Third function problems

[caddison]

I installed a dual selector valve on my Case DX33 to operate my snow plow and 4-in-1 bucket. I split the circuit at the curl circuit and installed the valve. I have normal function of the curl funtion on the loader when the solenoid is not energized as it should be. I install hoses on the secondary circuit side to run the cylinders on the plow and the bucket. When I energize the solenoid and use the curl function the hydraulics seem to bind and the engine bogs down. It seems like there is no return. Any ideas what the issue might be?

 

[caddison]

I installed a dual selector valve on my Case DX33 to operate my snow plow and 4-in-1 bucket. I split the circuit at the curl circuit and installed the valve. I have normal function of the curl funtion on the loader when the solenoid is not energized as it should be. I install hoses on the secondary circuit side to run the cylinders on the plow and the bucket. When I energize the solenoid and use the curl function the hydraulics seem to bind and the engine bogs down. It seems like there is no return. Any ideas what the issue might be?

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...eded-hydraulically-grapple-6.html#post2161795

Pictures are here...

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Please provide complete specs/data on the electric solenoid valve....the problem is most likely in the valve configuration

 

[SpudHauler]

I used a similar setup on my RTV900 to control the up/down and left/right for my Curtis plow using the existing hydraulic control valve that is hooked to the dump box. So, I unhook the dump box and hook up the QC for the plow. The two lines run to the 12 volt selector valve and from it two go to the up/down cylinder and the other pair go to the left/right cylinder. Each pair are on one side of the solenoid. In other words the top say has the up/down cylinder, the left side has the two inputs from my control valve and the right side has the pair going to the left/right cylinders. When not energized the up/down operates as this is the one most often used. When energized the left/right cylinders swing the plow.
Your box will be slightly different in which side hooks to what, but each side should do a particular function, ie power in, up/down or left right. Make sure nothing is crossed functioned is my only guess.

Found a picture. Front two, plow side is inputs, back two are my left/right and top two the up/down. Like I said yours maybe different but each side are a set.

 

[kennyd]

First, lets get some terminology straight here, you installed a "diverter", not a third function solenoid valve.

You problem is "regen" or the regenerative function of you loader valve. Here is a great post that explains it: 3 position valve-vs-4 position valve - TractorByNet.com

You can also search the term "regen" for hours of reading. This problem turns up on snowplows with 2 SA (single acting) cylinders and chute rotators on snowblowers.

The short answer is you need to push your joystick further to the right to get past the regen, or not push it so far to the right depending on the valve. (or also called "fast dump") detent.

This is all assuming you plumbed the diverter correctly

 

[J_J]

caddison,

Are you using SA cyl or DA cylinders?

Did you connect your cyl like this?

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7738.pdf

 

[caddison]

caddison,

Are you using SA cyl or DA cylinders?

Did you connect your cyl like this?

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Instruct/I9-7738.pdf

JJ,

The plow has two SA cylinders and my bucket has one DA cylinder. I can not get either one to work.

 

[kennyd]

JJ,

The plow has two SA cylinders and my bucket has one DA cylinder. I can not get either one to work.

Which diverter valve did you use??

 

[caddison]

KennyD,

When I installed the diverter I split the lines running to the curl function and then installed the diverter. I think I may need to flip the diverter over. According to the diagram the supply side needs to be P1 and P2 ports and I have them in the C1 and C4 ports and the lines to my curl function coming from the P1 and P2 ports. I didn't figure this would make a difference but maybe it does?

 

[Ductape]

First, lets get some terminology straight here, you installed a "diverter", not a third function solenoid valve.

You problem is "regen" or the regenerative function of you loader valve. Here is a great post that explains it: 3 position valve-vs-4 position valve - TractorByNet.com

You can also search the term "regen" for hours of reading. This problem turns up on snowplows with 2 SA (single acting) cylinders and chute rotators on snowblowers.

The short answer is you need to push your joystick further to the right to get past the regen, or not push it so far to the right depending on the valve. (or also called "fast dump") detent.

This is all assuming you plumbed the diverter correctly

I'll second this motion.

 

[kennyd]

KennyD,

When I installed the diverter I split the lines running to the curl function and then installed the diverter. I think I may need to flip the diverter over. According to the diagram the supply side needs to be P1 and P2 ports and I have them in the C1 and C4 ports and the lines to my curl function coming from the P1 and P2 ports. I didn't figure this would make a difference but maybe it does?

Yes, you have it plumbed wrong for sure.
-P1 and P2 are the inputs, they should go to the QD's that face the FEL valve
-C1 and C4 must be to the loader bucket so it will work as normal without power to the valve.
-C2 and C3 will connect to you plow or grapple, they are active only when the valve is powered.

You will still probably have the regen problem I mentioned above trying to control your plow.

 

[kennyd]

I'll second this motion.

He does have it plumbed wrong...but the regen will still be a problem:thumbsup:

 

[caddison]

So what is the solution to the regen issue and can I make this work?

 

[kennyd]

So what is the solution to the regen issue and can I make this work?

This is what I wrote in post #5:

The short answer is you need to push your joystick further to the right to get past the regen, or not push it so far to the right depending on the valve. (or also called "fast dump") detent.

You can also see if your manual say's anything about it.

 

[J_J]

It appears you hooked them wrong. The supply for the solenoid valve comes from the curl circuit, and goes to the P1 and P2 If those are SA cyl, you only need to connect the A port to the cyl, and plug the B port, or run a hose from the B port to a return line. The SA cyl need some force to retract, and that is why some use DA cyl for that purpose.

Do you know if you have regen?

 

[caddison]

Well I feel like a maroon!! I flipped the valve over and ran the lines and guess what....It works like a charm. Now all I have to do is figure out how to wire in my relay and mount my switch and I am good to go.

One other issue... It's been so long since the cylinder were actually used they are leaking some fluid out of the weep holes in the bottom of the cylinders.

Thanks for the help guys and I have learned my lesson the hard way, as usual! I'll pay a little more attention to the diagram next time.

One question. I am thinking I would like to mount the valve down on the cross bar on the loader. Would it be possible to remove the hoses from the end of the curl line that go to the left cylinder and run them to the valve and then continue from the valve to the left cylinder in the normal mode and then run lines from the valve to the plow?

 

[caddison]

Well switch is wired and everything is up and running. I'll need to address the cylinders it looks like but other than that it is working. Thanks for the assistance.

 

[sodamo]

Well switch is wired and everything is up and running. I'll need to address the cylinders it looks like but other than that it is working. Thanks for the assistance.

What did you use for relay and switch ? Thanks

 

[kennyd]

One question. I am thinking I would like to mount the valve down on the cross bar on the loader. Would it be possible to remove the hoses from the end of the curl line that go to the left cylinder and run them to the valve and then continue from the valve to the left cylinder in the normal mode and then run lines from the valve to the plow?

Working late tonight?:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Yes, you can mount the diverter anywhere, but I think it's to vulnerable up there on the cross tube-just to many hoses. Plus if you get a grapple in the future (since you already have the hydraulics complete) there will be sticks and branches in that area. My vote is on the upright frame or "mast" as they call it, it's much more protected there.

As far as the cylinders, the inside of the bore is probably rusted and pitted so the seals got torn a little.

 

[caddison]

What did you use for relay and switch ? Thanks

I actually did not use the relay and just wired in a standard toggle switch next to my ignition switch. Powered it from the accessory side so there is only power when the key is on. Flip the switch on and I can angle my plow or use the 4-in-one and flip it off and back to standard curl function. Not as nice as having it mounted to the joy stick but it will do for now.