Conduit in a pole barn - corners?

[lhfarm]

I've deceided to use plastic conduit for wiring the rest of my pole barn. I'm trying to figure out how to neatly get around the 4x4 in the corners. I'm running the conduit up from the panel and along the top of the wall and on top of the posts There is just room for 1" conduit up there. I'm going to use a "T" every few feet to drop down an outlet. But how do I take the conduit around the 4x4 in the corner. Putting a 90 in moves the conduit out several inches from the wall. I'm sure there is a part/piece are something I need to do. Suggests? Thanks.

 

[JB4310]

Heat up a section and custom bend it.

You say the 90 will bring it out to far, you mean the sweep 90? They do have what's called LB (line bend, I think) 90's that are short and have a screw on cover to help with pulling wire. Might take 3 of them with short stubs between them.

Maybe a couple of sweep 90's cut short as possible and a LB between them?

Another way would be a 45 on each side wall and go across the corner at 45*, that would not be as tight but might not be bad.

JB

 

[bake321]

Get Mom's hair dryer and do the 45s.

Cary

 

[SARG]

I'm going to use a "T" every few feet to drop down an outlet.

I imagine you'll end up using a box at each drop versus a "T".

 

[lhfarm]

I imagine you'll end up using a box at each drop versus a "T".

I'm still trying to figure out the "best" way to do this. My original idea was to run the conduit along the top, then use a "T" (with a screw cover) drop down along the wall to a box at each post. That may be overkill. I may just use the conduit at the top to get the wire to the other 3 sides and drop down at one point and just run along the wall from box to box.

I've got lots of breakers (the panel came with a bunch of 20 amp breakers) so I can run lots of branches. I'm also in no hurry and am just working on this when it is too muddy to be outside. I would like to end up with a neat looking installlation and good protection for the wiring.

I'd appreciate any advice or suggestions.

 

[JB4310]

If you want it neat then do what you said originally, either the box or the tee with cover, and drop down to each outlet box as opposed going across the wall.

That will use a little more wire maybe, especially if your using 1 GFI to protect other outlets, but will look neater.

To save space in the pipe you know you can share 1 neutral/white with 2 hots to have 2 separate circuits as long as they are on opposing legs or phases, or what ever it's called in the breaker box.

Electrical Wiring in the Home: Shared Neutrals, hot legs, neutral wire

One idea, since your gonna have more than 1 outlet circuit is make ever other box on opposite legs, so on one wall you might have a box every 6- 8 ft but the box on each side would be on a different circuit, so if you had to plug a couple things in on one wall they wouldn't be all on the same circuit. I did that in my shop but along the work bench walls I put 2 duplex outlets in each box and had them on separate circuits. all 20 Amp for me and I'd recommend the same for you.

JB.

 

[radioman]

I second the 45 degree connections. you can always take out a tiny notch in corner of 4x4 for the conduit when doing a 45 to tuck it in further and neater so you can put things in the corner and not touch the pipe.
I also like the idea of running a main line in ceiling and drop down to where you need the power. Not a overkill at all. looks neater to me that way and it would be easier to fix/upgrade in future that way.

 

[Ford850]

I think you need to visit your local box store and look through the available conduit fittings. You have several options. The type T fittings you are describing could work for the drops, or you can use boxes that will give you more room for connections and will probably be less expensive. For the bumped out 4x4, you can use 3 Access Pull Elbows, a Flex Elbow, or a length of Flexible conduit to get you around the corner. I'd bet the access pull elbows will be the best fit.

 

[eepete]

I'm a little late to the game on this thread, but I just got some pertinent work done. So here are four pix of how I did some conduit work. I've left these as BIG images so they can be zoomed in on.

The almost done tractor garage is 65 feet from the house. It is 30' x 40', with a 10x10 door and a 12x8.5 door and a people door. I have a 100 amp sub panel in it that is fed before the transfer switch for the whole house generator. I also ran a 15 amp circuit for the lights that is on the generator side, and a 20 amp circuit so that I have one outlet when the power is out. That outlet also powers the outlets for the garage doors.
Currently I have three 20 amp circuits on the panel for a total of 4 20 amp 120V outlets in the garage.
There is also conduit for an air compressor that runs to a small adjacent structure (so I don't have to listen to it). So eventually there will be air, water, phone, security, and video surveillance. I've got lots of pix and will make a small web site when this is all done.

But for now, here are 4 big pix that show some conduit being run in a pole barn. The main idea is to keep all horizontal runs at about 12' in the air and drop down vertically to switches and outlets. After insulation is done, I can put up 4x8 plywood to the 10' level to protect all wiring and insulation (both from physical damage and UV exposure). 1st two pix looked OK on my machine, not sure why they are rotated here.

You can also see where I ran some runs behind the poles, and the last picture shows a transition from inside to outside of the poles.

Hope this helps and gives some people ideas.

Pete

 

[eepete]

Lets see if those 1st two pix are oriented correctly now...
OK, guess the site didn't like the 1.2 mbyte size, and when it squished them it lost the rotate. I cut the size back and it kept the rotate OK If I'm missing something on being able to edit, delte, or modify thumbnails attached to post let me know.

 

[moeh1]

GFIs don't like a shared neutral, but are code for outbuilding use up here in NY.

 

[mattcage]

eepete,

thats some fancy work there. If I ever get to build a barn, I will steal your ideas!

 

[tommu56]

eepete

Is there any reason you didn't bend the conduit?
It saves a lot of couplings and hang ups when pulling.
Ive got a pipe viper to Keep them round and it works verry good.

tom

 

[eepete]

tommu56: No particular reason I used couplings. It was a 90 degree world, and I kept the bells pointing in one direction. Also, this was 3/4" conduit with either 1 or 2 #12 circuits or 1 or 2 #14, so there was lots of room.
There are a few places, like coming out of the big 2' box where I used two 45's to get up off the wall, and then a 90 where I could have done a bend.
I was also a one man band, so using the pre-bent pieces allowed me to stack, plug, and try my way through to approaches. Sometimes it's easier to try a few things then to think and get it right the 1st time.

Bringing the conduit in from the ground, I did bend some 45's and 90's to get a custom fit. this was on some 1.5" pipe and 3/4 pipe. I did an outside flood light this afternoon, and I really should have done a custom bend. But, by the time I realized it I was 80% of the way done. Tomorrow I do the other light, and will probably custom bend it.

I did try to custom bend a 2 1/2" piece once, and it did not go well. I suspect if I did more of this type of work, I'd bend more (and have more tools to do it). And of course only when you finish a job do you really understand how to do it

Pete

 

[Gem99ultra]

Your pictures came through great! Zoom works fine on all of them. And yes - that's some VERY nice work you've done there. Congrats!

 

[lhfarm]

Pete,
Thanks for the great pictures and ideas. I'm still not started, so this isn't late for me!

 

[eepete]

I was so focused on the conduit I forgot to mention something about the wiring. Where you see the wire nuts in the 2' square box, the wires are tightly twisted together, then soldered, and then the wire nuts make a colorful decorative insulating cover. I've never been a big fan of them when currents could get high or when in outdoor environments. I did use them when I wired the lights up, but remember that each bulb (compact florescent 23W, 1300 lumen, equivalent to 90 watt incandescent) draws about 200 mA, so where I had three of them it's still .6 amps. Even a wire nut can handle .6 amps

YMMV

Pete

 

[powerpace]

Nice job and neat. Why conduit? It's way expensive and way overbuilt. Especially if your going to cover the bottom part with plywood. My 48X48 barn/shop/bunkhouse has no conduit except where the power comes in and out of the panel and ground and where it goes through the sheet metal siding. Mine is wired above code requirements.

 

[eepete]

Why conduit? Paranoia. I know I'll never have a problem with the wiring. I seen a few outbuildings burn down, and electrical issues are high on the list of why.
I've also kept all wiring, including the outside lights, so that they are not attached to the metal skin of the building. There is a ground rod that attaches to the skin on the outside. Of course, there is the ground rod (a different one) required by code for the AC, along with the separate ground that ties back into the house and it's ground system (a #2 ring around the house). The rebar for the floor is also bonded to ground. Now all bets are off when dealing with lighting, but, if the building is struck there's a good bet that it will stay on the outside of the building and the majority of the energy will find it's way the outside ground point. There's a good chance it won't use the wiring of the building as ground (and therefore not "invite" the bolt into the house). I've done a hypot test on the conduit, it's good to at least 10KV (highest I can measure with my equipment). I do have surge suppressors at the outbuilding and inside the house. Hopefully they can handle whatever remaining energy gets into the wiring (if it does).

powerpace, I agree you can do a great job without conduit. Did the wiring on my house, it's all romex no conduit except for the same cases you cite. I can only claim safety paranoia as my excuse. So yeah it's way overbuilt. As for way expensive, the 3/4" stick is cheap at a buck for 10 feet, it's the fittings that are bad - about $1.50 to turn a corner, $5 for the LBs or box that holds a switch or outlet. But I'm still at less than $220 for the conduit part of the wiring that could have been done with Romex. This does not count the 2.5" run you see coming out of the box- that's for another future project. It is more of a time cost, which is both free and the most expensive part of the job since I did it myself. I put the total cost of the electrical at about $1500 and most of that cost is driven by the desire to have a 100 amp sub panel in the building. The #2 wire, 100 amp panel, 2'x2' boxes (both in the garage and in the house), the 100 amp breaker was $50, and conduit in the house to the panel. There was also an additional $110 or so when originally building the house to put a 3" conduit into the area where I thought I would want a tractor garage some day. Not part of the electrical, but I also have a 3" drain PVC for low voltage and water. Without that, this project would have been a nightmare. Note to anyone building a house: Put some conduit stubs out 20-30 feet from some outside walls and measure carefully where they end .

You're 48x48 barn/shop/bunkhouse sounds wonderful . I know bigger is better, I just had to size and price this garage for my needs.

Pete

 

[SpringHollow]

Conduit is nice because it helps prevent rodents from chewing on your wires and protects them from damage from sharp things often swung in a barn.

As an aside, i was lucky - was doing some electrical work so i had the cover off off an electrical box in the basement. Came back a few days later, tested my work and the GFCI breaker blew. Checked my wiring at the fixture and it seemed fine. Back traced to the open box and there is a dead mouse stuffed in between the outlet and the adjacent switch. I wrap the sides of outlets and switches with electrical tape but you can still touch something live if you try. The mouse tried while part of him was touching the grounds. I love GFCI breakers, finding them much more reliable than the outlets. I keep looking for GFCI/Arc Fault Breakers.

Ken