went from turning down trips to bankrupt due to GM. The owner lost everything he and his father took 60 years to build. I had left before it got bad but there alone 50 employees lost jobs from pilot, mechanics, accountants, dispatchers, fuelers, ect. It was liquidated in a auction last fall.

I know guys who worked for GM for nearly 30 years that will not ride in a GM at this point. They buy from the competition. Even the UAW hall is boarded up. The support is gone here. I am glad others keep jobs and those towns are doing well, it just did not happen here. The support is now for those who have brought in jobs. Thats another subject. The city now owns all the abandoned GM plants. They are all contaminated zones. They tried to give some of them to Honda to bring in a assembly facility for the Civic. Honda stated in our paper that they wanted nothing to do with Anderson and its GM way of thinking. Ouch. Unemployment rate 18% last time I saw it published. Things are not good and will not be for a long time.

At the end of the day some came out ok, some did not. My fathers company who made parts for GM, STANT INC. had to declare bankruptcy and all the employees took pay cuts of 20% to keep jobs. The company I work for got the shaft also but we are diversified enough that we were ok but immediately dropped all company vehicles that were GM or Chrysler and purchased Fords. When we rent cars we are to request Fords or foreign vehicles and can only accept GM and Dodge if its the only thing available. I have a Chrysler 300 on my current trip to Perryville, Mo. Things are just looked at differently.

Chris

 

[timswi]

Like I said, I am glad GM is in business. It will make great cars and to me the quality and attitudes of the employees I have came across has improved 100% By them being in business it will drive themselves and the competition to make a better product.

I am sure attitudes are different all over. I just know what has happened to 40% or more of my neighbors. I went to work for a airplane charter company in the late 90's with 12 aircraft worth well over 20 million dollars. In one year they went from turning down trips to bankrupt due to GM. The owner lost everything he and his father took 60 years to build. I had left before it got bad but there alone 50 employees lost jobs from pilot, mechanics, accountants, dispatchers, fuelers, ect. It was liquidated in a auction last fall.

I know guys who worked for GM for nearly 30 years that will not ride in a GM at this point. They buy from the competition. Even the UAW hall is boarded up. The support is gone here. I am glad others keep jobs and those towns are doing well, it just did not happen here. The support is now for those who have brought in jobs. Thats another subject. The city now owns all the abandoned GM plants. They are all contaminated zones. They tried to give some of them to Honda to bring in a assembly facility for the Civic. Honda stated in our paper that they wanted nothing to do with Anderson and its GM way of thinking. Ouch. Unemployment rate 18% last time I saw it published. Things are not good and will not be for a long time.

At the end of the day some came out ok, some did not. My fathers company who made parts for GM, STANT INC. had to declare bankruptcy and all the employees took pay cuts of 20% to keep jobs. The company I work for got the shaft also but we are diversified enough that we were ok but immediately dropped all company vehicles that were GM or Chrysler and purchased Fords. When we rent cars we are to request Fords or foreign vehicles and can only accept GM and Dodge if its the only thing available. I have a Chrysler 300 on my current trip to Perryville, Mo. Things are just looked at differently.

Chris

All of those things have happend around here to people I know for different reasons from different companies...I am not un-sympathetic....I'm in WPA..Everyone knows what happened here 25 years ago. We have recovered pretty well depending on the mentality of the area.

 

[Diamondpilot]

All of those things have happend around here to people I know for different reasons from different companies...I am not un-sympathetic....I'm in WPA..Everyone knows what happened here 25 years ago. We have recovered pretty well depending on the mentality of the area.

Maybe time will tell? Who knows how we will recover. Things have sure changed though. Kind of crazy when you see Long John Silvers, Taco Bell, Old Navy, ect go under.

I will lay off and lets get back to the topic.

Chris

 

[timswi]

Maybe time will tell? Who knows how we will recover. Things have sure changed though. Kind of crazy when you see Long John Silvers, Taco Bell, Old Navy, ect go under.

I will lay off and lets get back to the topic.

Chris

Peace:drink:

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Thanks. I'm the "average Joe" for GM. I've moved my family four times to stay with GM. It's not been an easy road. The Big Wigs in the large, round, glass building in Detroit with their million dollar bonus checks call all the shots. Thousands of our jobs have went to Mexico and Canada. I'm just a good ole boy trying to make a living. I know GM has the ability to make good quality products. I see that first hand every day. The positive is what I try to focus on. I'm thankful for my job and thankful for customers like yourself that help keep our jobs here in the U.S. where they belong. America was once a manufacturing giant. From the clothes on our back to the cars we drove. We made it here. In the 50's, over 60% of Americans had a GM product in their driveway. That's almost hard to believe in today's market.

Speaking as someone who has driven GM product almost exclusively since a 56 Pontiac - all my current vehicles are GM. Can't say I was too happy to find out DW's new Malibu was made in Mexico.

I hear what you're saying about jobs disappearing, however be aware that GM & Ontario / Canada have been linked with GM manufacturing and history since early 1900's. They used to make the Silverado in Oshawa and there are millions of GM vehicles on the road in Canada. GM manufacturing has taken a substantial hit here in ON as well with many of those jobs also moving to Mexico and some to the US. Welland, ON took a 900 job hit when they closed the JD plant and moved those jobs to the US.

Obviously, I have some bias, however, I think it is reasonable to expect there will be continued sharing of GM manufacturing jobs between the US & Canada.

I'm glad to see GM seems to be making a comeback.

 

[Builder]

I will lay off and lets get back to the topic.

Could we finally get past the same stories of copilots, neighbors, brother in laws, etc. anti GM stories and finally put to rest?

I don't know, just a thought, but maybe we could move on to something new rather than the same anti-GM stories regurgitated over & over for the hundredth or maybe even thousandth time?

Gettin kinda old......

 

[Egon]

Not so long ago a fellow who works in the oil fields of Western Canada where the P/u is the main transportation, haul and tow mode for daily work told me;
The Fords come in with limping transmissions. The Dodges and Chevy/GM come in with front end trouble and Dodges are the most popular by far for the choice of truck.

Many of these trucks will be left running all day, rarely see paved roads and may consistently be overloaded whether hauling or towing.:thumbsup:

Second hand hearsay and can't verify any of it!

 

[deerefan]

My 2005 Z71 had the 2 common problems of the steering bump and faulty gauges. I only kept the truck a year and was actually torn on trading it in. Also, I will say gas prices at the time were killing me and we already had 1 truck, so we decided to get a more effecient commuter vehicle (Civic). What tore it for me was I was washing the truck and the windshield started to leak the day we were going to look at civics. I told my wife if they give me what I want, its gone. We did not have a GM product from 2006 until now which was hard for me due to the fact that was all I drove and is all my family owns. It does feel kinda good to be back in 2 GMs , giving them a shot. My wife loves her Traverse, it rides very smooth, no road noise and she said it accelerates rather nicely for a bigger vehicle. The same can be said for the Silverado. I understand we will have issues at some point with the new vehicles, but the 100k mile warranty (big ticket items) provides some comfort. The Civic we had was mechanically sound, but a lot of little items failed. The radio lights went out, both visors broke, the trunk latch broke, the power window switch in the drivers door and the door unlock switch in the passenger door broke. We had the car almost 4 years and traded it with 108k miles.

 

[not2old]

Not so long ago a fellow who works in the oil fields of Western Canada where the P/u is the main transportation, haul and tow mode for daily work told me;
The Fords come in with limping transmissions. The Dodges and Chevy/GM come in with front end trouble and Dodges are the most popular by far for the choice of truck.

Many of these trucks will be left running all day, rarely see paved roads and may consistently be overloaded whether hauling or towing.:thumbsup:

Second hand hearsay and can't verify any of it!

My daughter is an executive secretary in the oil fields and has connections to get me a late model pick-up cheap. ALL of her male friends that are knowlegable about trucks tell me DON'T BUY ONE OF THOSE.

 

[Egon]

DON'T BUY ONE OF THOSE.

Yes, they have usually been well used. I would not buy one.