Appliance Frustration

[N80]

This is mostly just a rant but it comes with a question attached. We are going to be selling our house soon. When we bought it, there was a trash compactor in the kitchen. It broke within weeks of moving in and it has just sat there useless for the last 12 years.

We figured we better replace it before putting the house on the market. Well, much to ur surprise, these pretty unpopular appliances (when was the last time you saw one in a new house?) are EXPENSIVE. Most of them in the $600 dollar range!!!

Anyway, we just happened to find a used GE Profile compactor for about $200. It looked pretty new but the decorative front panel was missing. No big deal, we'd just order a new on and that would be quite a good deal. Guess what, the decorative front panels cost $100 at most places. We did a lot of internet searching and finally found this piece of black sheet metal for about $60. It arrived, we put it on, looks great. Except, there is no handle. Guess what the handle costs? About $90 for an 18" plastic handle and two srews!!! We searched again, found one for $55. Its on the way.

So, we still get a compactor for under $400. Not that bad.

Here is the kicker. From GE parts catalog, the decorative front panel (black painted sheet metal) and the handle sell for around $200. But I got to poking around looking at drawings and parts and the whole drawer, can assembly, with about 20-25 parts including the bucket, latches, frame, rollar bearings etc, sells for only $180.

Bottom line is, GE is ripping people off for trim pieces in a big way.

The question: Is this typical for all appliance makers? Or is it just GE? (I'm interested because I'm considering buying a used 48" GE Monogram duel fuel range from the same place. It is in great shape and about 1/2 price compared to new. Comes with a 1 year warranty. But, if this practice of jacking the prices on trim is just a GE thing, then I'm not going to buy anything else from GE.

 

[Bird]

George, I know things are constantly changing with all companies. In 1968, I bought an old used GE refrigerator cheap. A year or two later, I wanted new door gaskets, called their Dallas parts warehouse with the model and serial numbers, was told it was a 1946 model, but they had the door gaskets in stock and quite reasonably priced. I was quite favorably impressed.

Then in the '70s and '80s we had GE built washers and dryers and I was not impressed with having to replace thermostats, heating elements. control switches, etc.

Then in 1997, we bought a new mobile home that came with a GE dishwasher that lasted exactly 3 years before the pump sprung a leak. I had repaired leaking pumps before on Gaffers & Sattler dishwashers, but I couldn't figure out how to separate the pump from the motor on that 1997 GE dishwasher and when I called them I found they do not sell the pump and motor separately. They're only sold as a unit, and in May, 2000, they wanted $160.34 plus tax for it. We replaced that dishwasher with a new one of another brand and I haven't bought a GE product since.

 

[Tig]

The way I see it, there is so much competition for the sale of new products that margins are low. Manufacturers rely on volume to make things a go. When it comes to parts, they need profits so assemblies are the order of the day rather than individual components. Keep in mind that the larger the assembly the less training the repair guy needs to install it. It's also easier to sell a new unit for a bit more. It's all about profits.
When I sold my house I needed a $220 rack for my dishwasher. It made more sense to replace the washer for $250.
Although it bothers me that WE have created a market for disposable goods, I understand why and how it came to be.
When I can, I spend $200 of my life to avoid buying parts so I can repair something "for free". Although it sure sounds foolish when you consider how cheap things are to replace. I guess I enjoy the challenge of the repair more than I do the trip to the dump.

 

[Bird]

WE have created a market for disposable goods

Yep, and I don't understand it. Of course, it's not just appliances, but I still wonder about things like replacing returnable, reusable glass bottles for so many things, like milk, sodas, beer, etc. with plastic, paper, and aluminum, so much of which goes into the landfills. And the huge amounts of paper and plastic "packaging" for everything.

 

[Tig]

I guess that as a society we are cheap and of limited attention span. No one wants to pay for quality that lasts a lifetime when the alternative is to go get new stuff cheap.

 

[300UGUY]

Yep, and I don't understand it. Of course, it's not just appliances, but I still wonder about things like replacing returnable, reusable glass bottles for so many things, like milk, sodas, beer, etc. with plastic, paper, and aluminum, so much of which goes into the landfills. And the huge amounts of paper and plastic "packaging" for everything.

This may not be a popular thing to say, but I think that the single best law ever passed in the state of Michigan was our bottle deposit law. ( 1972? ) Before the law, the roadsides were covered in trash. After it passed, nice and clean. I wish they would extend it to all beverage containers, and do something about other packaging also.

 

[Bird]

This may not be a popular thing to say, but I think that the single best law ever passed in the state of Michigan was our bottle deposit law. ( 1972? ) Before the law, the roadsides were covered in trash. After it passed, nice and clean. I wish they would extend it to all beverage containers, and do something about other packaging also.

Oops, we don't want to get into politics, which is prohibited on TBN, but I agree.

I guess that as a society we are cheap and of limited attention span. No one wants to pay for quality that lasts a lifetime when the alternative is to go get new stuff cheap.

Yes, but it seems that the raw material to make even the cheaper stuff would either run out or get too expensive.

 

[dooleysm]

I guess that as a society we are cheap and of limited attention span. No one wants to pay for quality that lasts a lifetime when the alternative is to go get new stuff cheap.

I was talking about this with my wife recently...can you even buy stuff that will last a lifetime anymore? I don't think any major manufacturer is out there selling high quality stuff, appliances anyway.

 

[Bird]

And cheap appliances aren't necessarily cheap anymore. I used to think paying for extended warranties (just another insurance policy) was not a good financial decision, but with the luck we've had in recent years, I'll probably pay for the extended warranty on any new appliances.

 

[tallyho8]

And if you think plastic parts for your appliances are expensive, try pricing a plastic grill or tail light for your car from your dealer.

 

[LBrown59]

UGH

This is mostly just a rant but it sat there useless for the last 12 years.We figured we better replace it before putting the house on the market. Well, much to ur surprise, these pretty (when was the last time you saw one in a new house?) are EXPENSIVE. Most of them in the $600 dollar range!!!Anyway, we just happened to find a used GE Profile . No big deal, we'd just order a new on and that would be quite a good deal. Guess what, the decorative front panels cost $100 at most places. We did a lot of internet searching and finally found this piece of black sheet metal handle costs? About $90 for an 18" plastic handle and two srews!!! We searched again, found one for $55. Its on the way.So, we still get a compactor for under $400. Not that bad. Here is the kicker. From catalog, the decorative front panel (black sheet metal) and the handle sell for around $200. But I got to the whole drawer, can assembly, with about 20-25 parts including the bucket, latches, frame, rollar bearings etc, sells for only $180.Bottom line is, GE is ripping people off for trim pieces in a big way.
The question: Is this typical for all appliance makers? Or is it just GE? (I'm interested because I'm considering buying Monogram duel fuel range from the same place. It is in trim is just a GE thing, then I'm not going to buy anything else from GE.

 

[2manyrocks]

I won't even bring up the brand name, but we bought a new refrigerator and the plastic things that hold the door shelves keep breaking because they are made of such thin plastic.

the door handle on the new dishwasher also broke and would up buying a used one on an on line auction site. We had a kitchenaid in the old house that was old when we moved in and even older when we moved out. Other than replacing the door seal once, never had a problem with it.

Then there was the high efficiency washing machine we bought about three years ago that broke because the spider arm assembly is a bad design. The life expectancy of the replacement assembly is about another three years and we didn't see the sense in fixing the same defect every three years.

The manufacturers have the expertise to build good machines, but they don't. So many manufacturers are now owned by the same companies that I suspect there isn't the level of competition that there used to be.

 

[Western]

I quit buying anything I can with GE on it after the Iran deal and on top of the political arrangement with CEO Jeffrey Emmelt. To many other choices.. I do how ever think they "used to" make good products, but I think almost every thing is in the sub-par range. It seems as a society we have demanded lower prices so long and so loud, that we are buying the results. We loose in the race to make "things" cheaper.

 

[charlz]

Our GE trash compactor died about 6 years after it was installed, stripped drive gear. GE wants $65 for a 3-4" plastic gear and probably should also replace the little gear next to it...... we just use it as a regular trash can

 

[charlz]

Yep, and I don't understand it. Of course, it's not just appliances, but I still wonder about things like replacing returnable, reusable glass bottles for so many things, like milk, sodas, beer, etc. with plastic, paper, and aluminum, so much of which goes into the landfills. And the huge amounts of paper and plastic "packaging" for everything.

I spent some time around the trash/recycling industry. The 'problem' with glass is that it is very heavy and abrasive. You need to have a place really, really close that can melt down old glass and reuse it in order to not lose your shirt. Washing and reusing the bottles only works if everyone is using the same bottles or everything is bottled locally... not the case these days.

IIRC I was at a pretty new recycling place in Santa Clara County, CA in the early/mid 90's where they recycled paper, plastic and glass in 3-part trucks. Where the trucks would dump the glass bin it was then pushed by skidsteer into a hopper built into the concrete floor and go up a conveyor. They said they wore the 'regular concrete' floor down something like 12" within the first year of operation. They jack hammered that area out and replaced it with some super-duper hard concrete. Up in the processing equipment there was a place where the crushed glass would fall down an angled chute and hit a plate which re-directed it around a corner. Forget the exact thickness, somewhere around 1/2", but they said that plate had to be replaced every few months as it wore through. Anything the glass contacted had to be replaced every few months.

Eventually the glass made it into the back of an 'end dump' semi trailer (curve bottom dirt trailer) They said something like 12-18 inches of crushed glass put the truck at the legal load limit.... not much volume compared to weight.


FYI Just because you are throwing plastics into the 'trash' doesn't mean they are not doing separation before it hits the landfill. Many places have MERF's (Materials Extraction and Recycling Facility) that the trash goes through to separate recyclables. This is an alternative to curbside recycling. The Federal Government passed some recycling laws and all the cities and counties had to come up with some kind of recycling plan and hit certain targets... don't know the current details.

Plastics at least have some hope of being recycled... most glass is likely going straight to the landfill.

 

[marimus]

We bought a new washer a few years back. At the time we shopped around looking for a good unit, and I too won't mention the brand but we basically purchased it because the washer was made in the USA which we felt reassuring.

We ended up getting it repaired twice under warranty, and I believe the third time around they replaced the whole unit.

The repairman said it was really common on that model, because it had no filter before the water pump, all the dirt wore them out really quickly and don't even mention small change.

When they replaced the unit we sold it still in the box and bought another brand.

Another "disposable" appliance we bought was a new fridge, that was completely sealed. There was literally no way of opening it for repair of any of the parts, and when we had a small problem, the manufacturer replaced it with a new one

 

[N80]

The thing that bothers me about this is that this handle and the front panel each cost more than any of the other parts on the machine. And I was wrong, my wife can't find where she saw the handle for $55. I spent half an hour searching and the lowest price I can find is $78. The foot pedal, which is also plastic and about the same size and shape is $14.

And I'm not necessarily knocking GE. This may be a common practice. As mentioned, it sure is for cars. Plastic trim costs more than water pumps and starters.

And again, we'll still come out ahead compared to buying new. Its just the principle of the thing. It is such a calculated and in-your-face rip off.

 

[ultrarunner]

I concur with your observations... more than 25 years in the Rental Property Business and have seen many changes.

Some regular GE electric cook top knobs can retail at $34 EACH... I paid around $200 for the cook-tops new and now 4 knobs with tax cost nearly $150.

Whirlpool still provides quality knobs in a set that retails for $23 for all 4.

I'm starting to run into problems with Magic Chef... some parts I need are simply not available new at all... 10 year old side by side refrigerator can't get shelf and door shelf parts... had 2 where the hinge broke in the same spot and no hinge assemblies... I was fit to be tied so I machined a better hinge pivot and 4 and 5 years and still holding up.

Lots of manufacturers, like GE, have realized replacement parts can be a profit center instead of a service after sale.

I have so far resisted buying any appliance with electronic controls... I seen too many high end 12 to 15 year old cars with unobtainable electronics and imagine it could be much worse with appliances.

A surprise has been a couple of Jenn-Air cook tops... all the parts have been available for the circa 1975 and 1977... still well made and available as components or assemblies...

Thankfully, I no longer supply appliances where-ever possible... nearly 50% of my service calls are appliance related and more than half are tenant error or damage...

I better stop before I really get carried away...

 

[dmccarty]

We had a Maytag dishwasher back at the city house that we got cheap from the dealer. The dealer was a family owned business that was getting out of selling appliances because they could not compete with HD and Lowes. He was going to refocus the business on the laundry store and REPAIR service.

Our control board in the dishwasher failed after the first use. Repaired under warranty and never had a problem again.

When we built the house we put in Maytag appliances because they had the features we wanted that no body else offered, we were in a new town with a small family business from which to buy the appliances, and we were happy with the dishwasher.

That dishwasher is a mess. The control board failed in the first week or two but repaired under warranty. Then we had another problem that required a service call. The wheels for the racks are made from cheap plastic and cannot handle loads with heavy dishes and eventually failed. Of course you could not buy the wheels you had to purchase a new rack.

I found a cheaper temporary solution that would work for a few months and then fail again but eventually I was able to find some brass parts and some reworking of the basket the problem was fixed. I don't think it cost me a couple of dollars to fix it properly which is how it should have been built.

The dishwasher is also very noisy now. To be fair it COULD be our water with high mineral content but I am not convinced.

The range and microwave have been perfect.

The fridge compressor went belly up. Thankfully it made weird noises before failing and we caught it before the compressor left us without a fridge. At least by buying from the small store he would have given us a fridge to use while ours was being fixed...

We would have needed a loaner because it took a week or more to us a new compressor. REALLY? In the age of overnight shipping it takes a WEEK! REALLY? It did though. But it was fixed under warranty, we got lucky again, since the compressor was $400-500. If it fails again we will buy a new fridge and I don't think it will be Maytag.

Hopefully Maytag's new owners will rebuild the brand
after the old CEO destroyed it.

When I was at Lowes the other night I was looking at Fridges. We like the new ones with the freezer on the bottom and two doors for the fridge. There was a GE and a Samsung standing side by side. What was interesting was that it was obvious that the appliances were made by the same company. Only the trim was slightly different. If you compared the shelves it was very obvious the fridges were the same. What I could not tell was if the compressor was the same. Both have a one year warranty which is what the newer Maytags have according to the repair guy. Our old Maytag had a five year warranty which is what saved us.

The Samsung fridge was $200 more than the same fridge with the GE name.

Later,
Dan

 

[Taylortractornut]

going through the same thing right now the old Whirlpoo went down. The valve on the cold stopped working and the screen was clean. My wife only ceans with the cold wash so we just changed the hoses around. Now it has started leaking when the tub fill but not during any cycles. My appliance man in fact the towns ony appliance man was here and I had a run in with him when I caught him smoking a joint on the front porch. I dont want to get a digital control one because of the cost when they break. One person told me theres not anything you cant fix on the old whirl pool. I moved it out on the back porch so it could leak all it wanted to but had to move it back in on a drip tray for a few days till another repairman can be found.