Whole house backup gen set?

/ Whole house backup gen set? #21  
The repeating idea here is that you need to identify what you want to run, and then measure how much current it needs. Otherwise you're guessing and that could be an expensive guess. Your budget will then determine what you do. Whole house automatic and do whatever you want is the most expensive. A 3KW gas generator is cheaper but to use it you'll run to the breaker box and flip on what you are going to use next. This is the cheapest.

I run propane because there are no fuel storage problems. I also have gas logs and the grill on the deck running off the tank. I don't miss filling up those grill bottles at all. This one took me a while to figure out (probably because some years I'm a little slow): No one could give a fuel consumption estimate. To estimate your fuel consumption, think about what a vehicle with an equivalent sized engine would burn going down the road at 55 miles per hour. My generator is an in line 6 cylinder Ford with 4.9 liters (300 cubic inch) displacement. Gallons of gas and gallons of propane will roughly be the same. So I draw a minimum of 1 gallon an hour at idle to a maximum of 4 gallons per hour at full power, and average 2 gallons an hour. That 2 gallons per hour is the going down the road estimate. Like Ken, I put in a 1000 gallon propane tank (so it holds 800 gallons max). So I am good to go for about 8 days if the tank is half full. In this area, if you're not using propane for heat (i.e. don't have monthly deliveries) you have to buy the tank. Only up side is then you can call anyone to fill it. Also remember that you don't need enough capacity/fuel storage to last until the power comes back, you just need enough to last until more fuel can come down the driveway. This is true for everything from 2KW on up.

Finally (yes, I drone on) on RonMar's comment about oversize, you need to hit it close to right. I turned on everything in the house and drew about 175 amps, giving me a 10 amp margin. Actual use saw the load varying from 10 to 90 amps, with the very rare peak when the 10KW resistive electric heater kicked in (that adds 40 amps). I suspect that part of that is when you're in the middle of a power failure, you don't cook a huge feast, do the laundry, do the dishes etc. But you will have moments when the hot water heater, well pump, stove, microwave, heat pump, and dryer are running at once. There is also the factor of if the other occupants of the house will be able to change their energy use patterns when on the generator. After the lights are on for a few hours, some might forget and just assume that the powers on, do what you want.

It all comes back to what do you need to run, and how much power (how many amps) does it take. RonMar and Ken speak the truth, they just use less words than I do.
 
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/ Whole house backup gen set? #22  
Id pick onan power over B&S or honda anyday (i dont know what generak uses)

drive around ad see what powers other stationary large size backup generators. if its diesel its likely a CAT product if it isnt its likely an Onan product.

id be curious to see why other people have gave it a bad reveiw. what problems did they have? "wouldnt run my whole house" isnt an issue with the genset" "used to much fuel" isnt an issue with the genset "it sat for 4 years (without any maintenance or run time) and when the storm hit it wouldnt start" is not a genset issue.

propane vs NG. as long as the gas service stays on you never run out of fuel, on the other hand there is no garentee that it will which will leave you without a fuel supply. Propane on the other hand you keep on site in a large tank and if push comes to shove, you can always run it off of 20lb tanks you scroung up. May only run for an hr or 2 but thats better than nothing!

if your handy you can pick up the other orifice for it (to convert between the two) so you can run off of NG but have propane as a backup.
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #23  
Id pick onan power over B&S or honda anyday (i dont know what generak uses)

drive around ad see what powers other stationary large size backup generators. if its diesel its likely a CAT product if it isnt its likely an Onan product.

id be curious to see why other people have gave it a bad reveiw. what problems did they have? "wouldnt run my whole house" isnt an issue with the genset" "used to much fuel" isnt an issue with the genset "it sat for 4 years (without any maintenance or run time) and when the storm hit it wouldnt start" is not a genset issue.

propane vs NG. as long as the gas service stays on you never run out of fuel, on the other hand there is no garentee that it will which will leave you without a fuel supply. Propane on the other hand you keep on site in a large tank and if push comes to shove, you can always run it off of 20lb tanks you scroung up. May only run for an hr or 2 but thats better than nothing!

if your handy you can pick up the other orifice for it (to convert between the two) so you can run off of NG but have propane as a backup.

I take care of a couple ONAN/cummins units... extremely reliable.

I'm considering a Multiquip Wisperized unit that is trailer mounted... I'll avoid lots of problems by not having it permanent like the Onan/Cummins units... mostly permits, registration fees and yearly drop in visits from the Air Management Board.

The small Multiquip units have Kubota Diesels and the contractors around here really like them...
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #24  
Do they make dual fuel models? I'm not a fatalist but my thought is if I were going to buy a generator I'd want one that I could run for months or years in the event something happened like a bomb taking out the local power plant. Not that I expect that to happen...but if you're going to get a generator why not get one that has you covered for all circumstances?

A propane fueled generator would be good for most cases and makes fuel storage easy. But I'd want the option of also burning gasoline since you can always find a car somewhere with fuel in it to siphon....
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #25  
The whole house system will cost a lot more, but more seriously, will require more fuel.
1*Are you willing to store 100/200 gallons of gas for a week long ice storm type outage.
2*And how are you fixed for driving out of your storm-hit area to buy extra fuel?
1*No cause I'm set up to store diesel in this
2*Home delivery
 
/ Whole house backup gen set?
  • Thread Starter
#26  
yes, we need to confirm size before moving forward. Mainly want to run a well pump, furnace fan/controls, a few lights and a fridge. Furnace is gas forced air and stove is gas so that reduces our electrical consumption. I don't feel the need to run our A/C in summer. House is in the woods and stays fairly comfortable with the windows open. Thanks for the feedback on my original question regarding Cummins Onan and also for the other input on things to consider when buying a generator.
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #27  
I had a B&S powered gasoline genset, but after I got my Kubota I never used gas in the cans. Worried that it would be no good when I needed it, I looked for a diesel genset. I found a guy on eBay who has a bunch of new diesel units. Duetz 2 cylinder with a 12 KW gen. Only rated at 10KW (HP limited). Got it for slightly over a grand, brand new. They were Y2K left overs. Needed a tank and battery, but it has served me will. Fuel is shared with my Kubota (usually 50 gallons on hand). With 10 KW I can run lights, TV, well, my two geo heat pumps, computers, microwave, etc. Maybe not all at the same time, buy house has stayed warm and comfortable during an outage in the dead of winter. I installed a disconnect interlock kit on my breaker box. Consumption is quite good.

As as I am concerned, diesel is the only way to go. PL/Propane costs an arm and a leg to run.

Paul
 

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/ Whole house backup gen set? #28  
yes, we need to confirm size before moving forward. Mainly want to run a well pump, furnace fan/controls, a few lights and a fridge. Furnace is gas forced air and stove is gas so that reduces our electrical consumption. I don't feel the need to run our A/C in summer. House is in the woods and stays fairly comfortable with the windows open. Thanks for the feedback on my original question regarding Cummins Onan and also for the other input on things to consider when buying a generator.

I run what you are mentioning pretty easily off a 4000 watt generator, so you probably don't need much more.

Costco has some pretty good prices on Cummins generators and shipping is included.

Costco - Your search for "generator" produced 28 results
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #29  
I had a B&S powered gasoline genset, but after I got my Kubota I never used gas in the cans. Worried that it would be no good when I needed it, I looked for a diesel genset. I found a guy on eBay who has a bunch of new diesel units. Duetz 2 cylinder with a 12 KW gen. Only rated at 10KW (HP limited). Got it for slightly over a grand, brand new. They were Y2K left overs. Needed a tank and battery, but it has served me will.
Fuel is shared with my Kubota (usually 50 gallons on hand).
With 10 KW I can run lights, TV, well, my two geo heat pumps, computers, microwave, etc.
Paul
What do you store it in.
How do you transfer it ?
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #30  
I tried to buy an Onan/Cummins a year or two ago and couldn't get the time of day out of Onan sales. I figure if that's how important I was to them when trying to give them money, I'd really be up the proverbial creek if I ever needed any kind of warranty service. I ended up getting a commercial grade Kubota 14KW unit.
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #31  
Here's a place that gives good guidance on how big a generator to get
How to Pick the Perfect Standby Generator - Standby Generator Advice from ElectricGeneratorsDirect.com

I bought my generator from them as they had much better prices than my local hivac

Regarding getting home delivery of fuel during an emergency - how are you going to get someone to deliver 25-50 gallons of gas or diesel?

I got a letter from my propane delivery guy this week outlining charges:
propane cost (varies)
administrative fee $10
cash before delivery fee $30
will call fee (less than 5 business day delivery) $100
after hours fee $150 - $250
minimum delivery fee $30
fuel (diesel for their truck) surcharge $10
minimum use fee $70-$150
tank rental fee $70-$150
tank removal fee $150-$500
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #32  
We do not have all those charges here for propane and the tank is free if you get the propane from them.

ken
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #33  
Here's a place that gives good guidance on how big a generator to get
How to Pick the Perfect Standby Generator - Standby Generator Advice from ElectricGeneratorsDirect.com

I bought my generator from them as they had much better prices than my local hivac

Regarding getting home delivery of fuel during an emergency - how are you going to get someone to deliver 25-50 gallons of gas or diesel?

I got a letter from my propane delivery guy this week outlining charges:
propane cost (varies)
administrative fee $10
cash before delivery fee $30
will call fee (less than 5 business day delivery) $100
after hours fee $150 - $250
minimum delivery fee $30
fuel (diesel for their truck) surcharge $10
minimum use fee $70-$150
tank rental fee $70-$150
tank removal fee $150-$500

Sounds like a propane company owned by a banker or credit card exec!!
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #34  
What do you store it in.
How do you transfer it ?

Store it in 55 gal drum. Transfer is with a electric pump that has a hose and fill nozzle. Use it for the tractor as well.

Paul
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #35  
Check out Yamaha or Honda 6600W units.. I own the Yamaha 6600 for 9 years now. I usually have 50 gals gas in barn for equiptment. Don't for get your gasoline vehicles have fuel tanks . Add that up. Chevy truck with 37 gal tank( siphon) can shuttle fuel back to house , plus fill the 5gal cans. BUT, will the gas station have power? . We have had ice storms in the area, that have left some out of power for weeks until lines are repaired. I am not asking for 100% power to my 200amp board, just well pump, some heat , cycle the refrig a few hours a day, keep the pets safe, in summer I can run a 2.5 ton AC on 6600w with some lights. Backfeeding is nice because you can use all your circuits( not exceeding gen output) , not just the 8 or 10 you wired thru the transfer switch. THOUGH YOU MUST UNDERSTAND Electricity and wiring and WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO NOT HARM ANYONE. The units I mentioned are not Briggs, tecumsah..they are Japanese perfection, that will hum along for hours when you need them most. I dont buy cheap crash helmets, climbing ropes etc. I want this gear to work when I need it. ........I know the question was asked for power for computer servers(5kw). What people fail to realize is that a generator needs rest after a 20 hr run, the oil level checked etc. Two 12kw units aren't a bad idea. Big Boats use 2 generators and use one at atime for weeks on end...... I have a 1000gal propane tank but didnt want to generate with propane in case ice comes when I am at 2-300 gals, because I make heat and hot water with it.- bigger genset = more fuel burn ................plus the propane truck cant get up my hill in the ice to my farm.....I can drive 40 miles to a gas station with power and bring back 60-70 gals in jugs and onboard tank.................also gensets like to be loaded down for good health( like a diesel tractor)- do not oversize a genny(you'll waste fuel and harm the generator portion. ...........Don't forget your tractor---PTO gen....dont forget your RV---mine has a 20kw diesel (Kohler/Yanmar) with 300 gals onboard fuel--.........Genny on wheels is handy too, once took the 6600 to my bedridden(hospice) father's house 70 miles away until power was restored 2 days later., buy some 30 amp plugs , 8gu all weather cord- shut off main,, unplug the electric dryer, plug in genny, instant power ................sorry for the ramblings but I have learned by fire with this stuff and seen many make wrong moves... if you dont understand backfeeding dont do it.
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #37  
Check out Yamaha or Honda 6600W units.. I own the Yamaha 6600 for 9 years now. I usually have 50 gals gas in barn for equiptment. Don't for get your gasoline vehicles have fuel tanks . Add that up. Chevy truck with 37 gal tank( siphon) can shuttle fuel back to house , plus fill the 5gal cans. BUT, a day, keep the pets safe, in summer I can plus the propane to a gas station with power and bring back 60-70 gals in jugs and onboard , 8gu all weather cord- shut off main,, unplug the electric dryer, plug in genny, instant power ................sorry for the dont do it.
This would make me very unesay!!!
 
/ Whole house backup gen set? #39  
I am hoping you can help w Cummins Quiet Site GGFC 3384000 Spec B standby generator
12 yrs old i think
no manual
need to add oil
oil cap not identified
can u tell me or post picture which is the oil cap to add oil?
thanks!
 
 
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