Your last generator Maintenance Run

[3930dave]

Yup. He seems to be particularly busy in Ontario these days. We had an eight hour power outage at the cottage while I was not there. Generator with an automatic transfer switch did not come on. No problem, I have a freeze alarm which is supposed to call me when the power is out, after one hour. But, the 9 V back up battery on the freeze alarm died. So why didn't it did call me earlier, saying that the battery was low? (it is supposed to do that, too.). Murphy, you rat!

Anyway, after eight hours the power came back on, whereupon the freeze alarm immediately called me and told me that the power was off and that the battery was down to 7 volts. (The freeze alarm left me a message on my voicemail.) So, I called the cottage, and the freeze alarm told me that the power was on but the battery was low.

To make an even longer story short, I headed up to the cottage, met up with the generator guy, and we believe that the problem was a corroded wire connection, corroded by mouse pee! A bit of scraping of the wire and some dialectric grease, and we HOPE the problem is solved, since the generator ran fine on manual run, and delivered power into the cottage no problem. We believe it was that corroded wire which is a wire for a circuit to allow the generator to talk to the transfer switch that was the problem.

A fresh 9-volt battery for the freeze alarm as well, and hopefully we are good to go. (Lots of mothballs inside the generator now as well.)

PITA, but at least nothing froze or spoiled, and I did save 8 hours of propane fuel consumption!

Cool story.... pun semi-intended..... I've come to see the value of just changing alkaline batteries (don't always get 'em all done though....) at 3/4 or so of life cycle on critical stuff.

As declared, I prefer to run things once in a while...... I'll now add mouse pee to the reasons why ! Murphy has many allies, large and small :shocked: .

I remember once on a bike (MC) forum, a guy described his repair on what should have been a fairly mint-condition carburator..... turns out that a tiny ant had somehow crawled into the carb and expired in a critical spot. Once he was done with the blue-air words, he did comment that it was actually impressive how such an tiny thing had stopped a relatively massive machine.

Rgds, D.

 

[grsthegreat]

Those heaters you use grs sound like the cat's pajamas ! :thumbsup:

Reminded me of something Honda markets here on their generators.... managed to find a description just now....


Cold Climate Technology

Honda's industry leading "Cold Climate Technology" is specifically designed for our cold Canadian winters. Our exclusive breather heater system helps keep the crankcase ventilation tube free of ice formation and helps prevent generator shutdown.

That paragraph is buried down in the Why Buy a Honda section (in Read More):

Honda Canada

I'm curious as to what extent that feature is available in other geographies.

Rgds, D.

Generac also has a Air cooled breather heater, but only recommends its use in severe cold areas. im not using one of those.Generac model 7103.

Im using the model # 7101 battery heater

and the #7102 oil heater

 

[daugen]

would one of those heaters have prevented what Dave and I both think is ice/water ingestion? It was below freezing and icy when this happened.

 

[Rocky J]

My 22kw Generac went on test cycle right in the middle of last weekends cold temps and ice.
Not a happy startup at all. Surging, sounded like rpms rising, kind of a misfire, then after fifteen seconds, smooth as could be. Did I ingest some water/condensation/ice? Propane, 500 gal tank, full.

Not sure how much computer you have on your generator if any but most gas engine call for more fuel when cold and will backfire and hunt for fuel when lean. Also most on demand propane regulators are vacuum operated and when you start your engine and the governor pulls the throttle plate wide open in the carb it does not have as much vacuum. Most of my engines are on propane and they seem to need the spark plug changed more often . Propane is 110 octane and burns slower then gasoline and usually needs the timing retarded slightly (which I never do ) The way I understand it is it has a longer fuse and needs lit quicker to ignite at the same time gasoline would. With a 500 gallon tank you will never have a problem with it not vaporizing fast enough, I use 20 pound cylinders on 4 cylinder engines and only have problems at wide open on some days, nothing two 20 pound tanks would not fix.

 

[3930dave]

Not sure how much computer you have on your generator if any but most gas engine call for more fuel when cold and will backfire and hunt for fuel when lean. Also most on demand propane regulators are vacuum operated and when you start your engine and the governor pulls the throttle plate wide open in the carb it does not have as much vacuum. Most of my engines are on propane and they seem to need the spark plug changed more often . Propane is 110 octane and burns slower then gasoline and usually needs the timing retarded slightly (which I never do ) The way I understand it is it has a longer fuse and needs lit quicker to ignite at the same time gasoline would. With a 500 gallon tank you will never have a problem with it not vaporizing fast enough, I use 20 pound cylinders on 4 cylinder engines and only have problems at wide open on some days, nothing two 20 pound tanks would not fix.

Interesting point about the plugs - not what I would have expected. Then again, air cooled generators are tougher on plugs in general than most automotive applications.

Years ago when propane was more of an option on vehicles here, cold-start (re. vapourization) on those older systems below -30C was often an issue, but I suspect daugen wasn't near those temperatures.

Good point on the vacuum aspect. With propane my guess is there is less of a chance of the fuel being directly contaminated with water, but that is only a guess. I know my MC has a vacuum operated fuel petcock, I wonder if daugen's auto-gen is similar. My bike takes extra cranking after sitting all Winter, to prime the fuel line..... really need to move a MityVac up my Tools to Buy list....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

would one of those heaters have prevented what Dave and I both think is ice/water ingestion? It was below freezing and icy when this happened.

IMO they'll help, but not guarantee perfection. The ones grs uses I can see being a good aid for cranking over in cold - battery is warm therefore higher capacity, and oil is pre-warmed a bit.

IF our guess is correct, and you had a tiny ice crystal sitting where it shouldn't have been, that is pretty tough to defend against 100%. The other breather heater grs listed is for really cold operation - my guess is what happens in extended runs in very cold ambient is the breather tube may build up crystals and block up.

Likely not practical to do on auto-start systems, but a good point has been made here recently about leaving manual chokes On when stored. Weird combinations of moisture and temperature swings can deposit condensed ice crystals in strange places (like the trunk of a car I had parked at an airport recently), closing the choke for storage on manual units might help a bit.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Generac also has a Air cooled breather heater, but only recommends its use in severe cold areas. im not using one of those.Generac model 7103.View attachment 495287

Im using the model # 7101 battery heater View attachment 495285

and the #7102 oil heater View attachment 495286

Thanks for the pics/PNs grs. I'm familiar with similar Temro larger pad heaters, but those you show look like exact fit designs.

Rgds, D.

 

[Rocky J]

Interesting point about the plugs - not what I would have expected. Then again, air cooled generators are tougher on plugs in general than most automotive applications.

Years ago when propane was more of an option on vehicles here, cold-start (re. vapourization) on those older systems below -30C was often an issue, but I suspect daugen wasn't near those temperatures.

Good point on the vacuum aspect. With propane my guess is there is less of a chance of the fuel being directly contaminated with water, but that is only a guess. I know my MC has a vacuum operated fuel petcock, I wonder if daugen's auto-gen is similar. My bike takes extra cranking after sitting all Winter, to prime the fuel line..... really need to move a MityVac up my Tools to Buy list....

Rgds, D.

I am sure there is a vacuum port on his regulator that runs a hose to a port on the engine side of the throttle plate in the carb, it is a safety device to shut off the propane if the motor quits for any reason. My floor burnisher has two of them.The regulators are so sensitive that they have to be mounted vertical so the weight of the diaphragm does not affect it in a lean or rich way, just about the only rule in mounting them other then the closer to the carb the better .On my mowers I have to put the throttle in the lowest idle position to build vacuum to start, on the burnisher I remove the vacuum hose and put it in my mouth and draw on it till it starts then quickly put it back on the manifold.

 

[farmer2009]

You guys with residential auto start generators. Is your switch gears not able to load your generator during test runs?

The 80KW diesel generator at the chicken coops gets test loaded every week. Switch gear starts generator, lets it come up to speed and transfers, placing load on generator for about 15 minutes, then a 15 minute cool down before it shuts down generator. The switch is fast enough that the lights don't even blink unless I'm close to max draw. The computers/alarm system don't even register the switch.

But it got a 2 hour exercise Thursday night when the line fell in the neighbors woods. At 10pm. Load around 50 amps. Little birds+cold weather=light load.

 

[Dakota_male]

You guys with residential auto start generators. Is your switch gears not able to load your generator during test runs?

The 80KW diesel generator at the chicken coops gets test loaded every week. Switch gear starts generator, lets it come up to speed and transfers, placing load on generator for about 15 minutes, then a 15 minute cool down before it shuts down generator. The switch is fast enough that the lights don't even blink unless I'm close to max draw. The computers/alarm system don't even register the switch.

But it got a 2 hour exercise Thursday night when the line fell in the neighbors woods. At 10pm. Load around 50 amps. Little birds+cold weather=light load.

My 20 kw, Aurora uses a Milbank Vigilant ATS and everything stays on when it transfers during the monthly test or manually testing.

 

[check]

My 20 kw, Aurora uses a Milbank Vigilant ATS and everything stays on when it transfers during the monthly test or manually testing.

Hmmm. I wonder if Kohler generators do that?

 

[daugen]

Interesting point, my two year old Generac 22kw does not have any load whatsoever; main breaker does not trip, it just starts up and runs at about 60-80% normal rpm, definitely slower than normal, for noise issues I'm sure.
So there is no loading whatsoever going on. Thats the bad news. The good news, sort of, is I lose all power often enough the gen gets a full load workout at least once per month. but it does remind me to run it all manual once in a while if the power hasn't gone out in a few months. Fast idling it will get temps up but not the exercise I think we all want.

 

[Dakota_male]

Hmmm. I wonder if Kohler generators do that?

I would think that it does providing it has the ats.(auto transfer switch)
i think only the higher ampere ats have a mid transfer delay (park) to unload compressors on heat pump etc.

 

[grsthegreat]

You guys with residential auto start generators. Is your switch gears not able to load your generator during test runs?

The 80KW diesel generator at the chicken coops gets test loaded every week. Switch gear starts generator, lets it come up to speed and transfers, placing load on generator for about 15 minutes, then a 15 minute cool down before it shuts down generator. The switch is fast enough that the lights don't even blink unless I'm close to max draw. The computers/alarm system don't even register the switch.

But it got a 2 hour exercise Thursday night when the line fell in the neighbors woods. At 10pm. Load around 50 amps. Little birds+cold weather=light load.

They have no way to switch loads unless utility fails. Customers dont want to have to reset all their clocks once a week.....i work on units starting weekly for past 10 years and they run just fine. I dont see any issues with non load runs as they dont run very long (older units 12 minutes, newer units 5 minutes)

 

[Dakota_male]

I wouldn't worry if the generator is kept in a dry place with just running a gas engine. Outside with our weather swings they tend to sweat when it goes above freezing so warming the generator with some load is a good thing and to dry out the housing if it is contained in one. Running the diesel without loading can creat wet stacking. A new Diesel engine without load just glazes the cylinder walls and ring never seat properly.

 

[clemsonfor]

I ran it a few weeks ago as a maintence run, and I used it in the woods this weekend for power while putting a new roof on a deer stand. Yesterday I did an oil change for the first time in a few years. Maybe a dozen hours or so on it total.

 

[Looking4new]

I run the carb empty on my genny every time I shut it down. I find that if when I want to fire it up, I turn on the gas, then check the oil, choke it and pull it over one or two times half heartedly (never expecting it to start) then hit the Electric start. She fires right up.

 

[Rocky J]

Interesting point about the plugs - not what I would have expected. Then again, air cooled generators are tougher on plugs in general than most automotive applications.

Years ago when propane was more of an option on vehicles here, cold-start (re. vapourization) on those older systems below -30C was often an issue, but I suspect daugen wasn't near those temperatures.

Good point on the vacuum aspect. With propane my guess is there is less of a chance of the fuel being directly contaminated with water, but that is only a guess. I know my MC has a vacuum operated fuel petcock, I wonder if daugen's auto-gen is similar. My bike takes extra cranking after sitting all Winter, to prime the fuel line..... really need to move a MityVac up my Tools to Buy list....

Rgds, D.

Was there a reason people move away from the propane on the cars there in Canada, Propane prices? They are back to putting it on school buses and county gas powered pickups here. Public transportation is 100% Natural Gas . The Dairy north of me run there Semi tankers on methane gas from there own Digestor . The Interstate I65 has natural gas fueling station spaced out . We have gotten so many wind turbines in the last 10 years I doubt any body knows how many are here now, natural gas prices had to come down to compete with them to generate electricity.

 

[Industrial Toys]

If my (ASCO) switch transfers over in summer conditions, the genny may see a 300 watt load, IF the fridge is running. So, just by virtue of a transfer, doesn't mean you have any appreciable load.

Keeping a genny heated is an invitation for mice.

A heard about alternators that have a winding that is heated to keep moisture at bay. That is a great idea.

 

[daugen]

They have no way to switch loads unless utility fails. Customers dont want to have to reset all their clocks once a week.....i work on units starting weekly for past 10 years and they run just fine. I dont see any issues with non load runs as they dont run very long (older units 12 minutes, newer units 5 minutes)

I thought the whole idea of running the gen was to warm up the motor to bake off moisture both inside and out.
A load test tests the electric end and I suppose the motor under much greater load, but unless Generac sells a plug and play load module to
test the electric end, seems that test will come when the utility's power conks out. I was away for a week and came back today with the stove light flashing. Power went out for some reason, will find out from my neighbor for how long.
Whenever I lose power for real, in a storm, or something that will likely be extended, I load my gen down pretty well, considering I'm running
three hvac systems including one heat pump. So it gets a real workout during the summer and winter if the power goes out. What I need to do is test the voltage when under full load out of any interior receptacle. Easy to do and a good indicator that systems are up to snuff.