Oil & Fuel Diesel fuel vs gasoline

[Uncle Wayne]

I'm expecting delivery this week of my 4320. This will be my first piece of equipment that has used diesel fuel. While shopping, all the dealers told me the problems with diesel tractor starting in cold weather had been solved. They all cautioned me against letting it run out of fuel.

I asked about getting a storage tank for diesel fuel and most recommended against it. They said no more fuel than I'd use, the fuel would probably "go bad" in the tank.

Looking back through my records, last year I used 250 gallons of gasoline in my tractor and bought it usually in 5 gallon cans. While inconvenient sometimes, it's probably still my best option to purchase my diesel fuel the same way. Your opinions appreciated.

Some dealers recommended buying "off road" diesel fuel. Only one station locally has that type of fuel. What's the difference in the storage life between regular diesel and off road diesel?

 

[MikeInEburg]

What's the difference in the storage life between regular diesel and off road diesel?

The only difference between "on road" and "off road" is the color and the tax amount.

While inconvenient, 5 gallons at a time has the advantage of simplicity. Some folks here have worked out various systems for storing more fuel - and frankly, I'm envious of some of them. We just don't use enough in a year to justify.

Mike

 

[jdbower]

I doubt you'll have any cold start issues in 'Bama, I had no issues up here in MA last winter and it was a tad chilly!

I agree that storing fuel for more than a few months is probably not a great idea, but there are some solutions between a storage tank and a 5-gallon tank. For example, Northern Tool has a 25-gallon tank that could cut down the number of trips you make but still get used up fairly quickly. 250 gallons a year averages 50 trips to the gas station a year which is about once a week - not too bad but if you pick up 20-25 gallons once a month or so it may make things easier if you can lug around that much weight.

 

[WH401]

I agree with the simplicity of the 5 gallon can. It's not overly complicated and while yes it is more work than a stand alone tank, it's easy and gets the job done. I use 3 5-gallon yellow diesel cans and just refill them as I need it. I want to look into getting a 30 gallon drum and filling that instead. I feel that that amount isn't an overly large size where you might run into storage problems. Most of the tank sizes on diesel trucks these days are about 30 gallons so I don't see it being a problem. 250 gallons is a lot of fuel to be moving in 5 gallon cans, but if it doesn't bother you than "if ain't broke, don't fix it".

There are lots of guys on here that have a couple hundred gallon storage tanks and they don't run into fuel complications. As long as you treat any large amount of diesel fuel with fuel stabilizers and bio-cides than the fuel should be good for a while.

Another thing to add is that I would look into getting a good fuel additive. The additive is going to add the lubricity back into the fuel which is no longer there in the new Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, it will boost the cetane number (like the octane number in gasoline) of the diesel fuel, and it will keep the fuel stabilized. The biggest name in diesel fuel additives that I know of is Power Service. There are two commonly sold bottles of this, one is a gray bottle that is catered more to the summer months, and one that is white which is catered more toward the winter months as it has anti-gel properties to it. I use the white bottle all year round so that I don't have to change between the two. I just pour some into the 5 gallon can before I fill it and I call that good.

 

[Rob-D]

WH- That's exactly how I do it up North, 5 gallon cans and Power Service white all year.

I have a 250 gallon drum of diesel spare (#2) for my home heating that I can tap into if things get rough but basically I use the three can method.

These guys sip oil!

 

[ddivinia]

Regarding cold starts - make sure you know how to engage the glow plugs - it is not automatic.

If you don't run the tractor all the time - consider a battery tender to keep the battery up.

Depending on what you do with your 4320, you might be very impressed about how long it take to use a tank of fuel.

Bulk fuel & red diesel - unless you are running 100s of gal a year - it is not worth messing with. I have a 550 G tank. I have to take atleast 400G or I pay a delivery charge. Also, depending on the supplier - the tax savings can be minimal.

Get a couple 5 gallon jugs (yellow) ones so you don't screw up and put the wrong fuel in it or something else. See how it goes. With my 4720 I had a couple 5 gallons jugs and it kept me in business with minimal headache.

Storage wise - it takes a while for diesel to go bad.

Off road diesel - don't run it in your truck. If they bust you with it - it can be expensive. They will cut your fuel filter open and find the dye - even if you don't have any in the tank at the time.

D.

 

[radman1]

You will use less diesel than gas for the same size of tractor and doing the same work. Myself, I would not want to haul 250 gal of fuel in 5 gal cans. I would get a 50 or 100 gal tank with manual pump. I use a 50 gal tank and it works well for my needs. I use another 50 gal tank for lawnmower, atv and other gas powered tools. I place both tanks on carts with wheel and move them where I need them. I use my loader to put them in the truck or trailer when I need to refill. I fill the diesel about 2x a year but when I haul my tractor or Toolcat, I will fill them at gas stations when I fill my truck. My toolcat will hold 20 gallons.
Look around on craigslist and in classifieds. Good used tanks, often with pumps, can be found for less than half price of new. Diesel, especially treated diesel, can sit it a tank for a year with no problems. On the farm I have 500 gal tank for truck use, 1000 gal tank for tractors and 1000-2000 gal tanks for irrigation.

 

[ddivinia]

250G of gas before I bet he uses 50G of diesel

D.

 

[BarryinMN]

Here local fuel dealers require 150g minimum for free delivery, off road dyed red means no tax.

I watch the fuel futures markets and when they bottom in late Jan or early Feb I top off my 240g tank. The dealer recommended a shop for the tank & I added a 12v fuel pump, particulate & water filters. I put it in a shed on a pallet so it's portable.

The tax and market savings averages $1-1.50 gal.

MN has a biodiesel mandate of 2 or 5% so lubricity is improved but gelling is more of a problem around 30-35F. In the Fall I glug powerservice in each machine tank. Not real scientific but works.

Only problem I see with 5g cans are multiple sources of contamination.

 

[LBrown59]

.
1*I asked about getting a storage tank for diesel fuel and most recommended against it. They said no more fuel than I'd use, the fuel would probably "go bad" in the tank.
Looking back through my records, last year I used
2* 250 gallons of gasoline in my tractor and bought it usually in 5 gallon cans.
3*While inconvenient sometimes, it's probably still my best option to purchase my diesel fuel the same way. Your opinions appreciated.
Some dealers recommended buying "off road" diesel fuel.
4*Only one station locally has that type of fuel.
5*What's the difference in the storage life between regular diesel and off road diesel?

1*That would depend on size of tank .
2*That's a hard sloppy inconvenient way to use 250 gallons.
3*It really don't take much fuel usage to justify your own fueling system.
4*You need to check with fuel suppliers in your area for the off road stuff as they are a more lilely source for it than the service stations. That is why there is only station in your area selling it.
5*None.

The only difference between "on road" and "off road" is the color and the tax amount.
5*While inconvenient, 5 gallons at a time has
6*Some folks here have worked out various systems for storing more fuel - and frankly, I'm envious of some of them.
7*We just don't use enough in a year to justify.
Mike

5*A fuel system rig is far simpler than the clumsey awkward heavy sloppy 5 gallon can backbreakers.
6*Here are a couple of systems that I built .
May 2008.

Nov. 2008
7*If you use 4 or more gallon a month it's worth it.

 

[LBrown59]

1* Northern Tool has a 25-gallon tank that could cut down the number of trips you make but still get used up fairly quickly. 250 gallons a year averages 50 trips to the gas station a year which is about once a week - not too bad but if you pick up 20-25 gallons once a month or so it may make things easier if you can lug around that much weight.

1*These cost as much or more than building your own better storage rig.

I agree with the simplicity of the 5 gallon can. It's not overly complicated and while yes it is more work than a stand alone tank,
1*it's easy and gets the job done. I use 3 5-gallon yellow diesel cans and just refill them as I need it.
2*I want to look into getting a 30 gallon drum and filling that instead. I feel that that amount isn't an overly large size where you might run into storage problems.
3*Most of the tank sizes on diesel trucks these days are about 30 gallons so I don't see it being a problem.
There are lots of guys on here that have a couple hundred gallon storage tanks and they don't run into fuel complications. As long as you treat any large amount of diesel fuel with fuel stabilizers and bio-cides than the fuel should be good for a while.good.

1*I find 5 gallon cans anything but easy.


2*Something like this?
3*Diesel trucks go through 30 gallon of diesel a lot faster than tractors do.

WH- That's exactly how I do it up North, 5 gallon cans and Power Service white all year.

4*I have a 250 gallon drum of diesel spare (#2) for my home heating that I can tap into if things get rough but basically I use the three can method.

These guys sip oil!

4*I would heat the house and run the tractor all from the same tank.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

4*I would heat the house and run the tractor all from the same tank.

That's what my son does. When they fill the home furnace oil tank he has them top up the tractor storage tank. For myself, replaced oil furnace with NG in Dec 2006. The little Honda is still running happily on the furnace oil that was pumped out of the old tank. I have a 250 Gal tank with pump, but a full tank would likely last me 10 years.

I use the 20 liter yellow can method for the JD for many reasons:

Fuel use is minimal so inconvenience is not a big factor
Didn't want any possible warranty claim issues from using dyed fuel in JD
Bulk fuel delivery is usually 450 liter minimum
Bulk delivery is / was about $0.10 per liter higher than pump pricing
Pump fuel is always fresh

 

[LBrown59]

1*Bulk fuel & red diesel - unless you are running 100s of gal a year - it is not worth messing with.
2*I have a 550 G tank. I have to take atleast 400G or I pay a delivery charge.
3* Also, depending on the supplier - the tax savings can be minimal.
Off road diesel - don't run it in your truck. If they bust you with it - it can be expensive. They will cut your fuel filter open and find the dye - even if you don't have any in the tank at the time.
D.

1*It is for me and i don't run anywhere near that.
2*I can get as little as 25 gallon delevered without any delivery charge.
3*I save about 40 cents a gallon .

Here local fuel dealers 4*require 150g minimum for free delivery, off road dyed red means no tax.
I watch the fuel futures markets and when they bottom in late Jan or early Feb I top off my 240g tank. The dealer recommended a shop for the tank & I added a 12v fuel pump, particulate & water filters. I put it in a shed on a pallet so it's portable.
The tax and market savings averages $1-1.50 gal.

.

4*like I said I can get 25 gal. and no delivery charge,but the way I set up and operate my set up I aways ger 55 gallon at a time.

 

[WH401]

1*These cost as much or more than building your own better storage rig.


1*I find 5 gallon cans anything but easy.


2*Something like this?
3*Diesel trucks go through 30 gallon of diesel a lot faster than tractors do.
4*I would heat the house and run the tractor all from the same tank.

1* I find them simple, and they get the job done. For the amount of fuel I use per month I can't justify spending money on a stand lone fuel system yet when it could be better spent else where. Until that time comes I'll keep using my cans.

2* No, not that involved. A 30 gallon drum on a pallet that is the same size square as the drum so that it can be lifted in and out of the back of the truck, with either an electric or manual pump mount to one of the bungs on the drum.

3* Obviously, but 30 gallons of diesel will take me a couple of month's to use in a tractor, where 250 gallons of diesel would take me a couple years. In that couple of months the likeliness of the 30 gallons getting infected is minuscule, compared to the 250 gallons over a number of years.

 

[jenkinsph]

Uncle Wayne,

I am betting your new tractor will burn less gallons per year than your older gas tractor. I find fuel for my 110tlb and 4520 to be a mnor issue, I would go with the 5 gallon cans first and then decide what you wan't to do.


Steve

 

[LBrown59]

1* I find them simple, and they get the job done. For the amount of fuel I use per month I can't justify spending money on a stand lone fuel system yet when it could be better spent else where. Until that time comes I'll keep using my cans.
2* No, not that involved. A 30 gallon drum on a pallet that is the same size square as the drum so that it can be lifted in and out of the back of the truck, with either an electric or manual pump mounted to one of the bungs on the drum.

3* Obviously, but 30 gallons of diesel will take me a couple of month's to use in a tractor, where 250 gallons of diesel would take me a couple years. In that couple of months the likeliness of the 30 gallons getting infected is minuscule, compared to the 250 gallons over a number of years.

1*At 40 cents less per gallon on the fuel and saving the cost of driving after the fuel it don't take long for a rig to pay for itself.
2*This one has the 12 V pump mounted on a shelf but it could have been mounted to the drum bung instead.
If you have a pump / You don't need To lift the drum.
3*Takes me about 2.5 to 3 months to us 30 gallons.

 

[WH401]

1*At 40 cents less per gallon on the fuel and saving the cost of driving after the fuel it don't take long for a rig to pay for itself.
2*This one has the 12 V pump mounted on a shelf but it could have been mounted to the drum bung instead.
If you have a pump / You don't need To lift the drum.
3*Takes me about 2.5 to 3 months to us 30 gallons.

1* That's if you have it delivered, and most places require a certain minimum number of gallons to be purchased for them to even deliver. It's easier to just buy it at the pump, I don't have a fleet to fill.

2* So I've seen, but it's easier to deal with one drum instead of two. Put it in the back of the truck, go to the station, fill it, go home, take it out of the truck, and put in on the floor, done.

3* From May to September I use about 50 gallons of diesel cutting the grass.

 

[Uncle Wayne]

Uncle Wayne,

I am betting your new tractor will burn less gallons per year than your older gas tractor. I find fuel for my 110tlb and 4520 to be a mnor issue, I would go with the 5 gallon cans first and then decide what you wan't to do.


Steve

I called around all my local hardware stores and the big guys such as Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot and the Farmer Co-Ops in the area pricing 5 gallon diesel fuel cans. The price ranged from $11 to $25. I found that the local Grainger had the same can for $6.26 each. If you need a spare or another fuel can, that's a deal. Grainger # 3AA14.