Rake Question on hay rake size

[drw]

I'm planning to start collecting hay making equipment, anticipating that I'll be able to bale my own pasture this coming season. One thing I want to do is make small square bales.

There is a hay rake for sale in the Dallas area that I'm considering:

It's a 10 wheel rake. My concern, though, is that it may make the rows of hay too large or high for a square baler. Is this a valid concern? What kind of rake would ya'll suggest for a square baler?

 

[blueriver]

This may be too big, a side delivery rake may be better, that way you can keep make the windrows the right size for a square baler.

 

[zzvyb6]

You ought to factor the mower width into the rake equation. A 7', 9', or 12' mower either laid down or swathed and cutting number (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc) defines the amount of hay to be gathered and the number of windrows to be potentially combined. Once the windrow is built, the feed rate into the bailer is adjusted by tractor ground speed to get the job done. If you have a 7' or 9' mower, you probably can rake 2 swaths into one on 1st cutting if you have enough baler throat. No way with a 12' mower on 1st cutting unless you have a high capacity baler and more than 60 hp, let's say. On the other hand, for 3rd cutting, you could shove 3 into one without any problems. That's where the 10' wheel rake would be more efficient.

I would like to add IMO, that if this hay is for horses, the wheel rakes tend to pick up a lot of dirt, leaves, moss and tree braches because they are ground driven tines. Something horse owners don't care for in their hay. Cows, OK with it, though.

The side delivery bars rakes can be adjusted to keep the tines out of the ground to any height. I use a NH 55 side delivery rake and occasionally a Kuhn tedder/ rake combo. The tedder rake is too hard on the alfalpha leaves for my personal taste but is absolutely necessary for a faster drydown (as in after a rain).

 

[drw]

This is great advice, thank you. You have confirmed my suspicions, and I'll forgo this 10 wheel rake.

If you guys were putting together a "wish list" of the equipment you'd want to do "small time" square baling (say, 50 acres of pasture), what would you buy?

 

[zzvyb6]

That wish list is going to depend on who else besides yourself will be doing the work (mowing, raking, baling, picking up, how much tractor you may already have, who is the hay for (your animals or neighbors), how many dealers and their brands are within 10 - 20 miles of your machine shed and whether you have neighbors who also are doing square baling. There is a synergy formed when dealers, neighbors and horse owners form a cluster of work units. Start by what kind of money you are needing to shell out. When I started hay on about 25 acres, I already had a decent small tractor, added a mower for $2500, a rake for $500, and a baler for $250. I added a 4 place snowmobile trailer to tow behind the baler and for delivery for $1000, and eventually a stack wagon for $2500. That was 20 years ago. Stuff paid for itself after 2 years. The rest has been gravey. MachineFinder.com sort of says prices for starter equipment are about the same.

Everybody is different, though. How much mechanical skill you have, willingness to learn to weld and wrench, strength/weight issues, have teenage kids, Mom approves, better yet can help, best is can she operate a tractor? You get the idea....

 

[drw]

The work will all be done by my wife and me, with as much help as our two older children can give. They are 8 and 10 but certainly work hard. This year they did the bulk of our gardening so that frees me up to do larger jobs like baling.

We're wanting the hay just for our own use. Right now we are buying hay from others to feed our animals (cattle, both beef and dairy). I'd like to be self-sufficient in this area.

All the people around me are baling with round bales and have monster tractors, huge trailers, and giant sheds to store this hay. That works well for them, but it's not what I'm looking for, at all.

I have a Kubota L3400 (34hp). I'm willing to get a larger tractor, if need be, as we one day desire to have a second tractor. My wife loves operating the tractor as much as I do, and if we had two tractors then we can work at the same time.

I have some mechanical skills and maintain my stuff well. I don't know how to weld but have always wanted to. One day I'll buy a welder and learn the skill.

So, knowing all this, what would you do if you were me?

 

[flusher]

The work will all be done by my wife and me, with as much help as our two older children can give. They are 8 and 10 but certainly work hard. This year they did the bulk of our gardening so that frees me up to do larger jobs like baling.

We're wanting the hay just for our own use. Right now we are buying hay from others to feed our animals (cattle, both beef and dairy). I'd like to be self-sufficient in this area.

All the people around me are baling with round bales and have monster tractors, huge trailers, and giant sheds to store this hay. That works well for them, but it's not what I'm looking for, at all.

I have a Kubota L3400 (34hp). I'm willing to get a larger tractor, if need be, as we one day desire to have a second tractor. My wife loves operating the tractor as much as I do, and if we had two tractors then we can work at the same time.

I have some mechanical skills and maintain my stuff well. I don't know how to weld but have always wanted to. One day I'll buy a welder and learn the skill.

So, knowing all this, what would you do if you were me?

You'll definitely need a much larger tractor if you intend to go haying on 50 acres--60 hp (engine) at least. I have 10 acres of flat pasture land and use a Mahindra 5525 (55 hp engine) on a 7 acre hayfield.

Here are the implements I've gathered:

Tilling: my pasture has thin topsoil and for grasses and oats I'll just use a disc harrow. No plowing with a moldboard plow in this soil.
Coincidentally, today I took delivery of a used 13-ft tandem wheel disc ($600)

I'll remove 3 blades from each axle to get it down to 9-ft width so I can pull it with the 5525.

I'll probably pull a 9-ft cultipacker ($600) behind the disc to bust up the clods and smooth the soil

Seeding: I've restored an old Minneapolis Moline P3-6 grain drill (10 ft wide, 20 drops at 6 inch spacing). I got two of these for $275 (one the primary unit, the other the spares unit).

For 50 acres you'll need a newer drill with rubber tires instead of steel wheels.

Mowing: my mower is an old $150 Allis Chalmers 80T pull type sicklebar mower (6ft cutter).

For 50 acres you'll need a disc mower (discbine) or a mower conditioner, both of which are pricey, even used ($2-10K).

Rake: mine is a JD 350 side delivery rake ($800, 3pt hitch type, pto driven).

This is an unusual rake. Most side delivery rakes are towed on the drawbar and are ground driven, not pto driven.

Baling: mine is a used Massey Ferguson 124 two-twine square baler ($2000, 14x18 bales up to 50" long)

Now you have to figure out how to round up your bales. I plan to use a bale accumulator and grapple that mount on the skid steer plate that's attached to the FEL arms on the 5525 tractor. With 50 acres, you'll need a lot more efficient setup, probably a bale stacker, either towed by your tractor or self propelled. You can get these used for under $10K.

 

[blueriver]

The work will all be done by my wife and me, with as much help as our two older children can give. They are 8 and 10 but certainly work hard. This year they did the bulk of our gardening so that frees me up to do larger jobs like baling.

We're wanting the hay just for our own use. Right now we are buying hay from others to feed our animals (cattle, both beef and dairy). I'd like to be self-sufficient in this area.

All the people around me are baling with round bales and have monster tractors, huge trailers, and giant sheds to store this hay. That works well for them, but it's not what I'm looking for, at all.

I have a Kubota L3400 (34hp). I'm willing to get a larger tractor, if need be, as we one day desire to have a second tractor. My wife loves operating the tractor as much as I do, and if we had two tractors then we can work at the same time.

I have some mechanical skills and maintain my stuff well. I don't know how to weld but have always wanted to. One day I'll buy a welder and learn the skill.

So, knowing all this, what would you do if you were me?

Size things to fit your tractor, they sell equipment to match. I have 43 HP, use a DM1160 Disc Mower, A Case IH 8430 Round Baler and a New Holland Side delivery Rake, a gooseneck trailer, front and rear hay spike and put up ALOT of 4x4 round bales, trouble free ... I thought for myself, now the local horse people see the 4x4 bales are are asking if I have any of these for sale.

A one man operation.... and plenty of hay for my cows and horse's. I have no storage shed, maybe in the future.

BTW I started with a 7' JD sickle mower, simply was not enough, good for small acreage. This fall I got the DM1160, hooked it up just to make acouple rounds and am wishing it was hay season!!!