R1 versus R4

[Dmace]

One thing I also wondered about was load carrying capabilities of R1 (AG) vs R4 (Industrial). Looking at these two charts for R1 tires and R4 tires, it appears that R1 tires of roughly the same size have a lower load capacity.
For Example:
R1, 18.4-16.1, 44.8" diam., 18.4" width has a load rating of approx 2,810lbs
R4, 14.9-24, 48.6" diam., 14.9" width has a load rating of approx 5,080lbs.
This is the closest in diameter and width that I could find but can't say for sure if this is a realistic comparison, if it is then that is a huge advantage for R4's.

The main reason I went with R4's is that I wanted them loaded for extra stability on hills and extra weight for ground engaging work. The comparable R1's were very skinny and could not carry as much liquid. That and I snowblow my paved road which would be very bumpy with R1's, those R4's are as smooth as slicks on the pavement.

 

[missourithunder]

bp fick wrote "Kubota certainly does offer R1 (Ags), R3(Turfs) and R4 (Ind) on all those models you mentioned."

bp fick,
Out of the 16 Kubota dealerships in Missouri, I spoke with seven of them asking to buy R1's (Ag's) for the BX2660 and BX25. All seven of them said Kubota doesn't offer ag tires for these tractors (but they do for the BX1860...weird). "DP" comes up in their database meaning "depleted item." They said that means Kubota no longer carries that item. They also said that that doesn't mean a dealership in Alaska or timbucktoo may still have some in their inventories. This may have been the situation with your dealer ole friend. I think we were both correct in our statements and I wish a dealer here in Missouri had a set in stock because I would have made the drive to pick them up.

Man oh man is Moss Road & builder making this thread intense or what ???

MissouriThunder

 

[SPYDERLK]

Derek, have you ever experienced the bumpiness of R1s? Not much of a factor if working as opposed to driving on the road. You could focus on it and have an issue I guess. As for size, AGs are some narrower and somewhat taller than R4s. I would guess the internal volume is comparable w/i a few G. The larger diameter gives a longer contact and is a good factor for traction and climbing over things and reducing the abruptness of the bump in doing so. As far as load carrying and ruggedness, AGs are available with rugged Hi-Ply carcasses and various grades of foam fill are available to suit terrain and ballast and weight carry needs. They will never last as long because theres just not as much rubber in ground contact, but retread is an option AFAIK. In the meantime the traction is better.
larry

 

[bp fick]

bp fick,
Out of the 16 Kubota dealerships in Missouri, I spoke with seven of them asking to buy R1's (Ag's) for the BX2660 and BX25. All seven of them said Kubota doesn't offer ag tires for these tractors (but they do for the BX1860...weird). "DP" comes up in their database meaning "depleted item." They said that means Kubota no longer carries that item. They also said that that doesn't mean a dealership in Alaska or timbucktoo may still have some in their inventories. This may have been the situation with your dealer ole friend. I think we were both correct in our statements and I wish a dealer here in Missouri had a set in stock because I would have made the drive to pick them up.

Wow, this is news. No body is offering R1's??? Wierd, if this is the case. Depleted? Meaning, temporarily or for the foreseeable future?

Not good news for the R1 fanboys. Maybe we should/could get Messick to comment.

 

[Builder]

I think it is best to eliminate "challenges" from your machinery every chance you get. In many cases it is an imaginative and inventive challenge to accomplish this. Other times it is as simple as changing a part. In this case its more like changing a part and then overcoming the challenge of marking
the ground.
larry

Larry,

Totally agree, however, there's not much way to eliminate the "challenges" when R-4's are the only realistic option on a TLB, right?

R-1's would never cut it for most TLBs because they're not made for the daily pounding & loader work and frequent driving over roads, broken concrete, etc.

On a CUT, R-4's are not as good for traction as R-1's, but let's face it, driving over my Customer's property with R-1's means a lot deeper ruts & more injury than R-4's. I also use my CUT for harley raking, loader work, etc. I have to drive down the shoulder of roads, cross driveways, etc. For those types of scenarios, R-4's are a good choice. I've seen hundreds of different contractors equipment in my life and can't remember the last time I saw R-1's on anything they put on a jobsite. Not a skid steer, a CUT, or a backhoe.

If I were a farmer, plowing/ ground engaging, logging, etc. of course R-1's would be better choice, but as a percentage, I'd bet less than 20% of the TBN membership uses their tractor for this type of work on a frequent basis. Most guys here have small properties, estates, etc. They mow grass, plow snow, do some dirt/stone moving, etc. The other ~20% (I'd guess) truly farm or do logging work on a frequent basis.

We don't disagree here, but I think to simply state R-4's are "useless" or "stink" is a myopic, uninformed view since R-1's are not available on almost all construction equipment or won't work for many many users.

 

[Builder]

I'm sticking with my experiences about R4s. They stunk on my tractor in my application and you or anyone else couldn't do any different with them. And good luck to anyone that buys them on their CUT if they want to ever switch to R1s. They will most likely have to buy new rims as well as new tires. BIG BUCKS lesson. They really need to think about this thoroughly before purchasing.

Then why do you have turf tires (even lower traction than R-4's) on your own machine?

 

[MossRoad]

Then why do you have turf tires (even lower traction than R-4's) on your own machine?

I chose turfs on my current machine because the primary function for it is mowing lawns, plowing snow on pavement, moving firewood across lawns, maintaining little league ball diamonds, etc... turfs were the best choice for my needs on that machine.

 

[bpattie]

bp fick wrote "Kubota certainly does offer R1 (Ags), R3(Turfs) and R4 (Ind) on all those models you mentioned."



Man oh man is Moss Road & builder making this thread intense or what ???

MissouriThunder

yes they have, it will be interesting to see who has last word.

As for myself, I have had R-1 for 15 years prior to this year. I believe everyone is in agreement that they offer better traction in general. The tractor I have now is narrower than the old wide stance I was used to so I like the R-4 for the wider footprint and added stability. I must say so far I like the R-4's very much so far from the work I have done this Spring, Summer and Fall. As for the best choice, I believe the intended use and area of the country you live in and of course how your tractor comes equipped will determine that. I am anxiously awaiting to see how the R-4's do in the snow for me this Winter.

Now I also agree with the statement that has been made that the skill level of the operator has a lot to do with your abilities to get where you need to get done without getting stuck. From past experience in some serious 4 wheel driving in the mountains, I can attest to the fact that a driver's skill seems to equate about equal to how the rig is equipped.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Wow, this is news. No body is offering R1's??? Wierd, if this is the case. Depleted? Meaning, temporarily or for the foreseeable future?

Not good news for the R1 fanboys. Maybe we should/could get Messick to comment.

- - I just went out and parked the BX1500 AGs in the shade.
larry

 

[Builder]

I chose turfs on my current machine because the primary function for it is mowing lawns, plowing snow on pavement, moving firewood across lawns, maintaining little league ball diamonds, etc... turfs were the best choice for my needs on that machine.

Then I'm sure you can understand why R-4's are the tire of choice for the work I and many others do. I have a lot of money tied up on construction & property maintenance equipment sitting on R-4's and they don't "stink". They perform quite well and that's based on 10,000+ hours of experience. Just like turf tires perform quite well on lawns for you.

As for the best choice, I believe the intended use and area of the country you live in and of course how your tractor comes equipped will determine that. I am anxiously awaiting to see how the R-4's do in the snow for me this Winter.

As for the best choice, I believe the intended use and area of the country you live in and of course how your tractor comes equipped will determine that. I am anxiously awaiting to see how the R-4's do in the snow for me this Winter.

Now I also agree with the statement that has been made that the skill level of the operator has a lot to do with your abilities to get where you need to get done without getting stuck. From past experience in some serious 4 wheel driving in the mountains, I can attest to the fact that a driver's skill seems to equate about equal to how the rig is equipped.

Well said.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Larry,

Totally agree, however, there's not much way to eliminate the "challenges" when R-4's are the only realistic option on a TLB, right?

R-1's would never cut it for most TLBs because they're not made for the daily pounding & loader work and frequent driving over roads, broken concrete, etc.

On a CUT, R-4's are not as good for traction as R-1's, but let's face it, driving over my Customer's property with R-1's means a lot deeper ruts & more injury than R-4's. I also use my CUT for harley raking, loader work, etc. I have to drive down the shoulder of roads, cross driveways, etc. For those types of scenarios, R-4's are a good choice. I've seen hundreds of different contractors equipment in my life and can't remember the last time I saw R-1's on anything they put on a jobsite. Not a skid steer, a CUT, or a backhoe.
[SNIP]
We don't disagree here, but I think to simply state R-4's are "useless" or "stink" is a myopic, uninformed view since [R-1's are not available on almost all construction equipment] or won't work for many many users.

[Right there is why you dont see them.] It is a major deterrent to those who would choose to outfit some with hi-ply R1s with appropriate foam fill.

Construction sites rarely require max traction - theres another machine or another way, so they err on the side of caution, not to mention being forced there by so much caution preventing the availability of options. That essentilly happens with tractor buyers who have R4s foisted on them at sale because theyre on the lot. They tried it with me too. Fortunately Id sat on [somebody elses] R4s once after being familiar with R1s. Rude awakening. Took a hard look at the reasons. Too hard bodied and pressured, smaller diameter, slick tread.
larry

 

[MossRoad]

Then I'm sure you can understand why R-4's are the tire of choice for the work I and many others do.

I never said they weren't!

And therein lies the rub. I understand why people need R4s, you understand why they need R4s, I agree that some people need R4s and you agree that some people need R4s. Yet when I said they were the wrong tire for my needs on my machine you questioned my abilities as an operator.

Now if you'll excuse me, I now have to go get stitches in my tongue!!!

 

[Danno1]

Danno1,
There's no mention of Industrial tires in your post but what you're basicly saying is Ag tires are superior to all other tractor tires yes ? If so, I agree.


MissouriThunder

MT,

I wasn't saying that anything was better than any other. All have their place. I was just posting the chart as the OP was asking about the rice paddy tires (R2).

The industrials tires are labelled as R4 in the chart.

.

 

[missourithunder]

Danno1 wrote - "I wasn't saying that anything was better than any other. All have their place."

Danno1,
Very good point and I re-read your chart and found the R4s. Thanks.

MissouriThunder

 

[Builder]

Construction sites rarely require max traction -

Buwahahahahahahahaha!!! OMG, That there might be the funniest post I've ever read!!! You gotta be KIDDIN me!!!

I've been on construction sites so muddy & slipperty where workers can't even WALK across them!!

 

[SPYDERLK]

[Right there is why you dont see them.] It is a major deterrent to those who would choose to outfit some with hi-ply R1s with appropriate foam fill.

Construction sites rarely require max traction - theres another machine or another way, so they err on the side of caution, not to mention being forced there by so much caution preventing the availability of options. That essentialy happens with tractor buyers who have R4s foisted on them at sale because theyre on the lot. They tried it with me too. Fortunately Id sat on [somebody elses] R4s once after being familiar with R1s. Rude awakening. Took a hard look at the reasons. Too hard bodied and pressured, smaller diameter, slick tread.
larry

Construction sites rarely require max traction...

Buwahahahahahahahaha!!! OMG, That there might be the funniest post I've ever read!!! You gotta be KIDDIN me!!!

I've been on construction sites so muddy & slipperty where workers can't even WALK across them!!

Did you have a a point to make there?

 

[Builder]

Did you have a a point to make there?

yeah man.....that joke you just told...... "Construction sites rarely require max traction" That's some funny stuff right there! Hope you don't mind if I take that one to work to share tomorrow!!!!

We were working on freshly thawed frost back in March/April. It's a workout just trying to stay on your feet!!!!! Add to that working with tools or driving equipment through it.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[bpattie]

boy thought this thread had calmed down some , but I check back and see it has flared up again. maybe everybody should just agree to disagree.

 

[Builder]

I'm sorry......I just can't stop laughing at that joke "construction sites rarely require max traction".......sorry....ahahahaha.....won't happen again.....OMG. aahhhahahahaha.......sorry.

 

[SPYDERLK]

yeah man.....that joke you just told...... "Construction sites rarely require max traction" That's some funny stuff right there! Hope you don't mind if I take that one to work to share tomorrow!!!!

We were working on freshly thawed frost back in March/April. It's a workout just trying to stay on your feet!!!!! Add to that working with tools or driving equipment through it.

Thanks for the laugh.

I'm sorry......I just can't stop laughing at that joke "construction sites rarely require max traction".......sorry....ahahahaha.....won't happen again.....OMG. aahhhahahahaha.......sorry.

So, I guess your point is not logically consistent... or else construction site people just cant figure out, or dont care, what they need to deal with slippery conditions better.