Tires Why not fill front tires?

[RobJ]

I have the fronts filled on my TC18. Filling added around 33lbs. to each tire. That is not much but it did make a noticeable difference. I think a loader would cause more stress on the front end than 66lbs. would.

You and IslandTractor are correct. If art is really a dealer then he knows that the most common problem for replacing ball joints are:

1) lack of grease, torn seal
2) hit the tie rod and the stealer suggests replacing the ball joints to.
3) someone who doesn't know how to remove a ball joint and uses a hammer and mushrooms the threads.

Yeah Solo, running adound with a loader full of dirt or rock all day doesn't hurt anything.

 

[IslandTractor]

You and IslandTractor are correct. If art is really a dealer then he knows that the most common problem for replacing ball joints are:

1) lack of grease, torn seal
2) hit the tie rod and the stealer suggests replacing the ball joints to.
3) someone who doesn't know how to remove a ball joint and uses a hammer and mushrooms the threads.

Yeah Solo, running adound with a loader full of dirt or rock all day doesn't hurt anything.

Art is a dealer and presumably a good one as he's been in business for a long time. I think he may be biased against loading front tires and would love to understand why. I can imagine that perhaps in the days when two wheel drive tractors had significantly less sturdy front suspensions/axles and rarely had loaders that he saw slightly increased maintenance on very high hour tractors that he associated with loaded fronts. I cannot imagine that he is seeing that sort of problem in recent years (though he may always talk his customers out of loading fronts). I don't see any posts about worn out ball joints on the Kubota forum either. You'd imagine that it would show up first in the lighter weight tractors like the B series where loaded fronts would be a larger percentage of the weight/strain on the front suspension but I don't see any evidence of that in TBN posts.

 

[dynasim]

Just remember that weight on the front axle doesn't do anything for tipping resistance in most circumstances. The front axle pivots, and therefore doesn't add to stability, unless you are already off the reservation, by which time it is likely it is to late.

Chris

 

[Gary Fowler]

I am glad to see a few guys out there that agrees with me that loading the fronts add a little weight, increase traction a bit, doesnt hurt the tractor (I sure would like to know why Kubota says NO), improves performance at least marginally and doesnt significantly increase the sink factor in wet ground. The only down side that I can think of would be handling the tire with water in it in case you had a flat. With my high lug R1 tires, I would have to run over a stake to cause a flat and if that happened it would be a new tire, not a flat. I have ran over huge thorn limbs and never had a flat with my R1's, but my BIL has had serveral on his TURF tires and never gotten out of the front yard.
I just cant believe that adding less than 50 lbs of water to a front tire is more damaging than hanging 250 of suitcase weights on the front. My take on that is that Kubota and its dealers would much rather you spend big $$$ on extra weights than have you get a little more control for virtually nothing. If their tractors are built that close to design limits on axel and steering joint components, then I dont think I would want one of them.
This will probably get a rise out of the Orange crowd.

 

[irvingj]

I am aslo considering filing the fronts on my GC2310- when snowblowing (front-mounted blower) uphill on my driveway, the tractor becomes VERY light in the front, to the point that steering becomes an exercise in futility and the tractor simply follows the slope of the crown....

But with the storm that's due to arrive tomorrow night, I think I'll try an experiment- remove the backhoe bucket only, which is the chunk of steel furthest to the rear. The backhoe helps considerably with traction so I'm reluctant to remove it, but perhaps removing just the bucket won't hinder rear traction but add a bit of weight shift to the front... Sound like a plan?

 

[irvingj]

OK-- bucket's off; it weighs just under 60 pounds, which sits with its CG about 5 feet behind the rear wheels.

Guess I'll have a chance to try it out tomorrow.... total snowfall has been upgraded from 1-3" Sunday to 3-6" yesterday, to 6-10" this morning, and to 8-14" this evening. Guess it shifted north from original estimates!

Sounds like Bostonrats is in for some ice, though....

 

[RobJ]

OK-- bucket's off; it weighs just under 60 pounds, which sits with its CG about 5 feet behind the rear wheels.

Guess I'll have a chance to try it out tomorrow.... total snowfall has been upgraded from 1-3" Sunday to 3-6" yesterday, to 6-10" this morning, and to 8-14" this evening. Guess it shifted north from original estimates!

Sounds like Bostonrats is in for some ice, though....

With the small wheels in your tractor I probably wouldn't bother filling with water or like. Looks like it can't be more than a couple gallons per tire. If you filled them with foam then you wouldn't have to worry about anymore flats.

 

[irvingj]

Tested with bucket off, though the snow was so dense it's hard to tell if it made any difference- tended to pull the tractor around some. The 14" or so of snow we had actually slowed the blower & tractor down as much or more than the 4" of really wet slush we had earlier this year; really heavy stuff! Took a lot longer to do the job than it ever has before.

Sounds like we're in for it again next Mon-Tues, so I'll have another chance to try it out.... still, I'm glad I'm not still trying to do it all with my ol' Toro 8HP walk-behind!

 

[IslandTractor]

Sounds like we're in for it again next Mon-Tues, so I'll have another chance to try it out.... still, I'm glad I'm not still trying to do it all with my ol' Toro 8HP walk-behind!

I'll be thinking of you while I am slogging around with my 7.75hp Craftsman walk-behind.

 

[600rider]

I had a 1986 ford 1310 4wd 19 hp tractor with the 12 x 4 syncromesh transmission I bought used in 1987. I had all 4 tires loaded for about 13 of the 16 years I owned it I decided to unload the tires and use front and rear weights as needed instead because I didn't need or want the weight when I mowed the yard. I would frequently drive the tractor to town to do work at our church or a friends house. It was 1.25 miles at the most. ground speed was 14 mph on a paved road. The front end would jerk back and forth so violently I would have to stop the tractor for a few seconds then go on. While the loaded tires did add traction I think they must have had uneven amounts of fluid in them and the centrifigal forces would react adversly on them to the point of almost lossing control of the tractor. I did not experiance this on dirt. The only problem I had with the front end was an axle seal went bad but I atribute that to running tire chains on the front which I will not ever do again( I have seen this topic in other threads). My currant tractor is a Kubota B7510 HST the tires are not loaded but I do have home made rear wheel weights and front suitcase weights that I use as needed. I do not mow with them as I have mostly clay soil and the extra weight on the tractor in the wet spring leaves ruts in the yard. So what I am saying is the only time I had a problem was when taking it down the paved road at top speed it was a safety concern.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

So what I am saying is the only time I had a problem was when taking it down the paved road at top speed it was a safety concern.

I know that we are talking apples and oranges here, with most of the tractors being smaller. (although I don't know why it would make any difference) But just to let everybody know that having all 4 tires filled is not always a problem, I have all of mine filled 75% (just over the rims) and I travel at 20mph with no problems on my 7520. That is 12000lbs going down the road.

 

[irvingj]

OK, finally some hard data: Using an electronic commercial scale, down-presssure/weight of the snowblower, in "float" position, WITHOUT the backhoe bucket mounted, 158 lbs.

Re-installing the backhoe bucket reduced the reading on the scale to 142+/- lbs, about 15 lbs added weight to the front due to removal of the bucket. A help, but not very much....

Guess it's time to re-visit front tire fill, or just deal with the light steering when going uphill. (I currently make one pass up, then do all others downhill.)

 

[EddieWalker]

When talking about increased wear from the loaded fron tires, I'm assuming it's from the weight of the tire, not the type of material used to load them Water for weight or foam to make them solid.

It makes sense and I would agree that the bearings and ball joints would wear faster because of the increased mass that is being moved when the tires turn. I can see this in a theoreticaly discussion.

What I wonder is how long that increase in wear will take to become noticable? My guess is at ten thousand hours, you still wont notice it. It might be there, but so many other things will have worn out before then, that I believe it's a moot point. How many tires will you wear out first before the joints wear out? A dozen? Two dozen?

The real question that you need to ask yourself is if never getting another flat tire is more important then haveing a worn out bearing 1,000 hours sooner then you would anyway? If you are even alive when teh bearings wear out, or still have that tractor.

Eddie

 

[SPYDERLK]

When talking about increased wear from the loaded fron tires, I'm assuming it's from the weight of the tire, not the type of material used to load them Water for weight or foam to make them solid.

What I wonder is how long that increase in wear will take to become noticable? My guess is at ten thousand hours, you still wont notice it. It might be there, but so many other things will have worn out before then, that I believe it's a moot point. How many tires will you wear out first before the joints wear out? A dozen? Two dozen?

The real question that you need to ask yourself is if never getting another flat tire is more important then haveing a worn out bearing 1,000 hours sooner then you would anyway? If you are even alive when teh bearings wear out, or still have that tractor.

Eddie

Yup...

 

[slaveToHorses]

My JD dealer filled all 4 of my R4s when I took delivery of my 3720. He highly recommended it and I have been really pleased with the performance. I would do it again for certain.
At the time, I asked about wear. He just shook his head and laughed. He said they have seen no correlation at all. The service manager independently agreed. I have dealt with them for a long time and there have been times when they have steered me one way or the other for reliability issues, so I have no reason to suspect alterior motives...

 

[IslandTractor]

So far, the only dealer who has warned against loading front wheels, is Art. He is I believe a well established Kubota dealer in upstate NY but he has not bothered to clarify or defend his initial post. The preponderance of evidence and opinion seems to debunk the notion that any serious extra wear will occur with loaded front tires.

 

[dex3361]

I have owned several 2wd tractors and had the front wheels filled with fluid on these machines. It helped on the front end being light. I had no problems with the 2wd machine and none had a FEL. I recently purchased a 4wd L4400 Kubota HST with FEL and the dealer recommended that I should not fill the front tires. I listened to his advice and read the owner’s manual and it recommended that you do not fill the front tires with fluid. The manual explains that the fluid does not allow the tires to cushion the front end load. The weight includes the loaded front bucket and FEL which I could see having a huge impact load on the front end components. The tires are designed to be a dampener for the shock loads imposed by the combined weight of the tractor FEL, bucket and whatever you are carrying in the bucket.

 

[3RRL]

I had my fronts on my 55hp Kama filled to the top of the rims.
Those R-1's are 8.3 x 20 and hold about 13-14 gallons each. I just bought new tires for the fronts and changed out the old, but I didn't fill the new ones yet. In grading my dirt drive, going up some of the steeper grades with a loaded 7' boxblade full, I could really tell the traction difference. It was quite noticeable that the new tires (same R-1's) were slipping more than before. I'll be loading them again this weekend.

 

[DanD78]

I stopped by the grain elevator to weigh my 3320.
No cab, front and rear filled to the valve stem with Rim Guard, 300 CX loader with heavy 5' bucket
no wheel or frame weights and me off the tractor.
Nothing on the 3 point.

Rear tires 43x16-20
Front tires 27x8.5-15

Total 4980
Rear axle 2300
Front axle 2680

I estimate I put around 35~40 gallons in each rear and 10 in each front. I can tell it helped when using a truck blade on my loader arms. You can't put weights on the front of this tractor and still use the loader because they share the same bracket. I also think weight rolling on the ground is better than having it hanging on the frame. I didn't do any weights before adding the Rim Guard but you cound do the math at around 10lb per gallon and come pretty close.

I hope this helps someone

Dan

 

[RobJ]

The manual explains that the fluid does not allow the tires to cushion the front end load. The weight includes the loaded front bucket and FEL which I could see having a huge impact load on the front end components. The tires are designed to be a dampener for the shock loads imposed by the combined weight of the tractor FEL, bucket and whatever you are carrying in the bucket.

This makes sense to me.