Pole Barn with no permit

[Highbeam]

Wetlands come and go. As such, any wetlands map is only a map of "potential" or past wetlands. The current permit that should have been purchased would have included an investigation as to whether or not there were any wetlands and if so, what the setbacks would be.

You can often encourage wetlands to go away or accidentally create one by digging a hole.

I don't see any value to wetlands that don't include standing water year round.

 

[ByronBob]

Is that two permits, one to remove and one to install?

Thats such BS, If your water heater implodes Friday evening, you'd have to wait until Monday to install the new one?

Only 1 for installation. They want to make sure someone doesn't install a gas heater and have it blow up later.

My town already had me down as having a finshed basement. So I took their advice and finshed it......

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I went down to the City offices and

1) Asked if any permits in the neighborhood.
Answer: None

2) Wetlands? Easy

Answer: Looked at the wetlands map for the area.

In my neighborhood, it takes a permit to sneeze.

Permit to re roof a house, to install a fence, you name it, a permit is required.

DNR is trumped by local laws in Wisconsin.

Must be 50 feet from any wetlands. Can disrupt within 30, but must build no closer than 50 feet.

I think this guy is toast.

I am curious why you care so much what your neighbor does? Is this barn going to be on your land? If not then why the concern?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Only 1 for installation. They want to make sure someone doesn't install a gas heater and have it blow up later.

My town already had me down as having a finshed basement. So I took their advice and finshed it......

It isn't just about having one blow up. They want a someone who knows what they are doing install them so you do not have some fly by night incorrectly hook up the gas supply as well as the vent. The vent is their biggest concern now as so many people screw this part up it isn't funny.

What is nice is the high efficiency units now just require the 2" PVC out the wall so venting has become a lot easier if you get the right tank.

 

[Soundguy]

A permit to put up a fence? Dang.. I'll -NEVER- live in that state... how long have they been under communist rule? As long as kaliphornia?

soundguy

I went down to the City offices and

1) Asked if any permits in the neighborhood.
Answer: None

2) Wetlands? Easy

Answer: Looked at the wetlands map for the area.

In my neighborhood, it takes a permit to sneeze.

Permit to re roof a house, to install a fence, you name it, a permit is required.

DNR is trumped by local laws in Wisconsin.

Must be 50 feet from any wetlands. Can disrupt within 30, but must build no closer than 50 feet.

I think this guy is toast.

 

[Soundguy]

I am curious why you care so much what your neighbor does? Is this barn going to be on your land? If not then why the concern?

Some people like to be in other people's business is my guess.

I have a neighbor like that... makes for a real fun experience living next to them...

soundguy

 

[Robert_in_NY]

A permit to put up a fence? Dang.. I'll -NEVER- live in that state... how long have they been under communist rule? As long as kaliphornia?

soundguy

The permits for fences usually is for towns. They are designed to keep peoples fences away from roads and proper heights. There were people who wanted to put up 6' tall fences around their property so no one could see in but they put the fences up tight to roads making it hard for people to pull out of their driveways or intersections because they couldn't see thru the fence. So the permits are designed to help dictate setbacks and height restrictions in towns similar to the setbacks for houses near boundry lines.

 

[Soundguy]

Down here, we have what are called 'right of way's'.. Those setbacks IE.. from the road to where you can build on your property is a ROW... I thought it was common knowledge that you couldn't build in a ROW without specific permission? seems like some states micromanage way way too much.. guess that's how they justify those higher taxes and such

soundguy

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Down here, we have what are called 'right of way's'.. Those setbacks IE.. from the road to where you can build on your property is a ROW... I thought it was common knowledge that you couldn't build in a ROW without specific permission? seems like some states micromanage way way too much.. guess that's how they justify those higher taxes and such

soundguy

The problem comes in when you have people who say "I pay tax to the middle of the road so I own it". There are always people around here who try to keep the plows and towns from leaving the paved section of the road. They feel they own the shoulder and will put a fence out to it and complain when the snow plow removes it for them

A few people ruin it for everyone which is why we have lawyers and permits

 

[Soundguy]

Dang.. down here.. it's just common knowledge... there are a few that pull a 'northern' stunt like that.. however the county or city comes along.. removes whatever was built in the ROW, zoning writes the homeowner a fine, and then they backcharge them for being stupid..er.. for the removal of the materials in the row... if the owner doesn't pay the fine / bills. they attach their property and send them to court... in the end.. the people loose their house for being stupid.. or they pay .. it's usually a quick learning curve.. thus no need for a permit to breathe or anything weird like it sounds like the people in higher elevation need

As others have mentioned.. I've been in states where you didn't even need a permit to build a house... etc. guess there are still some 'free' areas o f the country left...

soundguy

 

[Doc_Bob]

I am curious why you care so much what your neighbor does? Is this barn going to be on your land? If not then why the concern?

Because if he can pull it off, then maybe I can pull it off!

If he gets caught, I want to see what they do to him. If they just fine him and slap his hand, and let him keep the barn, then that is great!!!! Assuming the cost ($$$) of the fines is not to great, then I would love to do the same.

"Better task for forgiveness rather than ask for permission".
Bob

 

[Doc_Bob]

Some people like to be in other people's business is my guess.

I have a neighbor like that... makes for a real fun experience living next to them...

soundguy

Also when it involves meth labs, crack houses, child endangerment, etc.
Bob

 

[Tom_H]

A pole barn would not worry me much, but if I am buying an existing house, I want to know that building inspectors approved each stage of the construction. In places where there are no permits and inspections, construction techniques and materials may be substandard. If a person comes along and buys an existing house, which after the short warranty period begins to fall apart, catch on fire, etc., who is responsible? The purpose of permits and inspections is not to provide somebody with a paycheck. (I have seen that in China where a public worker stands outside every elevator door waiting to push the "up" or "down" button whenever someone needs to get on. They get just as upset if you try to do it yourself as those gas pumpers do in Oregon.) Anyway, building permits and inspections provide a valuable service by insuring that structures can be certified as adequately constructed according to code. When a storm destroys a bunch of houses that should have been able to withstand the wind, who pays for it? You do and I do, our taxes get doled out to people to rebuild. What if the houses were owner-built and substandard, and would have been stronger if permits and inspections to code performed? Do you really want to pay more taxes to replace those folks' houses? Just because something is not regulated does not make that automatically good. They deregulated the housing loan industry a few years back and what did that get us? A few multimillionaires gamed the system and became billionaires, and who's paying for the messed up banking and loan system that resulted. You are. Supply and demand affected gas prices, but deregulation of the futures market allowed speculators to make a killing off that too. Who pays for them to get rich? You do, every time you fill up. Keep reducing the number of FDA meat inspectors and what happens: results inversely proportional to the amount of salmonella poisoning due to E. coli. Deregulate airlines and you get horrible service and bankruptcies paid for by whom? Now I am not crying for overregulation, but no regulation at all is just silly. Politicians who say businesses and people should be able to voluntarily regulate themselves are just friends of the greedy who want to get rich at the expense of regular old hard working people like you and me. If faced with the choice of needing to buy a house and two houses are on the market, one was built by an owner-builder who never had an an inspection and the other received permits and every stage was certified as being to code, which one are you going to buy? Again, a pole barn, you can look at it and tell if there are going to be problems, but a house?

Now, as to wetlands. I consider myself a pragmatic environmentalist. Eden is gone, we're never gettin' it back. We can't keep every last drop of water clean, but I ain't gonna be the first person to move back into the Love Canal neighborhood and get my water from a local well. Offshore drilling, I am for it, but with restrictions 10 times stronger than ever before; if I owned a beach house, I wouldn't want a spill ruining my investment. Wetlands, you can't save them all, BUT I have some on the edge of my property with an extremely rare species that's protected. Allowing extant species to become extinct is problematic for more than just idealistic reasons. I am for wind power, but, if the big turbines kill every bat there is, we are up the creek 'cause those bats eat millions of tons of insects at night, insects that would eat all the crops on earth if not checked by bats and birds. Some of this is just practical. Another issue is that when a species goes extinct, you don't know what genes and biochemicals you might be losing. There is a tree in the northwest known as the Ewe. It produces a chemical called Taxol that is a powerful agent in chemotherapy. Tree goes extinct and we just throw away a great free gift nature gave us. In the tropical rain forests, drug companies have loads of researchers frantically searching for new compounds in rare and unstudied plants before they become extinct. The rare protected species on the wetlands by my house might contain something that might save somebody's life someday. I don't think we need to save every member of this species and every vernal pool that has them, but when a species is close to extinction or its low numbers throws everything else out of whack, then it pays to at least be prudent with some protection.

Personally, I am tired of extremists. I don't care for overregulation or for extremist environmentalism. I also don't care for those who call for no regulation (Let's let criminals voluntarily regulate themselves; we won't need to pay cops or prison guards anymore; that'll lower taxes) and no environmental protections at all. (In many places in China, you turn on the tap and multicolored goop flows out.) Why can't the politicians and business owners just use some plain old common sense and find a pragmatic middle ground that serves the greatest interests of the greatest number of people? Answer: cause the world is full of people who serve their own interests and don't care at all about the greater good. End of rant.

 

[Soundguy]

Because if he can pull it off, then maybe I can pull it off!

If he gets caught, I want to see what they do to him. If they just fine him and slap his hand, and let him keep the barn, then that is great!!!! Assuming the cost ($$$) of the fines is not to great, then I would love to do the same.

"Better task for forgiveness rather than ask for permission".
Bob

Around here the penality for no permit is 2x the permit cost.. which seems pretty mild..e tc..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Also when it involves meth labs, crack houses, child endangerment, etc.
Bob

I'm sorry.. you failed to mention that he was building the barn in order to cook meth, sell crack and endanger kids.. if you had.. my answer may have been different... ( humor )

soundguy

 

[jinman]

Why can't the politicians and business owners just use some plain old common sense and find a pragmatic middle ground that serves the greatest interests of the greatest number of people? Answer: cause the world is full of people who serve their own interests and don't care at all about the greater good. End of rant.

Hey Tom. . . great rant I loved it. You expressed my opinions, and I didn't even have to type.

 

[Chuck52]

Just because something is not regulated does not make that automatically good. They deregulated the housing loan industry a few years back and what did that get us? A few multimillionaires gamed the system and became billionaires, and who's paying for the messed up banking and loan system that resulted. You are. Supply and demand affected gas prices, but deregulation of the futures market allowed speculators to make a killing off that too. Who pays for them to get rich? You do, every time you fill up.

Dang, Tom, you're near as smart as Paris!

Chuck

 

[Podunkadunk]

I'm sorry.. you failed to mention that he was building the barn in order to cook meth, sell crack and endanger kids.. if you had.. my answer may have been different... ( humor )

soundguy

I agree with Soundguy, if you had said that in the beginning, would have been a whole different story!

In your original post, you sounded a lot like Gladys Kravitz!

Podunk

 

[LMTC]

A pole barn would not worry me much, but if I am buying an existing house, I want to know that building inspectors approved each stage of the construction. In places where there are no permits and inspections, construction techniques and materials may be substandard. If a person comes along and buys an existing house, which after the short warranty period begins to fall apart, catch on fire, etc., who is responsible? The purpose of permits and inspections is not to provide somebody with a paycheck. (I have seen that in China where a public worker stands outside every elevator door waiting to push the "up" or "down" button whenever someone needs to get on. They get just as upset if you try to do it yourself as those gas pumpers do in Oregon.) Anyway, building permits and inspections provide a valuable service by insuring that structures can be certified as adequately constructed according to code.

Just because something is not regulated does not make that automatically good. They deregulated the housing loan industry a few years back and what did that get us? A few multimillionaires gamed the system and became billionaires, and who's paying for the messed up banking and loan system that resulted. You are.

First let me acknowledge that the above is a partial quote.....you can read the whole post earlier in the thread. If you think building codes and/or inspectors are any sort of guarantee against substandard materials or procedures, you are mistaken. I have been directly and indirectly involved in home and pole barn building for close to thirty years, and codes/inspectors do not assure that codes are always met. Not even close. In my experience, in the areas I have been, way too many of those jobs are political.

Regarding the mortgage situation, your response is a dramatic oversimplification, but any clarification would be as political as your initial claim, and the rules here prohibit that.

 

[davitk]

First let me acknowledge that the above is a partial quote.....you can read the whole post earlier in the thread. If you think building codes and/or inspectors are any sort of guarantee against substandard materials or procedures, you are mistaken. I have been directly and indirectly involved in home and pole barn building for close to thirty years, and codes/inspectors do not assure that codes are always met. Not even close. In my experience, in the areas I have been, way too many of those jobs are political.

Regarding the mortgage situation, your response is a dramatic oversimplification, but any clarification would be as political as your initial claim, and the rules here prohibit that.

Let me just say, if you have not been in an area requiring no permits/inspections, you have no idea what gets passed off by some, not all, of those schmuck "contractors". Oh, the horrors!!