YM336D - Started knocking loud while tilling

clemsonfor · Mar 23, 2012

Neat 1500 said:
another thing i thought of was did you machine the crank? i dont remember reading that. it is possible that if it was done it may have not been machined properly.

yea he got it running. There was a later link to it running. I only watched the failed start but i remember others talking about it running.

Domush · Mar 24, 2012

Neat 1500 said:
another thing i thought of was did you machine the crank? i dont remember reading that. it is possible that if it was done it may have not been machined properly.

I didn't remove the engine at all, so the crank is still as is. When I have the bearing out I'll check the crank for roundness on #3. I'm beginning to wonder if it may be slightly out of round, which would be awful news.

Domush · Mar 24, 2012

To everyone who thought I am an idiot... You are so right!

Not sure how it happened, but I somehow managed to mix up the rod caps. The stamped numbers are now different! I'm nearly positive they were matching numbers when I removed them.

I'll be swapping them in a moment to verify. Here's hoping this is the issue.

clemsonfor · Mar 24, 2012

Glad to hear this not for damage sake but hopefullyy this is the cause of your problems and you can bolt it up and go for years to come.

Domush · Mar 24, 2012

That was it!

#1 and #3 caps were mixed up. I swapped them and now they both measure .003"clearance!

Now to button it up and adjust the injector timing

Domush · Mar 24, 2012

Car Doc said:
And you are 100 thousand % sure the caps are on right.

Winner of the keep asking until he triple checks award goes to car doc!

They were on the right direction, just not on the right rods :-o

By the way, the tabs on the bearings do line up on the same side on these, for future reference.

clemsonfor · Mar 24, 2012

So did you start it up does it run or you just have moved them and putting on the oil plate/cover? Hope there was no damage done by them, on wrong. Did you not say that it just shut off on the test run i hope i dont remember you saying it bound up as you are clearly spinning it over.

Also do you still need to be worried about the uneven wear on the old bearing like CD mentioned?

Domush · Mar 24, 2012

This just isn't meant to be...

I started it up and it immediately blew a head gasket. Huge amounts of pressure built up in the radiator, making the hoses spray coolant and I can see bubbles coming out of the gasket below injector #1.

Head not flat enough? Bolts were torqued to spec. Head only had a .004 variation, which was Max spec, but still in spec.

Bah

I'll post a video later tonight.

kenmac · Mar 24, 2012

did you remove the head & try to use the same gasket ??..

According to the book the specs. are

1 st pass.... 43 ft lbs

2nd pass...87 ft lbs

final pass.... 116- 130 lbs

there is also a tightening sequence in the book

Garybake · Mar 24, 2012

The head was overtemped and warped before you(Oil Sludge). That was clear in your pictures. If it was not machined flat on your tear down, I would not expect a different result. You previously stated that water pump was leaking so I suspect pressure build then(after rebuild). You will need to follow that up (water pump seal) as well head surface so it does not run low on coolant and overheat again. Good Luck!:thumbsup:
Glad you found caps wrong I wondered as you stated they were factory stamped and also stated you marked them on removal... Good Job Car Doc!
Do not get frustrated! You did great under the condiions(weather, underneath tractor, etc.) You will be plowing in no time given your history of effort.

clemsonfor · Mar 24, 2012

Or the valves were not right? but i guess if they did not open right y0ou would of bent rods?

Neat 1500 · Mar 25, 2012

oh man, what a bugger... by the sound of it she leaked compression into the cooling system. prolly done a H/G.

Domush · Mar 25, 2012

Here is the video of the start up after swapping the rod caps. I had already primed the injectors, which is why it starts so quickly this time.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPimVZDs4mg]Yanmar 336D - Head gasket blows at start up after rebuild - YouTube[/ame]

The injector timing was only barely off. I ended up usoing two shims, which was the same number as the old shims, but these were new, so they laid much more flat (the old ones had some old crimps in them).

All three injectoin pumps pump at exactly 25BTDC, as is spec. It was a lot easier once I took a screw driver to the belt pulley and found the timing notches.

kenmac said:
did you remove the head & try to use the same gasket ??

I wish, then I wouldn't be out $65+shipping.

1st pass.... 43 ft lbs
2nd pass...87 ft lbs
Final pass.... 116- 130 lbs

Did that. Torqued to 124lbs as I wasn't too sure as to the accuracy of the torque wrench.

there is also a tightening sequence in the book

Followed it to the bolt.

I have a feeling it was the #1 cylinder liner, as it is now slightly lower than the two new ones. Not really sure what I can do about it, though. Sand the tops of the two new ones until they all match?

Seeing as I'll have the head off, I guess I'll go ahead and get it flattened by the machine shop. I was really hoping to avoid that, as I didn't want to ruin the exhaust manifold bolts trying to get it off. They are nubs at best at this point (corrosion).

Did I mention this sucks and how disappointed I am

- Yet another example of "If you don't have the time or money to fix it right this time, where will you get it when you have to redo it all?"

At least now I'll be able to have the injectors tested, seeing as they'll be off.. again.

clemsonfor · Mar 25, 2012

Do you think that it would solve it to get a new liner for the #1(or whatever cyl still has the old liner?) cyl? If the new liners are too tall are you talking about knocking them in more or grinding them down? How will machining the head solve the problem of the liner protruding out of the head more than the old ones? Just curious? You seem to know way more than me here but im interested and following this so that i can know the process.

kenmac · Mar 25, 2012

I don't know how close to the valves are to the pistons with stock head. But, Remember,, when you cut / shave the head it puts the valves closer to the piston

clemsonfor · Mar 25, 2012

They must be close casue didnt he say the decomp was misadjusted and it caused a valve to slam into a piston?? Maybe it wasent him but you hear dont use the decomp valve to stop it casue it can hit a piston, but what dont make sense is why would they hit in that scenario but not when your cranking it?

Sorry no Hijack meant.

KubotainNH · Mar 26, 2012

Domush said:
Seeing as I'll have the head off, I guess I'll go ahead and get it flattened by the machine shop. I was really hoping to avoid that, as I didn't want to ruin the exhaust manifold bolts trying to get it off. They are nubs at best at this point (corrosion).

Ugh, and I thought you may have had it with the cap mixup. As for the bolts, you can grind the heads off, remove the manifold and then weld some nuts on to what is left of the studs. Or have the machine shop do it. BTW, are you sure your torque wrench is accurate? The cheapo clicker style seam to be pretty bad. I had one and replaced a car head using it. I could hear the anti-freeze squirting into the cylinder after shutting off the car. I bought a decent flex beam style torque wrench and found the clicker one was way way off. After tightening to the new wrenches spec all was good. Some tools you don't buy on the cheap. Live and learn.

California · Mar 26, 2012

KubotainNH said:
are you sure your torque wrench is accurate? The cheapo clicker style seam to be pretty bad.

I paid $10 for mine at HF. It even came with a certificate saying it has been verified by comparison to a tool that is certified to meet Mil specs, or something like that.

Surprisingly, this cheap tool matches the two beam torque wrenches that I always verify it against, during each project. (I'm cheap, but not particularly trusting.

)

KubotainNH · Mar 26, 2012

California said:
I paid $10 for mine at HF. It even came with a certificate saying it has been verified by comparison to a tool that is certified to meet Mil specs, or something like that.

Surprisingly, this cheap tool matches the two beam torque wrenches that I always verify it against, during each project. (I'm cheap, but not particularly trusting. )

Well you lucked out.... :laughing:

Mine is adjustable with a nut on the end. I set it as far as I could and it was still 50 lbs or so off. It is now being used as a lug wrench. :thumbsup:

Car Doc · Mar 26, 2012

Just for conversation but my Snap-On digital torque wrench was well over $400 has a gps in it or something because it measures degrees of swing as in torque to yield (crap bolts) bolts, its 1/2 inch drive and does inch pounds, Nm, sae, degrees, answers to hey you well not that but is aircraft certified also. I trust it also is a buzzer and a vibrator in the handle when torque is reached and tells you the exact value you stopped at