Am I wrong?

[LeadPoison]

We contracted someome to do some dozer work on our land a while back. Two relatives and myself walked the property with the guy and showed him what we wanted done. We asked for an estimate of time as we had a budget. I got a bill for 2.5X the verbal estimate. I was never made aware it was taking longer. Just a final bill. He expects to be paid despite my sentiments. Not only that, it just wasn't that much work. Both of my relatives who were with me owned a dozer at one time and the other project manages heavy machinery on a daily basis. They were in awe that it took that long according to him. I don't feel obligated to pay the guy for the extra work. I am in the construction industry and if I give someone an estimate to fix something and it takes more labor than I estimated, I eat the difference. Am I wrong?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Ask him to explain why it took so much longer to do the job then what he originally figured. If his explanation makes sense and you can see how it wasn't something easily forseen at the time of the estimate then hopefully you two can work something out.

Did you have any signed contracts? If so did they cover this situation?

 

[kebo]

At the very least, the dozer operator should have gotten in touch with you beforehand and discussed the "extra time" issue, once he realized it as was going to take longer. As far as we whether or not you should pay, my first thought is, "no, don't pay him". But, I haven't heard his side of it either. Maybe his dozer is smaller than he led you to believe, thus taking much longer to do the same work? Maybe there were some legitimate reasons that he could not have foreseen??? I don't know. Hope you can work it out with him though.

 

[LeadPoison]

There are no signed contracts. I have friends who have used him many times before. His reason is that it just took longer. Until this year they haven't had any issues. They got a very high bill as well and they just sucked it up. I am not. He just flat underestimated. His dozer is a good size. I beleive it's a 550 with 10' six way blade.

 

[Tig]

Did you get any other estimates to compare it to? If I choose one bidder over another based on price and he goes way over, then I am not initially very sympathetic.
Seems that a compromise of some sort may be in order.

 

[J_J]

I think that if you have two other people that heard the given estimate, then if he did what you wanted, that should be it, but if he did more than you wanted, then the fault is his. A smaller dozer has nothing to do with the given estimate. If the contractor knew he was running over his stated estimate, then he should have stopped his work and discussed new terms. Does he have any other witness on his side?

 

[LeadPoison]

It wan't a 550. It was a 650. He has no other witnesses. He performed what we asked for the most part. I can't complain. I don't dislike the guy or have any other issues with him. He just doesn't see our side. I paid him the estimate amount and he feels I still owe him $2000.

 

[Bird]

if I give someone an estimate to fix something and it takes more labor than I estimated, I eat the difference. Am I wrong?

I know they call it an "estimate" so it can vary. In the auto repair business in Dallas (and some other cities) a garage is supposed to provide a written estimate and than can go no higher than 15% over the estimate without prior approval.

But I'm like you. I've given lots of people "estimates" to do jobs, but I never went a nickel over the estimate, even if I lost money. I might come in under the estimate but never over. I guess I just wasn't a very shart businessman.

 

[J_J]

It wan't a 550. It was a 650. He has no other witnesses. He performed what we asked for the most part. I can't complain. I don't dislike the guy or have any other issues with him. He just doesn't see our side. I paid him the estimate amount and he feels I still owe him $2000.

Was that estimate based on money and time, or just time only. Did you ever state any kind of money limit. If his time estimate was off, the money will add up. If you guys want to stay friends, have a mediator listen to your case, and that will probable save court cost if it comes to that. I think the difference is more than a small claims court will handle, but I am not sure.

 

[rox]

I think you and he have a difference of opinion on the word "estimate" Was it an estimate or did he agree to do the job for a set price? If the bill would have come in lower would you have still paid him the greater estimated price? Although I agree with you that x2.5 is excessive.

 

[streamin]

I think he was in the wrong for not stopping and talking to you first. I think the mediator is a good idea..

 

[George2615]

Just another example of why you need to get it in writing. Whether its an estimate or a total price for the job. Like the others have said, once he met the price / time frame of your estimate he should have contacted you as to whether to continue and at what cost to you. There are some contractors who underestimate and just keep going till done then hand what the customer feels is an overpriced bill. As a contractor he knows his agreement with the customer should be in writing. Maybe he wants to hide it and not claim it as income by not putting it in writing.

I can see your point but without hearing his side or what the initial conversation contained its hard to respond.
You can say you only agreed to the estimate price and if he's not willing to renegotiate you can call the Better Business Bureau.
Maybe he didn't write it so he didn't have to claim it as income. If that's the case he won't want you notifying the BBB.

 

[LeadPoison]

I was also charged 8.5% tax. I was a little shocked on that one as well. If he is trying to hide the income I don't think he would charge tax. Has anyone ever been charged tax for tractor/dozer work?

By the way he says he is going to sue and put a lein on the place. I would rather do some type of arbitration through the BBB for sure. I am sticking to my gut on this one and I am willing to go the extra mile.

 

[Willl]

I am not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one but I think I pinpointed your problem.

verbal estimate

 

[LeadPoison]

True. I do have 3 witnesses versus his 1. A verbal contract is legally binding, but a written contract is definitely the way to go.

 

[J_J]

As long as your witness can write down what was said or testify on your behalf, I don,t think you have anything to worry about. No lawyer is going to take his case, because he doesn't have a case. Write him a check for the agreed upon amount and write on it paid in full. If he accepts it, then I believe the case is closed. Maybe some lawyer will chime in here and correct us if we are wrong.

Trying calling your state attorneys office and get some advice. Tell them you think you are being scammed, and you believe he has done it before. Maybe the IRS will want to know some details about his business practices, and whether he is going by the rules. Offer your check to him with several witness around and note his response. Video this if possible.

 

[Willl]

Write him a check for the agreed upon amount and write on it paid in full.

I paid him the estimate amount

C'mon JJ, keep up.

 

[PILOON]

I would have given him the estimated price + 10% plus the tax with the tax showed as such.

Had a nursery landscaper try that on me once.
Said it was X$ per paver and the area was clear cut square area.
He demanded over twice his estimate, I laughed to his face paid him the estimate + 10% and told him to sue me.
Told him no judge would back him as he had been in business for 30 years and knew what he was doing.
Simple maths in that case.
Never heard back. Some will always try!

 

[john_bud]

I bet the guy has outstanding bills and is using you as his sugar daddy.

jb

 

[LeadPoison]

Put it this way... I know he was out for about 3-5 weeks during the summer due to dozer mantainence and health issues.