Grapple Grappling for answers on Grapples

[swmich42]

Thanks for the feedback. Can you provide the advantage a skid steer attachment has? From what I have seen, it appears to allow an easier FEL attachment. (neighbor has bobcat) If I go this route, (Skid Steer FEL set-up = $500 additional) would I need to ensure each FEL attachment has skid steer attachment, and would that mean either equipping each FEL attachment with unique skid steer linkages, or creating my own? (ie fabricate) Again, I am comparing cost to have JD dealer order, vs Markham or similar ship to my address. I will be ordering the 400CX JD FEL from the dealer. Comparing the FEL attachments from the dealer to Markham:

Markham 72" toothed bucket: $1045 (1/4" wrap bucket with teeth) {delivered}

JD Dealer: 73" toothed bucket: $ 1185 (?)

Not knowing enough to compare, it appears Markham's set up is possibly better, due to those on this forum, that have used the Markham product before.

Markham Grapple:

48” with single top tine and added spacers in the bottom between the teeth, to decrease space from 9" to 4.5". (Your explanation on a narrower grapple made a lot of sense)

I plan to inquire with JD dealer, to purchase and install 3rd remote. ($ 351.00) As long as I ensure the remote the dealer installs will work with the Markham grapple, when the Markham grapple arrives, I could install with minimal effort.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm not sure the JD mount is any less easy to attach than the skidsteer (never done a JD) but the skidsteer mount is more "universal" so you could rent attachments (or borrow your neighbor's Bobcat forks for example) if you had the universal. I'd say that it is personal preference rather than an obvious choice. I'd go for the skidsteer myself rather than any proprietary mount as it is just more flexible. Lots of used skidsteer attachments available and often lower priced than JD attachments.

JD vs Markham bucket...probably comes down to whether you want green or black.

Controlling a grapple with a rear remote is a great way to save yourself a bundle of cash. Just make sure that the remote lever on the JD is within easy and natural reach for your right hand once you let go of the FEL joystick. Ideally it would be the same motion as reaching for the stickshift on a car...no need to look and muscle memory will quickly make it automatic. You probably don't need a third set of remotes to run the grapple however. All you need is one. If you have a top and tilt set up you can easily disconnect the tilt for example and use that for the grapple as it would be very unusual to be using the tilt function at the same time as you are using the grapple. Basically you just need one set of rear remotes and if the tractor comes with that then I'd suggest you just use it to begin with and see if it works well for you. I controlled my grapple on my first tractor with such a setup and never had any complaint.

You should be sure to tell Markham to supply "Pioneer fittings" rather than the flat faced skidsteer hydraulic fittings. Pioneer fittings are the traditional tractor hydraulic connectors. If you are unsure of what to order from Markham just have them deliver the grapple without fittings and then take the Markham hoses to get the fittings from your dealer.

 

[dangerdoc]

You should be sure to tell Markham to supply "Pioneer fittings" rather than the flat faced skidsteer hydraulic fittings. Pioneer fittings are the traditional tractor hydraulic connectors. If you are unsure of what to order from Markham just have them deliver the grapple without fittings and then take the Markham hoses to get the fittings from your dealer.

As the flat faced fittings cost at least 3x what the pioneer fittings costs and neither are free, I would at least ask for the fittings that you think will work.

I kind of regret not asking for the flat fittings and just buying the Pioneer fittings at the local shop. I would have had the flat fittings handy in case I got the urge to rent an attachment. It's not a big deal because the fittings wrench off and on.

 

[Big Bri]

i've been reading this thread and looking at all of the pic's posted and i got to say i am disapointed. i bought a 66" bobcat grapple bucket a couple of months ago and i can't pick up root ball the size ya'll are lifting. i know i can't lift rocks that big and don't think i could load it down with logs and lift.

i talked to my dealer after first bring home my tractor about how much my fel should lift, i can hardly lift the bucket when it is fully loaded with dirt with a little crown. . . is that normal?

i would love to be able to lift branches and logs the way ya'll are. . . i have to make more smaller grabs. any ideas?

fyi i own a kubota mx5100

 

[tdan300]

i've been reading this thread and looking at all of the pic's posted and i got to say i am disapointed. i bought a 66" bobcat grapple bucket a couple of months ago and i can't pick up root ball the size ya'll are lifting. i know i can't lift rocks that big and don't think i could load it down with logs and lift.

i talked to my dealer after first bring home my tractor about how much my fel should lift, i can hardly lift the bucket when it is fully loaded with dirt with a little crown. . . is that normal?

i would love to be able to lift branches and logs the way ya'll are. . . i have to make more smaller grabs. any ideas?

fyi i own a kubota mx5100

I have the Grand L5740. With the pallet forks on the front, filled rear tires, and an 800# counterweight on the 3-pt, I was able to pick up a one ton pallet of grain out of my horse trailer and transport it. Funny, though, even though I was able to pick it up, I was not able to curl, so must have been right at the limit. I know I moved VERY slow and careful with the FEL as low to the ground as possible.
I would think the MX5100 should match that. Have you verified the hydraulic pressure on your tractor? May be worth talking with your dealer about that.

 

[IslandTractor]

any ideas?

1) have your dealer check the pressure and relief valves on your hydraulic system/loader. Make sure they are to spec.

2) the 66 inch Bobcat grapple bucket is HEAVY and is chewing up a good proportion of your lift capacity. Those of us who are lifting big rocks etc have light duty grapples that weigh about half of what your bucket does.

3) I presume you have a LA1000+ loader...that should have a lift capacity of over a ton to full height. If you cannot lift a good sized log then something is wrong.

4) As Messick always says (accurately), Kubota is very conservative. Even though you have a great tractor, it is set up with a bias of lasting for ever rather than lifting the most. You may just need to live with that or ignore Kubota's very conservative ratings and increase pressure to the loader.

 

[dex3361]

i've been reading this thread and looking at all of the pic's posted and i got to say i am disapointed. i bought a 66" bobcat grapple bucket a couple of months ago and i can't pick up root ball the size ya'll are lifting. i know i can't lift rocks that big and don't think i could load it down with logs and lift.

i talked to my dealer after first bring home my tractor about how much my fel should lift, i can hardly lift the bucket when it is fully loaded with dirt with a little crown. . . is that normal?

i would love to be able to lift branches and logs the way ya'll are. . . i have to make more smaller grabs. any ideas?

fyi i own a kubota mx5100

When I checked the pressure on my LA 703A it was 300# low and I bumped it up to the spec and it made a very noticeable difference. It takes about 30 minutes to add or take away shims.

 

[gtrippleb]

I've been reading this thread for the past 2 hours and I'm thinking of how I would be able to put a grapple on my CCY Sc2400? I would be going with the 48 light duty grapple from Markham to make sure I can lift it and a load. I asume I would either have to go with a kit from WR Long or figure out some other way to attach the hydraulics, currently I just have the control for the bucket and i don't have another hydraulic attaching area that I'm aware of. I'd have to look at the tractor again to be sure. Any Ideas on what I would need to get the hydraulics setup? Thanks to everyone who has added their insight.

 

[IslandTractor]

There are lots of threads on rear remote versus diverter valve versus electric over hydraulic control options for grapples. I'd suggest searching on those terms for starters.

We all start off thinking these terms are unintelligible gibberish but you will learn pretty quickly that all three options are generally viable and there are both practical and financial reasons to choose one over the other for each individual.

 

[Oldchuck]

I bought the Markham 48 last winter. Standard configuration. Have used it quite a bit. Valuable tool. However not long after I started using it the damned thing bent significantly to the right. All of the tines bent as a unit. I don't think I was using it all that hard mostly picking up trash wood, sometimes frozen in the ground.

I used it bent that way for several months and it didn't seem to work all that bad. Couple weeks ago the guy doing excavation for me put his big track hoe to work and bent it back. Then I had a guy weld on 1/4" reinforcing plates on the outside tines and put reinforcing plates between each of the interior tines similar to the gussets on the tips. I don't think I will be able to bend it again. Didn't add much weight but did add a lot of strength. I was treated to some serious and colorful criticism of the design by the rock and dirt guy.

I'd recommend having Markham beef it up before delivery.

 

[Samandothers]

Oldchuck that is the first I remember any stating they damaged one of the grapples. How did you do it, or do you know when it happened? The Markham's may appreciate and email or feedback. Glad you were able to 'set things straight'.

 

[IslandTractor]

To bend the tines all in one direction must have involved a lateral force. Grapples are designed for up and down straight on forces and not for either twisting or lateral forces. In looking at the LD48 Markham compared to my LD48 Millonzi, I notice a few differences that might make the Markham a tad less resistant to a lateral force. First, the Millonzi has six tines whereas the Markham as only 5. Also, the Markham tines are built like an "L" which means there is a pretty long stretch of the tine that is supported only by the elbow of the L all the way at the back of the tine. A lateral force at the tip of the grapple would put a lot of leverage on that vulnerable elbow area. The Millonzi has a more cupped tine design with thicker (taller, both grapples are 3/8 mild steel) root at the corner. I don't know if that makes a difference but intuitively it seems like it would offer more resistance to lateral force. See photos (Millonzi on ends, Markham in middle).

Still, it seems most likely that an inadvertent lateral or twisting force was applied to the grapple. I've never seen a story on TBN of a grapple breaking or being damaged by straight on or up and down forces.

Again, I am not an engineer but I did spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express.

 

[J_J]

I've been reading this thread and looking at all of the pic's posted and i got to say i am disappointed. i bought a 66" bobcat grapple bucket a couple of months ago and i can't pick up root ball the size y'all are lifting. i know i can't lift rocks that big and don't think i could load it down with logs and lift.

i talked to my dealer after first bring home my tractor about how much my FEL should lift, i can hardly lift the bucket when it is fully loaded with dirt with a little crown. . . is that normal?

i would love to be able to lift branches and logs the way y'all are. . . i have to make more smaller grabs. any ideas?

FYI i own a Kubota mx5100

As far as lifting things, I believe most manufactures rate their units at the pin holes on the lifting arms, where the bucket attaches. If they state you can lift 1000 lbs, you then have to take away the weight of the bucket, or forks. This is assuming that the hydraulic pump is working properly, and the FEL valve is not worn very much.
When using the FEL, and the relief come on, then the pressure is at the set pressure, and is a good indicator of your pumps capability. There could be at least three relief valves in the hydraulic system, and all could be set differently. If you think it is not lifting correctly, you are probably right. I would get a hyd gage, and test the system. You need to know the pumps operating pressure, and if that is low, then everything will operate at diminished capacity.

Your roll back cylinders, should have a lot of force, because of the geometry, the lift cylinders are pushing at more of an angle. Have you noticed the relief activating when trying to tilt back? I had a worn pump on my machine, and could only lift half of the rated load.

I would recommend getting a gage and fittings to just plug in where you want to test, and you should be able to answer just about all your questions.

 

[horsinaround]

I have a 72" heavy duty quick attach skid steer solutions grapple for sale if anyone is interested.
Shoot me a PM.
It is listed in the classifieds.

 

[Ken45101]

I bought the Markham 48 last winter. Standard configuration. Have used it quite a bit. Valuable tool. However not long after I started using it the damned thing bent significantly to the right. All of the tines bent as a unit. I don't think I was using it all that hard mostly picking up trash wood, sometimes frozen in the ground.

I used it bent that way for several months and it didn't seem to work all that bad. Couple weeks ago the guy doing excavation for me put his big track hoe to work and bent it back. Then I had a guy weld on 1/4" reinforcing plates on the outside tines and put reinforcing plates between each of the interior tines similar to the gussets on the tips. I don't think I will be able to bend it again. Didn't add much weight but did add a lot of strength. I was treated to some serious and colorful criticism of the design by the rock and dirt guy.

I'd recommend having Markham beef it up before delivery.

I've read through this entire thread and it's been very useful since I want to buy a grapple for my skid steer, but I may also use it on the tractor.

I'm still not clear, however, as to whether I want the flat bottom, or the clamshell type. Sigh, so much reading, and still no answer, LOL.

I just wanted to note, however, that Oldchucks's comment about the Markham bending, they only make a 48" in a light duty model. Perhaps instead of recommending Markham "beef it up", one should consider one of their heavier duty models?

Ken

 

[IslandTractor]

I've read through this entire thread and it's been very useful since I want to buy a grapple for my skid steer, but I may also use it on the tractor.

I'm still not clear, however, as to whether I want the flat bottom, or the clamshell type. Sigh, so much reading, and still no answer, LOL.

I just wanted to note, however, that Oldchucks's comment about the Markham bending, they only make a 48" in a light duty model. Perhaps instead of recommending Markham "beef it up", one should consider one of their heavier duty models?

Ken

I have a 48" light duty grapple that has been used extensively and aggressively on a 40 hp tractor. So long as you don't put assymmetric loads on these things it is next to impossible to bend them IMO. At least with a CUT.
I would be more careful with a skidsteer.

Markham is happy to build 48" grapples with 1/2 rather than 3/8 steel if you like.

 

[Samandothers]

Ken,
I have really enjoyed my 60" Markham grapple. Mine is more the open bottom or more 'L' shaped style. It is great for getting under logs, rocks, or brush to pick them up. I don't use it for 'raking' out roots. I have rolled it over and used to to level a little dirt or push on some roots or rocks but I have not tried to dig it in the ground and drive forward with the intent to rake an area for roots. I would think if that was the primary function a more dozer blade style, clam shell style of a root rake may be better.
It is probably one of the most useful implements I have.