ZTR pivoting axel

[Spiffy]

I'm probably going to answer my own question, but in the spirit of "if it ain't broke, you haven't modified it far enough" I have to ask:

I just bought a Snapper NZM21521KWV; everything I was looking for....except the pivoting front axel like the Cub Cadets and a few other makes (liked the looks of IFS like Ferris etc too, but sounds like overkill and looks like too much work for a mod).

It doen't ride bad and certainly built stout, but I think it could do better. Maybe it's just me, but the front end looks like it's begging for the mod (sorry no pics yet). /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Reasons not to:
1. Have yet to cut grass with it, so can't honestly say it isn't good enough. Of course, once my mother gets it, I won't get to touch it again, unless my wife kidnaps it occassionally to do our place [or it needs maintenance]. It'll see some abuse, but not an extreme amount of nasty bumps or side hills.

2. I'm sure that puts the warranty right out the window!
Yeah, I probably did answer my own questions, but still curious! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

So....
Just how desirable (or undesirable) is this feature?
Am I completely nuts to even consider the mod? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
If not: I think I know how I'd do it, but any suggestions?

Thanks!

Chad

 

[gamble77]

Just one...wait until the warranty runs out!!

 

[Nasty135]

Spiffy, Gotta tell ya , the lesco has the pivoting front axle and it is nice for traversing from level ground to a grade up or down.

Used it today as a matter of fact for the first full cutting of the year and what used to take 4+ hours was reduced to 2:45 minutes and I'm just getting used to it ! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Although you do pick it up pretty quick /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Posted pics in the photo section if you care to see. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Nasty137,
Wow; thanks for posting the pictures ; you weren't exagerating that it looks identical to the M60 Tank! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you get the cutting speed I think that deck's capable of, I bet you'll have it in 2 hours flat in no time. Too awesome! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'll keep you posted on the Snapper. That front end is still teasing me, but my better sense keeps saying the same as Gamble77 just did.

Chad

 

[Spiffy]

Thanks Gamble77!! I'm afraid you may be right. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Of course, if anyone still has some creative ideas, I'll print them out and stash them right along with my warranty papers! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chad

 

[sportzkat]

In my ongoing quest for the perfect ZTR (!) I have concluded that I want something with at least a pivoting front axle, if not suspension like the Ferris. I came to this conclusion after watching a guy mow with a John Deere that had a fixed front end and the thing spent more time on three wheels than on four! I'm sure you get used to it, but I kinda like the idea of keeping them all on the ground.

BTW - Went today to take a closer look at a Ferris 1500, and they were all gone. Dealer said they had been selling like hotcakes and they don't know when they will get more in. After my first visit looking at it, I was impressed, and I think the IFS sounds like a pretty good setup. Any thoughts?

 

[GerardC]

<font color="blue"> Went today to take a closer look at a Ferris 1500, and they were all gone. </font>

What does the unit cost?

 

[milkman]

Check out the Kubota ZD mowers, they ARE awesome, nothing else built like it, don't believe it just look at the drive system.

 

[vicory]

I am looking at the Ferris 1500 with a 48" deck, priced at $5,490 in Central Ky., the 52" jumps to $6,790. Simplicity Citation is similar but different motors, uses B & S Vanguard, 48" is $5,399 and 52" is $5,999. I've tried them out, nice ride the IFS does make a difference on rough terrain and also on hills/slopes. I've seen some debate on the moving parts issue and also Simplicity using B&S where Ferris uses Kohler & Kawaski. The simplicity has rear rolling bar across back of deck and corner wheels as wheel. Ferris uses no rear deck wheels at all, they say they aren't needed due to rear of deck being higher than front. I think they'd still be prudent though especially on uneven ground.

 

[Spiffy]

Considering the suspension on 4 wheelers and everything now, I'd say IS is well proven, but you just can't get simpler than a pivoting axel.

If the extra moving parts don't scare you, I'd think IFS is fine. No experience with IS on mowers myself, but unless you're really after the perfect ride, or plan to mow at 10mph, I'm not sure the gains over pivoting are huge. Of course, considering you ride nearly over the back wheels anyway, the 4 wheel IS [instead of just front] may have merit. Combine that with a "floating" seat, I bet it's comfy! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'd say [between pivot & IS] base your choices on other factors first, but I'm the one still trying to figure out how to get one or the other around my warranty! After two years, you guys might have the verdict anyway...maybe the wait isn't so bad... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chad

 

[Spiffy]

Thought I replied to this, but the computer's been a bit haywire lately.

Too many parts is probably personal taste; can't get simpler than pivoting, but IS is proven, even if not so much on mowers.

Since you're riding over the rear, I can't think that IFS has huge gains over a pivoting axel. Now 4 wheel IS and a nice seat, that's got to be awesome, even if overkill for mowing speeds. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'd say between the pivoting and IS (unless one does just feel right) base your choice on other factors first. Of course, I'm the one still trying to how to not void my warrenty by modding the front end. But in 2 seasons you guys may have the IS or pivot question solved...maybe the wait isn't so bad! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

By the way were those prices MSRP, sticker, or final quote? I understand that B&S might be a bit cheaper than the Kaw, but for 3 cousins the prices seem a bit erratic. The 05 Snapper 21hp Kaw 52in is $7100, stickered at $6599.

Chad

 

[Nasty135]

Seams this post is also eluding to rider comfort as well as keeping 4 wheels on the ground.
Something I just remembered reading in my owner operating manual is that the ZTR's come shipped with 25-30lbs in the tires, which will bruise your kidneys in a heartbeat /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

It recommends between 8-10lbs. in rear and 15lbs in front , It makes a world of difference /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif as would also a good seat help make for an acceptable ride for that Hi-speed cutting experience /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif WHOOSH ,what was that ETHEL!!

 

[sportzkat]

I'm being quoted $5799 for a 1500 w/ 48" deck. Haven't negotiaited with them yet, though.

 

[vicory]

I was quoted $5,490 for the 48" Ferris with 21 HP Kawasaki engine. The same model in Simplicity is the Citation, differences are it doesn't have the front shocks but it pivots and it has the 21Hp Briggs Vanguard. I like the Simplicity's ride a bit more but I believe that's because the shocks on the Ferris were adjusted to most firm position. Price for the Simplicity quoted was $5,399. I've not tried to negotiate down but plan to do so. I'm leaning towards the Simplicity but not sure about the Vanguard, anyone have comments on that, I've read post noting Kawasaki, Kohler and Briggs Vanguard are all good engines with Kohler getting the most favorable comments.

 

[Nasty135]

vicory, When I started looking ,I was only seeing kohler stuff and heard all good things about them so thats what I was going to get .
Butwith that said My lesco ZTR has the kawasaki because they didn't offer kohler and it seams to have plenty of power and runs smooth enough only time will tell if it was a good choice /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I was looking at the specifications of both kawasaki and kohler and according to the hustler website the kawasaki engine 25hp puts out 41lb of torque @ 2400rpm and they kohler 27hp has 42.7 @ 3000 rpm . So there is only a slight difference and at a lower rpm for the kawasaki.

What would be nice is a fuel consumption rate for acres mowed on all lawn mowers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif HMMMM? maybe I could start a new career on that one /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Rear IS and front pivot, I'm thinking that is a nice marriage between simple and IS. I'm really relishing the fact that you like the ride, since I pondered in an earlier post that the rear IS may be nice.

As far as the solid mounting, I tried mowing some rough ground with the Snapper this morning. I didn't have any issues with control or anything else awkward when one wheel didn't make contact. However, regarless of one or two front wheels making contact, I could feel every bump that went under the rear wheels. The seat took some shock out, but I can see where other threads eluded to damage of internal organs if you mow anywhere near full speed over rough ground. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

The dealer was trying to sell me on a couple other mowers at the same time, so I asked the engine question as well; he told me the 21HP Kaw would out-perform the 23Hp Kohlers and some B&S he pointed out too. Dealer's opinion may or may not be biased, but I sure liked how it pulled through some tough stuff I tried this morning (tall and wet; tried some thick layers of leaves too); first maybe couple hundred RPM dropped instantly off, but then just purred. Despite all the bad things you hear about B&S, the Vangard is sounding pretty good, but I can't give you any first hand there.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the Snapper, but if I had tried something with IS, maybe things would have been different.

Lined it up right beside a M48 and M54: like many of the comericial units, the critical parts so are close it's scary. Same price, I'd probably went with the CC (for the spindle bearings and pivoting front end); but Snapper has it's features too, and I actually like the hydralic layout a bit better (assuming the pumps and motors are identical units).

Chad