rules prohibiting political discussions

[ray66v]

At the risk of being drawn, and quartered:

Understanding the basic concept that this is a tractor forum, and that there are other venues for this type of discussion, I still can't help wondering why politics is such a taboo subject.

While I often appreciate the moderators being somewhat forgiving, when a discussion edges sometimes over this line. I have followed several very civil, and interesting discussions that were cut off in the prime of their lives, due to this rule, sometimes by one, or two posters.

If the main reason for this is rule is due to the tendency for the discussions to get ugly, then perhaps their should also be limits on other things, like mig vs, stick, (also not exactly tractor related), which has certainly seen more than it's share of animosity.

I am wondering if other members would join me in appealing to the TBN hierarchy for more latitude in this area.

Politics is a very hot topic right now, and certainly, people are interested, and concerned, right now. This is unquestionably an important subject.

May I suggest, perhaps the discussions would not be ended, provided ideas are being exchanged, and the discussions remain civil. Were mostly adults here, and can benefit in the exchange of these ideas, just as well as any others.

I am sure some will be adamantly opposed to this idea, there are always other threads to go to if the discussion is not to your liking, just as we do now.

 

[kenmac]

At the risk of being drawn, and quartered:


If the main reason for this is rule is due to the tendency for the discussions to get ugly, then perhaps their should also be limits on other things, like mig vs, stick, (also not exactly tractor related), which has certainly seen more than it's share of animosity.

I didn't know things got canned because they weren't tractor related. There are alot of discussions that aren't tractor related... If the site only allowed tractor discussions. I think there would be very few dicussions on here. You can only discuss tractors so much

 

[greenmule]

Political decussions are not relevant anymores,they are all the same,none of them have any sense,and voting is a waste of time.[hows that?]

 

[Scooby074]

Im all for a Off Topic type area. We're all adults here and hopefully can have discussions on politics and other things that are of concern besides tractors.

Maybe have it in an area where you have to be 18+? Im not opposed to some moderation to keep things civil. Nobody could force someone to go to an off topic area if they didnt want to. I think its something that we should try.

 

[tractordriver]

+1 on op topic

 

[sandman2234]

I didn't know things got canned because they weren't tractor related. There are alot of discussions that aren't tractor related... If the site only allowed tractor discussions. I think there would be very few dicussions on here. You can only discuss tractors so much

After discussing tractors gets tiring, you start talking about implements, and then projects done with them, and then what you need to fix what you broke, and last, what you can buy next with the CHECKS from our new preziden.
David from jax

 

[EddieWalker]

It's not just politics that's off limits, but a variety of topics that are impossible to discuss. Politics just stands out as the most common of them because it's probably the one that comes up the most often.

It is very rare, almost impossible, to change a persons mind about their political view. One persons facts are another persons lies. If you are right and I am wrong, then I don't like you for telling me this and I will resent you for doing so. It will only get worse from there.

One of the reasons TBN is such a great place is because we all get along. From time to time a discussion might get carried away, but it rarely crosses a line that is common in forums that allow politics to be discussed. If we both espress our views and we both feel strongly that we are right with the other being wrong, what comes next? Maybe we can remain civil, but in an open forum, you cannot garantee that everybody else will.

It's just a matter of time unitl name calling and insults take over. The less a person knows and the dumber he/she is, the more they will depend on insults and name calling to make their point. It's like yelling louder to make your point.

Im' not refering to anybody here, and just using the terms of others to illustrate my point. I don't know who disagrees with me here on politics or religion or anything else, and really don't care to find out. All I care about is how to work the land, move dirt, take out trees and enjoy living out in the country.

Eddie

 

[CurlyDave]

There are lots of forums for political discussions.

Anyone can join & post at many of them.

I am very opinionated on politics (Atilla the Hun wing of the Libertarian Party), and I read a lot of political forums.

I really enjoy TBN because it is a bunch of guys and a few gals who like to live in the country, build things, drive machines and can get along without politics.

We don't need to screw that up.

 

[ToadHill]

We try to keep discussions civil. Politics has a way of bringing out the beast in people. Most of us on this forum respect each other even if we've never met, not many here show much respect for politicians. As Harry Truman said when he was asked why he became a politician, " I had the choice of playing piano in a house of ill repute or becoming a politician, and frankly I don't see the difference."

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

For me, there's a lot of irony in you bringing up this thread. I love to debate politics. As of late, I feel like I'm alone in my thoughts and have really wanted to try and bring some issues up, here, to discuss. Most of us are independent/self-reliant, free thinking, hard working, etc., here. So I thought I might find some like minded folks.

However, I really like being able to come here- not knowing what anyone's political beliefs are- and talking tractors, welders, plowing, apples, implements, ATV's and just anything related to country living. I know people would look at each other a little differently after a heated political debate. Like Eddie said, people aren't going to change each other's minds......typically, on internet political debate, it boils down to splitting hairs, spelling and grammatical nazis and some that just like to stir the pot.

I'd sure hate to be the moderator that had to look over the forum on politics.

 

[srjones]

I have to agree that's better to leave politics out of the discussion.

 

[California]

... I have followed several very civil, and interesting discussions that were cut off in the prime of their lives, due to this rule, sometimes by one, or two posters.

I am wondering if other members would join me in appealing to the TBN hierarchy for more latitude in this area.

Politics is a very hot topic right now, and certainly, people are interested, and concerned, right now. This is unquestionably an important subject.

May I suggest, perhaps the discussions would not be ended, provided ideas are being exchanged, and the discussions remain civil. Were mostly adults here, and can benefit in the exchange of these ideas, just as well as any others.

I will agree with the proprietors that politics should remain off limits. We have all seen how divisive political discussions can become.

But I am guessing that your post was caused by the abrupt end today of the thread titled 'Depression'. That had been, in my opinion, a collection of forecasts on where the economy is going, and had avoided labelling specific political parties as responsible for economic realities that are impossible to miss. OK so far.

I felt it was a mistake to abort that thread the moment someone interjected a political comment. Better, in my opinion, would be a moderator post requesting that politics not be brought into the discussion. (And if necessary, removing posts, with a brief explanation, if the political poster refuses to follow the guidance.)

Some of these threads are valuable in sharing information from all parts of the country. One of the strengths of this board is the diversity of viewpoints. So long as we can all get along with one another I think discussions that drift into larger issues such as the economy, and its impact on individual members, are valuable to all of us. That thread that died today had 192 posts. Just before the final posts, was one noting 20,000 layoffs at Caterpillar and a comment that this appears to be a part of a global slowdown. To me that's a sharing of knowledge, not a political position. I was sorry to see that entire thread ended for a single follow-on comment that was unsuitable.

 

[ray66v]

I will agree with the proprietors that politics should remain off limits. We have all seen how divisive political discussions can become.

But I am guessing that your post was caused by the abrupt end today of the thread titled 'Depression'. That had been, in my opinion, a collection of forecasts on where the economy is going, and had avoided labelling specific political parties as responsible for economic realities that are impossible to miss. OK so far.

I felt it was a mistake to abort that thread the moment someone interjected a political comment. Better, in my opinion, would be a moderator post requesting that politics not be brought into the discussion. (And if necessary, removing posts, with a brief explanation, if the political poster refuses to follow the guidance.)

Some of these threads are valuable in sharing information from all parts of the country. One of the strengths of this board is the diversity of viewpoints. So long as we can all get along with one another I think discussions that drift into larger issues such as the economy, and its impact on individual members, are valuable to all of us. That thread that died today had 192 posts. Just before the final posts, was one noting 20,000 layoffs at Caterpillar and a comment that this appears to be a part of a global slowdown. To me that's a sharing of knowledge, not a political position. I was sorry to see that entire thread ended for a single follow-on comment that was unsuitable.

Yes, this was one of the threads I'm referring to.

I don't necessarily advocate threads debating all out political discussion, (although I also don't rule this out). The thought I had in my OP was that terminating an exchange of ideas like this, is a shame just because the discussion reaches a certain point, even if all parties are being civil.

I suggest that perhaps this type of shift in the discussion, should not necessarily be terminal.

I agree that most people have their political minds made up. But, I believe we could benefit from a better understanding of the opposition and the reasons for their position.

An example of this was a recent discussion involving unions. I believe there were a lot of good points made on both sides.

Finding common ground, through civil discussion, can at the very least, increase understanding of what is happening to the US.

If you not interested in political discussion, you could simply change threads. It does not have to mean the rest of us can't discuss it. If the thread was marked as political somehow, then you could simply avoid it all together.

The moderators could still pull the plug, as they do, when it becomes necessary, just not right as the discussion starts.

 

[Alan L.]

There are a couple of boards I frequent where we talk politics. Some I've been on for 10 years, and I have never changed anyone's mind about anything and nobody has changed, mine. Seems like its really debate, one tries to copy and paste the best article that supports their side. It has gone from cordial to downright nasty, then after so many years, you miss any of ones you argue the most with, if they leave the board (or get kicked off).

Probably not a good thing for this community.

 

[kenmac]

After discussing tractors gets tiring, you start talking about implements, and then projects done with them, and then what you need to fix what you broke, and last, what you can buy next with the CHECKS from our new preziden.
David from jax

Yes, but, talking about shavers, what type of truck to buy, circuit city, going out of bus,plumbing ,HVAC, etc,etc, isn't exactly talking about tractors or implements

 

[EddieWalker]

One of the strengths of this site is the variety of topics that are discussed here. While most of us found it for a tractor related reason, I'd assume that most stay around because of all the other things that are discussed on here that might or might not have anything to do with tractors. I have several tractors and an interest in other tractors, but there is a limit to how long that stays interesting. If mine are working and I don't need to buy anything for them, then there's a very limited amount of knowledge that I can share or even care to learn about everyone elses tractor. Your tractor might be the greatest thing on the planet, but I honestly don't care about it other then what you might do with it.

This to me is where TBN shines. The open discussion of what we do with our land and how we go about doing it. Building a house/barn on a piece of proparty or growing a garden is always new and interesting. Just about everything that happens on your land is interesting because I have land too, and either have or might some day to the same thing.

Limiting the topics to just tractors wold limit TBN to a very small site with a limited amount of information. As we've seen, the owners and moderators have hit a combination that works. Killing a thread that starts to go political or offensive early in it's tracks might offend a few people, but for the overall health of the site, it's proven to be very effective. I've had more then one thread deleted or closed. It happens and I've always known when I crossed the line. I'm not bothered by it happening and just hope that I got my point across to the person I was trying to insult before it was removed. LOL

Without naming names or websites, there was a group of people here who wanted to talk politics and not have any moderators. They started their own forum and did just that. I checked it out a few times, but found it to be a very unpleasant place to be. While they tried to have a variety of discussions, it was mostly a two sided political site. Unfortunately for me, I read too many of those posts and learned about a side to some of the posters here who used to enjoy reading their posts. Their pure outright hatred and ager was more then I can comprehend. In the course of a discussion, they would post attack after attack. When somebody challenged their attack, they would never reply to that challenge with facts or a rebuttal, but attack that person. It was sad to see what that people are really like. Kind of like finding out a friend of yours is really an animal abuser. If you never seen him beating that animal, you'd never have any problems with him, but the first time you saw him attack his pet, you will never be able to deal with him again.

Thankfully, the people that I'm refering to are no longer on here.

Eddie

 

[Bird]

I don't necessarily advocate threads debating all out political discussion, (although I also don't rule this out).

Therein lies the problem, Ray. At what point it should be cut off is a matter of opinion rather than clear cut fact, and opinions vary; always have, always will. So, yes, the rules are simple, the enforcement sometimes is not, since the moderators have to go by their own opinions, knowing that not everyone is going to agree. Are we always right? Of course not! We just have to do the best we can, and if the owner of TBN, or the other moderators, wish to overrule me on something I've done, it won't bother me a bit; won't cost me a nickel.

And if the owner of TBN wishes to change the rules, that's entirely up to him. But if you look at how successful TBN has been and how it's grown, the feller that makes the rules must be doing something right.

But there's nothing wrong with you, or anyone else, suggesting any changes you think will make TBN a better website.

 

[Bird]

Eddie, looks like you and I were typing at the same time. And you mention being moderated yourself; you know I have been, too, and needed to be.

 

[ray66v]

Therein lies the problem, Ray. At what point it should be cut off is a matter of opinion rather than clear cut fact, and opinions vary; always have, always will. So, yes, the rules are simple, the enforcement sometimes is not, since the moderators have to go by their own opinions, knowing that not everyone is going to agree. Are we always right? Of course not! We just have to do the best we can, and if the owner of TBN, or the other moderators, wish to overrule me on something I've done, it won't bother me a bit; won't cost me a nickel.

And if the owner of TBN wishes to change the rules, that's entirely up to him. But if you look at how successful TBN has been and how it's grown, the feller that makes the rules must be doing something right.

But there's nothing wrong with you, or anyone else, suggesting any changes you think will make TBN a better website.

Thank you for weighing in Bird.

I realize the position being a moderator sometimes puts you in, and have always considered you to be fair in applying the rules as they are currently written.

With all that is happening, and so many discussions edging on being technically political, several threads have been closed because of politics, this would suggest that members do, from time to time, wish to at the least, discuss "fringe" topics.

This does not mean I am suggesting threads be started like Bush vs. Obama on TBN.

What I am suggesting here, is if a discussion about cars turns into a discussion about a free trade agreement, that perhaps it be allowed to continue. And then perhaps it can be flagged as having this limited political content, for those who do not wish engage in it.

With things that people have strong opinions on regularly discussed here, I'd like to see a thread that is popular, and civil, be allowed more latitude. And I hope this discussion can promote the consideration of such, by the owner.