Backhoe Backhoe - What is normal slack?

[steve0413]

I have a DK45 HST Cab w/2485 BH. I've assumed this is normal, but want to ask just to make sure. Two things. First, when I dig (down pressure on the dipper), the backhoe moves enough on the sub frame to where my seat back rubs against the tractor cab. Second, stabilizers lose down pressure with each dig and I have to re-set them about every other bucket load. Anything abnormal about this and if so, suggestions.

Edit: I don't use the top-link on the backhoe as I was told that Kioti recommended that it not be used.

 

[Dmace]

My little CK20 with the KB2365 backhoe was moving quite a bit like that until my dealer picked it up for the 50 hour service and while going over it they found the bolts that attach a strap from the backhoe to the subframe loose. I don't use any top link for the backhoe either.

The tech that dropped it off showed them to me and said they were loose and to watch them and check them periodically. It was pushing my seat up against the window wiper motor and slow moving sign but it didn't move nearly as much afterwards.

The stabilizers losing down pressure does not sound normal. I only reset my stabilizers when they have dug in too deep to the ground. Mine's a lot smaller too though.

In this picture, I have highlighted the strap that I am talking about. Make sure the bolts at both ends are tight.

Click thumbnail for larger image.

 

[steve0413]

Thanks DMACE. That's exactly the place where they it is "flexing". I've looked at those bolts but don't have a socket big enough to tighten them. I'll go get one first thing.

 

[Dmace]

Thanks DMACE. That's exactly the place where they it is "flexing". I've looked at those bolts but don't have a socket big enough to tighten them. I'll go get one first thing.

:thumbsup:
The first thing I did after getting my tractor was going out and getting a good set of 1" to 2-5/16" sockets and a larger ratchet set. Even this little tractor has large bolts. I can imagine a monster like that DK45!
You might as well go through and check all the bolts on the backhoe, I don't know the torque specs but I bet you could jump on the end of the ratchet and still not get the full torque on it. :laughing:

 

[steve0413]

If the torque is too much for me, I'll just put my wife on it. :laughing:

 

[o2batsea]

Sounds like the spring that returns the spool to center is not doing it's thing. Is it possible to get it to the dealer?

 

[the fox 1940]

Thanks DMACE. That's exactly the place where they it is "flexing". I've looked at those bolts but don't have a socket big enough to tighten them. I'll go get one first thing.

Just thought I would add my 2 cents worth since we are on the subject.
I had the same problem with bolts backing off.. I tightened them up and then I took the Welder and I welded all those braces, anywhere there was bolts going onto the main frame rails.Mine was jumping around all the time. You can still take the Hoe off the tractor as nothing is welded where it would interfer with taking it off.
Does not move now I'll tell you. Why they would put bolts in there I have no idea.
The Fox.

 

[mx5guy]

Smaller package to ship, as unit breaks down.

 

[dfkrug]

Edit: I don't use the top-link on the backhoe as I was told that Kioti recommended that it not be used.

How timely this thread is, Steve. Have you seen my recent thread:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/171526-how-ruin-very-nice-tractor.html

What I want to know most is:
> who at Kioti recommended not to use the toplink and why?
> what does the owner's manual say about the toplink connection provided
on the 2485?

This is a very important issue as the frame without toplink flexes a LOT,
resulting in loose bolts and broken welds if you try that.

 

[steve0413]

MichiganIron posted about a year ago that Kioti issued a directive to not use the top link with the backhoe because it puts too much stress on the rear axle housing. The owners manual DOES show the top link in place though.

 

[DK35vince]

My Rhino backhoe uses the same type subframe.
I do not use the top link.
I never could keep the straps to my subframe tight so I welded them several years ago. No problem since.

 

[steve0413]

I see welding in my future. The amount of movement/flex/slack where the backhoe attaches to the sub-frame is just not acceptable as is....at least for me. I can see where the top link would help, but don't want to chance damaging the rear axle housing. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[dfkrug]

MichiganIron posted about a year ago that Kioti issued a directive to not use the top link with the backhoe because it puts too much stress on the rear axle housing. The owners manual DOES show the top link in place though.

I find it interesting that Kioti has issued a directive, but not to the owners of
these tractors and hoes. Furthermore, any damage concern should be
directed at the toplink anchorage on the the 3-pt cylinder housing, not the
axle housings. Finally, this kind of undermount subframe has been sold
for many years by the likes of Woods and Bradco, and they always require
the toplink to keep it from flexing excessively.

 

[dfkrug]

My Rhino backhoe uses the same type subframe.
I do not use the top link.
I never could keep the straps to my subframe tight so I welded them several years ago.

Why not, Vince? Doesn't Rhino tell you to use the toplink in the owner's
manual?

 

[DK35vince]

Why not, Vince? Doesn't Rhino tell you to use the toplink in the owner's
manual?

My manual does not mention anything about installing the top link.
I tryed to attach a page from my owners manual on mounting backhoe to tractor, but it does not seem to be working very well. (computers are not one my strong points).
It basicly just says to back over subframe, get rear subframe cross tube into rear mounting bracket on tractor, get front subframe crosstube into front tractor mounting bracket, install pins.
Doesn't say anything about installing a top link.

 

[Dmace]

The manual for my backhoe does not mention anything about installing the top link.

 

[dfkrug]

The manual for my backhoe does not mention anything about installing the top link.

Does the 2365 have a 3/4" hole under the seat for this purpose?

Same question to Vince for the Rhino....is there a hole under the seat?
If you guys both bought the subframes and installed them yourselves, it
seems no special toplink came with it, correct?

 

[DK35vince]

My Rhino does have a hole for a top link under the seat.
It also has holes for lower lift arm pins.
The backhoe is made so it can be used as a 3 point hoe or attached to a subframe.
I ordered a subframe kit for a DK 35 as an extra.
No special top link is included with the kit.

 

[Dmace]

Does the 2365 have a 3/4" hole under the seat for this purpose?

I have not noticed any holes big enough to mount a top link. Also, my backhoe was installed from the dealer not by myself.

 

[Gil Case]

The Kioti CK20 HST does have a spot for the top link under the backhoe seat, just about on the floor. At least my 2008 does. Putting a top link there would mean it would be level to the ground.
I have also heard (from dealers) that three point hitch backhoes should not be used since it puts too much pressure on the top link which is welded onto the gear housing, but if you look at the under carriage support for the backhoe, it is bolted onto the same housing as the top link, just a little lower down. Admittedly the pull of the under carriage mount is straight down and the pull of the top link is straight back, this could lead to earlier failure of the top link welds.
I used a three point backhoe for 10 years on my old 24 hp Chinese Benye and never had any problems, but it sure would bounce around.