Fighting Corrosion with Zinc Blocks

[Tractor Parts]

I bought one of these 'Electronic Rust Protection' systems once as I was considering retailing them. (Although it wasn't the particular brand mentioned above). I set up a simple test, with two pieces of thin sheet metal side by side mounted on a plastic board. Each piece of metal was about 6" x 6". I sanded each piece with grit paper to remove any surface film. One piece was then wired to the system, the other was not. Occasionally I sprayed a bit of salt water on both to accelerate the rusting. After about 2 months the surface rusting was identical on both pieces and 'the system' appeared to have provided no benefits whatsover even on such a small piece of metal. My conclusion was that it was useless.

Regarding using zinc anode blocks, I think its possible that they would be beneficial even on a truck, although they would only work when the truck was damp.. and its my experience (living in salty air) that cars and tracks are damp very often.

What kind of metal was used in this "test?" Different kinds of metals will have different regions of corrosion. The sheet metal of cars are carbon steel with approx 3-5% carbon. The electronic system will work for this kind of carbon steel. Any other type of sheet metal may not produce the same results.

 

[Tractor Parts]

They do have plug in electric systems that put a charge on the whole body. You have to plug it in for it to work. Won't work when your driving but if you can plug it in when parked it would help. Not sure how effective they are but the physics says it would work.

It works when you are driving. The complete electrical system on the car uses the body of the car as the return or ground. Thus, as long as the ignition is on, or the engine is turned on, there is electricity flowing through the body of the car. As per this factor, the electronic rust protection is set to not operate while there is already a flow of electricty through the body of the vehicle.

Its this reason that a vehicle suddenly rusts after a few months of no-use and a dead battery. if the vehicle was in use, then the rate of rust would be minimal as compared to the rate of rusting when not in use.

 

[Tractor Parts]

In Canada it may be illegal to sell these devices???

http://www.bushman.cc/pdf/corrosion_theory.pdf

A site giving some explanations for corrosion.

Good article on corrosion. Illegal in Canada? No way man. I'm not aware that that is banned anywhere.

 

[alchemysa]

What kind of metal was used in this "test?" Different kinds of metals will have different regions of corrosion. The sheet metal of cars are carbon steel with approx 3-5% carbon. The electronic system will work for this kind of carbon steel. Any other type of sheet metal may not produce the same results.

As I recall it was just ordinary thin flat 'zincalume' plate. The stuff we would commonly call 'tin'. I sanded the surface vigorously to remove any protective coating and encourage rusting - and it sure did. I also ensured there was a complete electrical circuit where required. The instructions didn't make any special comments about what type of metal it protected. It failed spectacularly enough for me to conclude it was a scam.

 

[Tractor Parts]

Ok. I see where the mix up is. Tin is bascially a thin layer of zinc covered by a protective aluminium coating. If the protective aluminium is scraped off, the zinc is going to rust away rapidly. The metallic properties of zinc are far different from a 3-5% carbon steel that are used on the bodies of trucks, cars and many vehicles, with a few exceptions, like the landrover, which uses an alloy of aluminium. An electonic rust protection system designed for carbon steel will not work with zinc. Its like putting diesel into a gas engine and wondering why the engine is not starting.

 

[alchemysa]

Ok. I see where the mix up is. Tin is bascially a thin layer of zinc covered by a protective aluminium coating. If the protective aluminium is scraped off, the zinc is going to rust away rapidly. The metallic properties of zinc are far different from a 3-5% carbon steel that are used on the bodies of trucks, cars and many vehicles, with a few exceptions, like the landrover, which uses an alloy of aluminium. An electonic rust protection system designed for carbon steel will not work with zinc. Its like putting diesel into a gas engine and wondering why the engine is not starting.

And maybe it was a full moon too.
Sorry but I still think its a scam. If it couldn't protect a little 6" square piece of tin its not going to protect a truck. Its an electronic system. 'Tin' carries electricity.

If those systems really worked the car manufacturers would use them. They are not expensive and would be much cheaper than the anti-rust measures they currently employ.

 

[Scotty370]

Let me 'chime' in for just a minute! As was mentioned, there are three components at work here. An Anode, a Cathode, and an electrolite. On our older Gas Piplines, IE coated steel, we use magnesium anodes that are buried adjacent to the pipe line. The process is, that when stray current enters the line through breaks in the coating, it travels through the steel line until it reaches a tapped and sealed wire, that leads this current to a block of magnesium. It's when the electrons disipate into the wet soil, (electrolite), that it removes material (Rust/Corrosion) from the parent metal. In this case, the magnesium is sacrificial and as the current disipates., It removes miniscule particles of the anode (Magnesium) rather than the wall of the steel pipe. So, that said, Your car would be protected if you buried it, or submerged it, to provide the needed electrolite. We had guys over the years steal anodes, put them in the trunk of their cars, wire them to the frame, and, and thought their cars would last forever! Not true! No Electolite!! ~Scotty

 

[rwinter]

I'm a big believer in Rust Bullet. POR 15 was not as good

 

[Tractor Parts]

I understand the chemistry stated above. Its one method of corrosion inhibitor used where there is a need for an electrolyte. However, as the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat. While that is one way to prevent corrosion, I'm explaining another way to do the same thing with vehicles where there no electrolytes, and there is no need to bury your car. This is the physics below.

1.What is rust? Rust is the normal electrochemical process of metals slowly returning to their natural, unrefined state. It occurs when iron and oxygen combine. Moisture and salt increase the rate of the chemical reaction.
2.Why does rust happen? Very simply stated, iron and oxygen have opposite charges so they seek each other out to combine. When they combine, the iron loses electrons to oxygen atoms. This is called oxidation and when it happens it produces a chemical reaction that causes rust.

So What Does this sytem do?
Basically, the ERPS system interferes with the electrical charge between iron and oxygen so it becomes hard for them to combine to form rust. ERPS uses a proprietary electronic 田apacitive coupler system to continuously replace lost electrons from the iron in vehicles and metal structures to prevent or reduce the rusting process.

The process goes like this:
1.An Electron Generator transfers an output voltage to the electro-couplers.
2.The electro-couplers become charged and act as the positive plate of a capacitor. An electron rich, negative charge is created on the vehicle痴 metal surface making it act as the negative plate. The paint acts as a dielectric, holding the charge static. (NB Paint is needed)
3.Rust is caused by the loss of electrons from iron when iron and oxygen combine, but because the capacitor works to constantly replace lost electrons on the vehicle痴 body, rust is prevented.

Text taken from erps.com.au

 

[Egon]

1.What is rust? Rust is the normal electrochemical process of metals slowly returning to their natural, unrefined state. It occurs when iron and oxygen combine. Moisture and salt increase the rate of the chemical reaction.
2.Why does rust happen? Very simply stated, iron and oxygen have opposite charges so they seek each other out to combine. When they combine, the iron loses electrons to oxygen atoms. This is called oxidation and when it happens it produces a chemical reaction that causes rust.

So What Does this sytem do?
Basically, the ERPS system interferes with the electrical charge between iron and oxygen so it becomes hard for them to combine to form rust. ERPS uses a proprietary electronic 田apacitive coupler system to continuously replace lost electrons from the iron in vehicles and metal structures to prevent or reduce the rusting process.

The process goes like this:
1.An Electron Generator transfers an output voltage to the electro-couplers.
2.The electro-couplers become charged and act as the positive plate of a capacitor. An electron rich, negative charge is created on the vehicle痴 metal surface making it act as the negative plate. The paint acts as a dielectric, holding the charge static. (NB Paint is needed)
3.Rust is caused by the loss of electrons from iron when iron and oxygen combine, but because the capacitor works to constantly replace lost electrons on the vehicle痴 body, rust is prevented.

Text taken from erps.com.au

So, what does the vehicles electrical system do in it's normal state. Seems the vehicle metal is used as a return line line be it positive or negative ground??

Please. a little more elucidation!:confused2:

 

[Mace Canute]

It's snake oil, pure and simple.

 

[Tractor Parts]

Hi Egon,

Good question. The answer to this is that during the time that the engine is started, or the ignition in on, this system is not needed. As you rightly mentioned, the vehicle body is used as the return to the battery, thereby completing the electrical circuit.

This is the reason why older vehicles when in constant use, rusts little. However, as soon as the vehicle is parked and the battery runs dead, the rate of rust increases, and the deterioration of the body can be visibly noticed after a few months.

The electronic rust inhibitor system should be plugged in after the ignition or the engine is turned off. In some cases, this can be done automatically. The wiring needed can be cumbersome as the ignition circuit will need to be configured to act as a switch for the device.

regards
Marlon

 

[Egon]

Does this mean I can just leave the key in the on position and turn on some lights and add a battery charger and I've got the same system??

 

[user.69169]

Fellows I should probably begin by saying I'm completely electricly inept. Shoot one time Birdie my first wife had me change a broken lightbulb in the hanging light over the dining room table, and well, next thing I knew the ambulance was haulin me out of the living room with a busted wrist. Birdie said I should have known enough to turn the light off first, but truth to tell back then I didn't.

Now I've read through this thread best as a simple man such as myself can, and I'm wondering. Since one of you fellows is a professional Engineer might be you can help me. I have a rusty Farmall sitting in the leanin shed next to the housetrailer, and well can I use electric to get the rust to fall off so I can go get some paint and paint that tractor. My idea is I could put some tires on the tractor or run it up on rubber mats or something, and hook a fence charger to the tractor. Would that work? It sure would be convenient, and I have a fence charger sitting under the couch.

I'll appreciate yer help since I am electricly disabled and all such. Thanks in advance.
(removed)

 

[alchemysa]

Hi Egon,

This is the reason why older vehicles when in constant use, rusts little. However, as soon as the vehicle is parked and the battery runs dead, the rate of rust increases, and the deterioration of the body can be visibly noticed after a few months regards
Marlon

Hogwash

 

[SpringHollow]

Their explanation of the sciene (the .au site) is laughable. They should go back to their high school chemistry book. Iron in the metallic state (ie, steel versus rust) and oxygen reacting is not due to charges in the strict sense - they are both uncharged.

Ken

 

[Egon]

That fence charger idea sounds good. A fellow could hook up all his equipment and keep it from rusting. would you hook up in series or parallel?

 

[DarrylH20]

That fence charger idea sounds good. A fellow could hook up all his equipment and keep it from rusting. would you hook up in series or parallel?

Keep them from being ripped off too maybe

 

[SpringHollow]

Fence charger will not work. There are immersion methods using batteries and sacrificial metal (often rerod). My guess is that they are even posted on this site somewhere. Not practical for a whole tractor.

Ken