rear mounted disc mower/conditioners

[jimg]

Has anyone actually seen one of these? I know several European based companies make them which are advertised for the NA market. I also believe they've been used for some time in Europe (ie a well know technology). However, Ive never seen one. To me they're fairly appealing in several ways...easier to maneuver esp in tighter areas, lighter, I think they probably require less hp.

 

[rrch129]

As in a 3 point mount? I dont see the appeal. A pull behind discbine is a lot easier to hook up and in my opinion the 3 point model isnt going to be any lighter than a regular 3 point disc mower it will be heaiver and will require more horse power as the conditioning element will need to be powered too.

 

[farmerjim]

jimg i was looking into these as well as mentioned b4 they're a bit heavy and you need a large tractor to off set the weight issue or have some suitcase weights or a loader on to balance the load on the back, hence the reason you seem them used on the big mfwd cab tractors, although the smaller 7-8 ft models may be a bit lighter. i have seen them in action at empire farm days in ny and they do cut/ condition well, and you can run them pretty fast, faster than i would ever dream about cutting, and they def seem to be more managable in tight areas. price wise i believe they're about the same as a trailed model. i really like the pottinger novacats as they have a conditioner set up that allows you to remove the conditioner when its not needed and allows it to be used as a standard disc mower. i believe they require about the same hp as a traditional disc moco, at least in the model i was looking at.

 

[jimg]

IIRC looking at the specs the rear mounts are lighter than comparably sized trailed units. Could be wrong but thats the impression I got. It seems correct too since the trailed units have tongues/sheet metal vs no tongue and canvas.
BTW Im looking that the smaller units. Seemed a waste of $$ to get anything larger than 8' as I can mow as fast as the field allows. My fields aren't that big and my pasture is very small.

Also did some research after posting and it looks like nearly all the euro mfg have an offering for the NA market. That said some dont import them....like Tonutti. However, my local dealer sells Fella and their setup is pretty interesting. The mower and conditioner are purchased separately. The conditioner can be 'bolted' on/off as you want. All others are factory installed. Also Fella gives the choice of flail or roller conditioners. In my book Fella wins as I can buy a good used mower and add a new conditioner when I can. In particular Im looking at the SM210FL unit which is roughly 7' working width and weighs 1200#.

farmerjim: I know my dealer has sold some in this area but most just dont condition. Ill have to look at the Pottinger, the name isn;t familiar to me. It sounds very similar to the Fella.

 

[slowzuki]

I just bought novacat last week a ten foot model. It is a heavy unit and needs about 9000 lb to hang it on. It was cheaper than a trailed model but needs more tractor to run it.

 

[slowzuki]

Just a follow up as I posted that from an ipod. The 10 ft Novacat with steel flail conditioner is about 1150 kg or so. It is close to the tractor so you don't need much for front weight but you need a heavy tractor because it hangs about 600 kg of mower 5 feet out from your tire.

It was on a JD6210 or something like that when we looked at it and was quite a load when it was picked up for a headland turn. The 7 foot models are about half as heavy, use plastic flails and don't stick out so far. I would have bought a 7 fter if it had been available.

 

[jimg]

Pottinger seems not to have a market this far S. At any rate my local dealer sells the rear mount (3pt) Fella which can be had in heavy & light duty. The former are as you'd suspect...heavily built. I don't have the spec here but the smallest of that line weighs in at about 1300# and the conditioner adds another 400-500#. The light duty line maxes out at about 900# but can't be fitted w/ a conditioner. I think they also aren't able to cut negative angles (the heavy line can cut up to -30deg). If I was certain I could make good hay w/o a conditioner Id grab a disc mower for sure but right now Im not convinced I could. Also I seems that 3pt disc mowers aren't built to had adjustable cut height. I like to cut between 3-4".

 

[chh]

jimg All you need to do on a 3pt disc mower to adjust the cut height is adjust the top link. Turned in far enough and it will literally cut into the dirt and turned back you can cut pretty high. I cut with mine nearly level, about 3" stubble.

 

[jimg]

chh: Thanx...it wasnt immediately obvious how it worked. I wasnt sure if the 3pt lift w/ shoe adjustment would be used or something else. Do you know how much adjustment range there is? From your reply it goes from some negative setting (in the dirt) to +x" cut. At any rate the shoes must run over the ground...the bar cant be suspended in air.

 

[ddivinia]

chh: Thanx...it wasnt immediately obvious how it worked. I wasnt sure if the 3pt lift w/ shoe adjustment would be used or something else. Do you know how much adjustment range there is? From your reply it goes from some negative setting (in the dirt) to +x" cut. At any rate the shoes must run over the ground...the bar cant be suspended in air.

Can you pick up the bar some with hydraulics. You may not want it to float per se (depending upon conditions).

That top link adjustment is very important. It can make the difference between broken windows in your cab or not. I was running mine too low.

D.

 

[jimg]

Honestly I don't understand how they adjust which is why I asked. I wasn't sure if the bar was allowed (or rather would tolerate being floated) to float.

 

[ddivinia]

Honestly I don't understand how they adjust which is why I asked. I wasn't sure if the bar was allowed (or rather would tolerate being floated) to float.

I hear ya - I bought one last year and learned the hard way.

First thing is - the top link adjust the cutting height within reason. I had mine too low and it was kicking up rocks. I broke a couple windows in my cab, so now I but a little higher. It does not not take much of an adjustment to make a huge difference.

Some people say let the cutter float, but my experience has been that is it good to barely pick up the end of the cutter (with the hydraulics). I like to see the end of the cutter kinda bouncing out there. The skids are touching the ground, but the full weight of the mower is not on them.

My experience has been if you don't pick the end of the mower up some it will dig in at times I have never had it break away or anything). The mower also is less likely to plug up between the hats and stripe. What happens is the area between the blade gear boxes gets crap (read johnson grass, mud, ant mound, etc) in there and the grass isn't allow to get in there to get cut. So, there are stripes left in the pasture of missed grass.

Plugging is worse when the grass is damp, but with enough down pressure on the cutting bar you can make it plug a lot more.

Clear as mud?

D.

 

[jimg]

I see...breaking windows wouldn't be a problem in my case. I have no cab.

If you run the outer shoe on the ground would that leave a streak of matted grass that the mower would miss? Speaking of lodged/matted grass does you mower create enough suction to lift it (and so make an even cut)? Also whats your mow height?

Plugging????? I was lead to believe disc mowers don't plug. I have plenty of experience w/ plugs and would like to make that a thing of the past as soon as possible.

 

[chh]

Well, many people say they can't be plugged and as far as totally plugging one, well I have never seen it. You can under certain conditions though can get a pretty good wad in one. The only kind I have ever gotten is on very heavy, tall, usually wet johnson or rye grass. Usually it is just a wad on the gearbox end and most of the time about 10 feet in reverse with the mower running will throw it out. I run mine in the float position on 1 tractor and the other does not have float. There are springs that you can adjust to make the bar lighter or heavier on the ground. The shoes do drag. but unless you have it on mud or run over a gopher/ant mound you won't see any type of marks. I looked on my Krone manual and brochure and they do not list a cutting height range. My guess is that you could probably get it as high as 6", but 2" to 4" is more likely the practical choice. Running it too low will also wear blades at a fairly rapid rate(even if you don't have rocks to throw).

Looking at the brochure I had on the manual's package, Krone makes what you originally asked about. They are don't list a weight in the brochure, but they require 80 to 90 hp for their models.

 

[chh]

Here is a link to the Krone website. I could not get the link direct to the mowers to work right, so look in products and then the Easy Cut line if mowers.

Home

Personally I really would not run anything but a disc mower. I have had experience with several brands and they are hard to beat. I currently run 2 Krone AM 283 S mowers and really like them. Kuhn/JD or Fella are both really good mowers. The MF line(formerly New Idea) is pretty good. I do not care for the Rhino brand at all though. My experience is all with just disc mowers though, I have never used any type of moco. Any type of plug or dragging a wad of hay is a really rare event for me. I have never had to take and cut one out with a knife.

 

[ddivinia]

I see...breaking windows wouldn't be a problem in my case. I have no cab.

If you run the outer shoe on the ground would that leave a streak of matted grass that the mower would miss? Speaking of lodged/matted grass does you mower create enough suction to lift it (and so make an even cut)? Also whats your mow height?

Plugging????? I was lead to believe disc mowers don't plug. I have plenty of experience w/ plugs and would like to make that a thing of the past as soon as possible.

Outer shoe is on the ground, but we call it "dancing the end of the mower".

Yeah - you can plug them. Wet is the the worse.

D.

 

[ddivinia]

Here is a link to the Krone website. I could not get the link direct to the mowers to work right, so look in products and then the Easy Cut line if mowers.

Home

Personally I really would not run anything but a disc mower. I have had experience with several brands and they are hard to beat. I currently run 2 Krone AM 283 S mowers and really like them. Kuhn/JD or Fella are both really good mowers. The MF line(formerly New Idea) is pretty good. I do not care for the Rhino brand at all though. My experience is all with just disc mowers though, I have never used any type of moco. Any type of plug or dragging a wad of hay is a really rare event for me. I have never had to take and cut one out with a knife.

I run a Krone also.

Plug is usually wet johnsone grass or a really big ant mound.

D.

 

[jimg]

Very helpful, thanx

 

[ddivinia]

You can bet on some trial and error.

I suspect it will also act differently in a caddy vs. on the 3 point.

I have a Kelly:

Disc Mower Caddy

I see that Frontier has one now also:

FRONTIER EQUIPMENT INTRODUCES NEW DC1000 DISC MOWER CADDY

D.

 

[jimg]

Glad you brought this up. I thought the caddy was used for transport -- I see I was wrong. I would be interested to hear your take on the advantages of using a caddy. Those given on the Kelly site didn't make that much sense to me.