valve type question

[Tompet]

Hi,
I have a Kubota B2920 TLB I want to run a 3pt stump grinder like this picture I found. Since I have a factory backhoe (Kubota BH65) I thought I could use the hydraulic supply lines that feed it into a proper valve as shown in photo. The dealer said I need to install kit with ports and valves mounted on to tractor, awkwardly IMO, when I put backhoe back on. The amount of quantity of items they listed, I felt, was just too much. I said why can't you mount controls on the attachment...was told they have to do it by the book anything else and I'm on my own.

Anyway, I think this idea should work. With using the hydraulic lines that feed the BH when I remove it why couldn't I use that flow source? If that possible?
I'm not sure about type of valve (dual double action) on this set-up open center, open center with power beyond and PRV (which is my guess?) or closed center.

Any info/feedback appreciated

 

[kennyd]

Yes, you can certainly add a valve to the grinder and use the PB (power beyond) lines to feed it just like your backhoe does.

You will need a OC (open center) valve, two spools for DA cylinders. You can use the stack valve like you pictured or one like the 9-7862 which is cheaper.

 

[Tompet]

Yes, you can certainly add a valve to the grinder and use the PB (power beyond) lines to feed it just like your backhoe does.

You will need a OC (open center) valve, two spools for DA cylinders. You can use the stack valve like you pictured or one like the 9-7862 which is cheaper.

Kenny,
So the lines that feed my BH (plumbed into area under seat) are considered power beyond lines so I do not need that in the valve I would purchase? Also, does it matter if the valve capacity is rated larger than my tractor rated flow (at around 8gpm)?
Other question DA or SA is acronym for...?
Thanks for feedback.
tp

 

[kennyd]

Kenny,
So the lines that feed my BH (plumbed into area under seat) are considered power beyond lines so I do not need that in the valve I would purchase? Also, does it matter if the valve capacity is rated larger than my tractor rated flow (at around 8gpm)?
Other question DA or SA is acronym for...?
Thanks for feedback.
tp

Yes, the line that feed the hoe are PB lines-you have to couple them together when you remove the hoe correct? They have the full flow of the pump in them whenever the tractor is running. When you hook it up this way-it becomes the last valve in the series so it (the new valve) does not need to have a PB port on it-just like your hoe valve does not have one.

You want a valve that is rated for equal or greater GPM capacity of your system-NEVER smaller.

DA= Dual Acting, a cylinder with two hoses.
SA= Single Acting, a cylinder with one hose.

 

[Tompet]

Question leads to another question, the valve should have pressure release option...correct?

Thanks for the clear explanations.
tp

 

[kennyd]

Question leads to another question, the valve should have pressure release option...correct?

Thanks for the clear explanations.
tp

Yes-correct. Most valves have PRV's (pressure relief valves) in them, the one I linked is adjustable from 2000 to 3500 PSI.

 

[Tompet]

kennyd,
Thanks for all the clarification.
On this pto machine there is a hose option which I was not planning on purchasing but the description of the hose/connector acronyms were something unfamiliar including term "restricted"...which concerned me it may be something proprietary to these cylinders. I think M and F after the following refer to male/female...not sure on rest.

Adapter, 9/16 JICM x 9/16 ORBM
Adapter, 9/16 JICM x 9/16 ORBM restricted
Hose, 80" x 9/16 JICF x 9/16 JICF
Hose, 94" x 9/16 JICF x 3/4 JICF 90

Am I wrong in assuming that I could get proper adapters (or hydraulic lines with one end to match each end of pto machine cylinder) and use hydraulic lines and fittings to match the Kubota (told they are 1/2" with standard US fittings) or do the hoses for the 3pt machine need to be as listed above? (cylinder(s) size below.
tp

 

[kennyd]

kennyd,
Thanks for all the clarification.
On this pto machine there is a hose option which I was not planning on purchasing but the description of the hose/connector acronyms were something unfamiliar including term "restricted"...which concerned me it may be something proprietary to these cylinders. I think M and F after the following refer to male/female...not sure on rest.

Adapter, 9/16 JICM x 9/16 ORBM
Adapter, 9/16 JICM x 9/16 ORBM restricted
Hose, 80" x 9/16 JICF x 9/16 JICF
Hose, 94" x 9/16 JICF x 3/4 JICF 90

You are correct, the M and F means Male/Female. The Restricted means it has a very small hole in it, they are used to slow down a function like a small cylinder that moves to fast-they are NEVER use on the input or output side of a valve-only the "work" ports.

Am I wrong in assuming that I could get proper adapters (or hydraulic lines with one end to match each end of pto machine cylinder) and use hydraulic lines and fittings to match the Kubota (told they are 1/2" with standard US fittings) or do the hoses for the 3pt machine need to be as listed above? (cylinder(s) size below.
tp

I don't fully understand the question. You can get hoses made with just about any type/style fitting crimped on the ends, or just get adapters to go from say a ORB (O-ring Boss) fitting on the valve to a NPT or JIC that is crimped on the hose.

Did that answer your question?

 

[Tompet]

Hi Kennyd
Thanks again.
Your are right, I was not clear. What I should have said was since their is a restriction fitting in the one line I think it may be better to purchase their optional hose kit since they may not specify type of restriction or it may be proprietary to their design... what are your thoughts?

Also, when you said, "...Restricted...very small hole...they are used to slow down a function like a small cylinder that moves too fast-they are NEVER use on the input or output side of a valve-only the "work" ports."
Does this mean that the restriction fitting if used on supply line on feed side of hydraulic cylinder of the attachment?

Also, I was looking at one other brand of grinder, I liked construction and set-up but was concerned about size and weight on my tractor. Anyway, on their optional valve they had an adjustable feed fitting (was told works well with smaller tractors) on their valve set-up (as shown) is this something that supplants the restricted fitting idea and could that be added to valve you originally recommended above?

Thanks,
tp

 

[kennyd]

Hi Kennyd
Thanks again.
Your are right, I was not clear. What I should have said was since their is a restriction fitting in the one line I think it may be better to purchase their optional hose kit since they may not specify type of restriction or it may be proprietary to their design... what are your thoughts?

Don't waste your money. See comments below...

Also, when you said, "...Restricted...very small hole...they are used to slow down a function like a small cylinder that moves too fast-they are NEVER use on the input or output side of a valve-only the "work" ports."
Does this mean that the restriction fitting if used on supply line on feed side of hydraulic cylinder of the attachment?

You use them on cylinders, not valves. So it would go between the valve and the cylinder and NOT the between the pump and the valve.

Also, I was looking at one other brand of grinder, I liked construction and set-up but was concerned about size and weight on my tractor. Anyway, on their optional valve they had an adjustable feed fitting (was told works well with smaller tractors) on their valve set-up (as shown) is this something that supplants the restricted fitting idea and could that be added to valve you originally recommended above?

All that is-is a adjustable flow restrictor rather than a fixed one like we already discussed. They are readily available from the Surplus Center and it would be a great idea to use one so you can fine tune the speed to your liking.

 

[Tompet]

Kennyd,
Thanks so much for all the feedback...you sure helped so I can understand the basic concept with what I was trying to do!

I'm just guessing, but I assume out of the list of needle valves on page I would use the 3/8" NPT for 0-8 GPM? Also, this would stub out from valve (work port rather than in out port?) with cylinder hose attached to it?

tp

 

[kennyd]

Kennyd,
Thanks so much for all the feedback...you sure helped so I can understand the basic concept with what I was trying to do!

I'm just guessing, but I assume out of the list of needle valves on page I would use the 3/8" NPT for 0-8 GPM? Also, this would stub out from valve (work port rather than in out port?) with cylinder hose attached to it?

tp

You are welcome:thumbsup:

Well, you can use 1/4" hose from the valve to the cylinders since they are not continually flowing...and the smaller hose will also help slow things down a bit, plus it's cheaper and easier to route.

Yes, the needle valve would go on the work port.

But you definetly want 3/8" on the IN and OUT ports since that is continually flowing.

 

[Tompet]

Kennyd,

In one of my earlier posts on this thread, I wrote that someone told me my tractor (Kubota B2920) used 1/2" standard U.S. thread hydraulic lines...now I'm not too sure. I'll have to check. Since you said 3/8" on IN/OUT lines that is what I thought the size was on my BH power beyond lines were. Anyway, whatever size they are is the size I was planning to run to IN OUT ports of attachment valve.

With respect to 1/4" hose option you stated for the attachment cylinders, I could use either 1/4" or 3/8" (with proper thread adapter since it goes from 0-8 GPM) needle valve. But it would not hurt to go all 3/8" hose on work cylinders if I choose?

Also they only show one hose with restriction on specs and I'm sure it would be with swing cylinder since that is what controls actual cutting...make sense to you?

Thanks Kennydddddddddddd!
tp

 

[kennyd]

Kennyd,

In one of my earlier posts on this thread, I wrote that someone told me my tractor (Kubota B2920) used 1/2" standard U.S. thread hydraulic lines...now I'm not too sure. I'll have to check. Since you said 3/8" on IN/OUT lines that is what I thought the size was on my BH power beyond lines were. Anyway, whatever size they are is the size I was planning to run to IN OUT ports of attachment valve.

With respect to 1/4" hose option you stated for the attachment cylinders, I could use either 1/4" or 3/8" (with proper thread adapter since it goes from 0-8 GPM) needle valve. But it would not hurt to go all 3/8" hose on work cylinders if I choose?

Also they only show one hose with restriction on specs and I'm sure it would be with swing cylinder since that is what controls actual cutting...make sense to you?

Thanks Kennydddddddddddd!
tp

I saw the "standard U.S. thread" post...but I have no idea what that means! There is NPT, ORB, JIC, BSPP...never seen a U.S. thread! I assume he meant NPT but...you should use whatever size is there now to feed the new valve. It should have some info written on it. It may be 3/8 or 1/2.

3/8 is fine to the cylinders-but it is overkill, I was just letting you know you options and save you some $$$

I agree the restrictor is probably on the swing cylinder.

 

[Tompet]

Kennyd,
I appreciate you suggesting more efficient/economical way to go. I found a schematic and a couple of photos of a unit with factory hoses...the 9/16" listed earlier in this thread definitely look like overkill (as well as valve body) and I did not know if the cylinder size came into play, but if each hose (schematic showed) has a restrictor that does seem to suggest hoses, as you said, did not have to be that large?

From the schematic and photo it looks like the factory valve is a joystick. So with the valve you suggested from surplus supply I would add a needle valve to each hose feeding each cylinder?
I'm just concerned that Wood's may have done something proprietary on set-up...but I'm feeling pretty confident from all of your info. From schematics/photo anything look out of ordinary to you?

I also found at Messick's parts I can order the factory arm and attachment plate as shown in the photo for valve body etc. without all the other components.

Sorry to pester with all of these details, I just want to plan as much as possible beforehand. Besides, I have the time to plan...this past Monday emergency treated for a spontaneous retinal tear in my right eye and won't be doing much for a week or two!
Thanks,
tp

 

[kennyd]

I can assure you there is nothing propietary about the hydraulics on that machine. Just a valve, hoses and cylinders.

You only need a restrictor on one side of the cylinder, not both because either way the fluid is forced through the small opening in it causing it to move slower.

If you want to use a joystick valve, then the 9-7401 is a good choice, but more money. I guess it will come down to how much you are going to use this thing if it's worth the convienience of the joystick vs. two levers.

Sorry to hear about the eye's-that's serious business! Take care of them!

 

[Tompet]

Kennyd,
Info all noted.
No, I don't need a joystick valve on this.

When I looked at schematic again I realized that each of two cylinders had a restricted hose fitting which led to my question about the needle valve(s). What I meant was not a restrictor on both sides of a cylinder but rather a restrictor to each of two cylinders as follows:
to restrict the flow to each working cylinder with a two lever valve do I need a needle valve on line to each cylinder or does the "open center" of two lever valve mean you only need one? Likewise if using a joystick valve with open center would there be any difference of needle valve set-up?

Thanks,
tp

 

[kennyd]

Kennyd,
Info all noted.
No, I don't need a joystick valve on this.

When I looked at schematic again I realized that each of two cylinders had a restricted hose fitting which led to my question about the needle valve(s). What I meant was not a restrictor on both sides of a cylinder but rather a restrictor to each of two cylinders as follows:
to restrict the flow to each working cylinder with a two lever valve do I need a needle valve on line to each cylinder or does the "open center" of two lever valve mean you only need one? Likewise if using a joystick valve with open center would there be any difference of needle valve set-up?

Thanks,
tp

Alright...You are sure getting your money's worth outa me:laughing:

You would need one restrictor/needle valve per cylinder ( or "circuit"), doesn't matter if the valve is lever operated or joystick operated

Being Open Center has no bearing on this, that only has to do with the IN and OUT ports and the type of pump you have-you NEED Open Center BTW.

OK, hit me with another question

 

[Tompet]

Kennyd,
I don't know if I can continue with these high consultation fees!
I would hit you with another question...but I ran out...for today!

Really, thanks a lot for going along on all of this! Your help was super!

I'm going to order the thing Friday or Monday so it can get here by the time I'm ready to go. When I start working on it I may have another question...or at least I'll post a picture of the Kennyd Grinder!
tp

 

[kennyd]

Good luck Tom, keep us updated