Gear drive vs hydro

[N80]

I guess I'm not sure what 'fast' is. First gear in my Kubota L4400 is seems almost unusably slow to me. In first gear my tractor will move forward at an idle. At 'rated engine speed' which I am assuming is the same as 540 pto which is 2100 rpm, the spec sheet says my tractor goes 1.2 mph. Of course I can go much slower using slower rpm, like 1800 and still go real slow and maintain adequate pto speed.

How slow do these optional creeper gears go?

 

[N80]

To me a spinner is just something to break your knuckles when your front wheels hit something and the wheel is ripped out of your hands.

Andy

Not with power steering! Which, by the way, makes the spinner even more speedy! The argument is not spinner or no spinner its whether you get one the same color as your tractor or just basic black. My spinner is orange.

 

[RollingsFarms]

I guess I'm not sure what 'fast' is. First gear in my Kubota L4400 is seems almost unusably slow to me. In first gear my tractor will move forward at an idle. At 'rated engine speed' which I am assuming is the same as 540 pto which is 2100 rpm, the spec sheet says my tractor goes 1.2 mph. Of course I can go much slower using slower rpm, like 1800 and still go real slow and maintain adequate pto speed.

How slow do these optional creeper gears go?

i've seen them rated as slow as .9 mph. the think i find weird is with my old tractor i could be at idle speed or full throttle and not even notice a difference in most gears when in low range.

 

[CrazyQ]

yep...

...However, HST is extreme precision and I consider it a safety item.
.

I bought the gear model as a safety advantage. I am going to use my tractor to pull logs down a very steep hill and having the tractor locked into a low gear instead of relying on hydraulics is an advantage for me....

 

[CrazyQ]

I guess I'm not sure what 'fast' is. First gear in my Kubota L4400 is seems almost unusably slow to me. In first gear my tractor will move forward at an idle. At 'rated engine speed' which I am assuming is the same as 540 pto which is 2100 rpm, the spec sheet says my tractor goes 1.2 mph. Of course I can go much slower using slower rpm, like 1800 and still go real slow and maintain adequate pto speed.

How slow do these optional creeper gears go?

In first gear,low range my Kioti is spec'd at 0.24mph. Last weekend I cut a tree, left the cut pieces where they lay, put the tractor in 1/1 and got off. As the tractor creeped past the tree i loaded the cut pieces into the bucket and jumped back on to put the tractor in a transport gear....probably not the safest, but it works well.

 

[N80]

the think i find weird is with my old tractor i could be at idle speed or full throttle and not even notice a difference in most gears when in low range.

Actually, that's a good point. I said I could go much slower at a lower RPM and that isn't accurate. There is a difference between idle and 2100 rpm, but you are correct, it is not huge.

Regardless, I think it will go slower than 1.2 mph, which sounds like it puts it down into the 'creeper' gear level. But, that's just the 4400, obviously other gear tractors do need the creeper option to go really slow. But as it is with the L4400, I rarely if ever use 1st gear, even when mowing in tight quarters, but I have never used a tiller.

And the HST spec sheets do list the speed range starting with zero, so as Dargo mentioned it is infinite. In my case though I'm not sure that the infinite variations between zero and less than 1 mph is particularly meaningful.

But that leads me to a question. If you are mowing with an HST, or anything else that requires a certain PTO speed, is the PTO speed connected to ground speed at all. In otherwords, on its lowest setting, can an HST creep at .3 mph and maintain 540 rpm PTO speed?

 

[N80]

In first gear,low range my Kioti is spec'd at 0.24mph.

Wow! That is sloooooow. I can hardly see the utility in a gear that low, unless you have plenty more to work with. But if you do, that's pretty cool. How many forward gears does it have?

As the tractor creeped past the tree i loaded the cut pieces into the bucket and jumped back on to put the tractor in a transport gear....probably not the safest, but it works well.

Yes, as we speak the safety gods are getting all red in the face and preparing for bluster. And I'd have to say, I'd never do that....but at 1/4 mph I can see how it would be tempting?

No operator presence switch on that model?

 

[jake98]

Not that I want to add to the extra liability side, (is there a forum here for that?), but with the hydro, you don't have to jump on and off, you can leave the brake on and in low range you can move a few feet without more than one finger on the pedal... or you can drive all over with the brake on if that suits you.
Jake

 

[N80]

Not that I want to add to the extra liability side, (is there a forum here for that?), but with the hydro, you don't have to jump on and off, you can leave the brake on and in low range you can move a few feet without more than one finger on the pedal... or you can drive all over with the brake on if that suits you.
Jake

Are you talking talking about getting off a moving tractor too? Do you guys ride in the bucket while doing this?

 

[Matt_Jr]

Are you talking talking about getting off a moving tractor too? Do you guys ride in the bucket while doing this?

LMAO.

I had a JD210 with first gear being .3mph. It was a 5 speed trans with 6 settings in between each speed. First gear had a lock out so it always started out in second unless unlocked. The BX24 has a HST and PTO is based on engine speed not ground speed. It's a live PTO. PTO speed stays the same in forward and reverse and while switching between the two.

 

[Soundguy]

It must vary, I had a sales manager tell me specifically that margins on basic no frills machines were much less than on higher end machines like the GLs. But that was over 3 years ago.

I know some models of NH's were priced that way. i had the owner of our local NH dealer tell me the 3010S and the TC 30 were economy models specifically targetes at a couple colors tractors in that hp range.. and that those 2 models in particular were not much for profit.. but wee just to keep the customers n a blue machine... may not be like that for all of them though??

soundguy

 

[Reg]

Sounds good to me.
Tie a couple of pairs of strings around the joystick, route them appropriately,
another couple for the hand throttle,
set the brake,
climb in the bucket,
raise it with the remote joystick strings,
bump the throttle with those other strings (errr, which ones ?) every time you want to go down the row a couple of feet,
stop by closing the throttle - no, that is the open throttle string - now its going faster.
better lower the bucket and jump out, which strings for that ?
Ooops..... that was the dump/curl pair in dump direction.


Yeah, I guess I finally DO see the case for hydro trans.

 

[jake98]

Yeah, I guess I finally DO see the case for hydro trans.

Well, we wouldn't ever want to advocate any unsafe practice, but you could do that too, with one more string on the clutch...

I'll only nudge it a few inches, myself.

Jake

 

[N80]

LMAO.
The BX24 has a HST and PTO is based on engine speed not ground speed. It's a live PTO. PTO speed stays the same in forward and reverse and while switching between the two.

Right, the same is true of my gear tractor. And while PTO speed isn't directly related to ground speed, ground speed is related to engine RPMs the same as the PTO speed.

My point is, it seems like some folks are saying that an advantage to HST is that you can go real slow while tilling and mowing. But it also seems like with HST or gear, slowing ground speed down too much and you're going to lose PTO speed as well. So the point seems to be moot. In first gear I'm maxing out at 1.2 mph at ideal pto speed. That's pretty slow and it can go slower than that and still mainatain adequate pto speed. So I don't see a real advantage there....except in the case where some others say that first gear in their gear tractors has much higher ground speed.

 

[vsteel]

I love the HST that I have and I think it does a great job for the work I do. I mow with a lot of obstacles and I do loader work.

I have run thousands of hours on gear tractors and never cared for them for loader type of things. (I never ran one with a shuttle shift.) I also used to have issues with them not having a slow enough first gear when bailing hay and the windrows got thick. But for picking a gear and then tilling for 10 hours, they can't be beat.

For the rest of the article I need a green spinner but only with manual steering, if its powered no knob but I need the full lug tires unless I am mowing then I like the industrial tread. ummm, I also need synthetic oil in them all. I use a manual grease gun and have never used a flail mower. I also use a Husky chainsaw with a Shindawa trimmer.

 

[Egon]

But it also seems like with HST or gear, slowing ground speed down too much and you're going to lose PTO speed as well. So the point seems to be moot.

This one has me confused.

I recall Rototilling with a HST with the throttle wide open and the ground speed approaching zero at times but the PTO speed was what the engine RPM dictated!

spinner but only with manual steering,

Many of us may use a spinner with power steering but do not do so with manual steering and four wheel drive.

 

[art]

Right, the same is true of my gear tractor. And while PTO speed isn't directly related to ground speed, ground speed is related to engine RPMs the same as the PTO speed.

My point is, it seems like some folks are saying that an advantage to HST is that you can go real slow while tilling and mowing. But it also seems like with HST or gear, slowing ground speed down too much and you're going to lose PTO speed as well. So the point seems to be moot. In first gear I'm maxing out at 1.2 mph at ideal pto speed. That's pretty slow and it can go slower than that and still mainatain adequate pto speed. So I don't see a real advantage there....except in the case where some others say that first gear in their gear tractors has much higher ground speed.

With a hydro, you can go.24 mph at PTO speed, as well as .20 or .30 or 3. all at PTO speed and never touch a gear shift lever! You can do that at any engine speed you would like. Switching a range, most hydros have three with some brands only offering two you can get full power up to road speed for what ever you feel comfortable with.

 

[N80]

This one has me confused.

Me too, but that's because I don't know anything about HSt other than a test drive in a parking lot 3 years ago on a tractor I knew I wasn't going to buy...all I remember is pressing a pedal.

I recall Rototilling with a HST with the throttle wide open and the ground speed approaching zero at times but the PTO speed was what the throttle engine RPM dictated!

Makes sense I guess. So the throttle and the 'pedal' are seperate things? In other words, set the throttle to 2100 rpm which means PTO goes 540 and then work the 'go' pedal seperately and go as slow as you want but keep constant PTO speed? That's cool. So you can creep around obstacles and still maintain good mower blade speed.

Okay, that's neat, but again, we're still sort of splitting hairs here since with a gear tractor, especially some of the ones cited above with ground speeds of .24 mph at 540 pto speed, you can still go painfully slow while keeping good pto speed. Maybe not technically as precise.....but in practical terms, maybe a wash?

(Sorry to be thinking out loud, I'm just trying to think through this and I don't have any HST experience and with my tractor second gear is slow enough to mow around shed, cars and house. Which means I don't have a lot of experience using first gear even in my own tractor!)

 

[Egon]

Aha - you have never had the privilege of actually operating an HST equipped tractor! Now it all makes sense.

 

[N80]

Aha - you have never had the privilege of actually operating an HST equipped tractor! Now it all makes sense.

No, I thought I made it very very clear that I had driven one in a parking lot once.