X10 Upgrade

[rekees4300]

X10 is an electrical protocol that's been around for 40 years. Previous owner of our property installed it to control (on/off) 4 flood lights on a shed 150 feet from house. Lately those lights have been randomly turning themselves on. Cause is unknown. Have decided to investigate newer, more reliable technologies to replace the X10. Contacted Smarthome - Home Automation Systems, Products, Kits, Hubs & Ideas and they recommend their "Insteon" protocol.

Would appreciate recommendations on "Insteon" or other methods to replace X10 ... TIA

 

[dog13]

I had a few X10 devices, now relegated to a drawer, and now have 30+ insteon devices. I'm running an ISY994i controller with my setup. The ISY has been rock solid and the insteon devices are night and day better than the X10s, at least in our house. I've also integrated it with the Alexa skill and use that to control scenes outside the normal time based on/off. Our favorite is at Christmas time, we set up a scene so we can tell the Echo "turn on Christmas lights" and all the lights come on without having to plug them in, flip a switch etc.

 

[Sigarms]

I had a few X10 devices, now relegated to a drawer, and now have 30+ insteon devices. I'm running an ISY994i controller with my setup. The ISY has been rock solid and the insteon devices are night and day better than the X10s, at least in our house. I've also integrated it with the Alexa skill and use that to control scenes outside the normal time based on/off. Our favorite is at Christmas time, we set up a scene so we can tell the Echo "turn on Christmas lights" and all the lights come on without having to plug them in, flip a switch etc.

FYI

EVERYTHING you say is being recorded in your own home. No thanks...

 

[rekees4300]

I had a few X10 devices, now relegated to a drawer, and now have 30+ insteon devices. I'm running an ISY994i controller with my setup. The ISY has been rock solid and the insteon devices are night and day better than the X10s, at least in our house. I've also integrated it with the Alexa skill and use that to control scenes outside the normal time based on/off. Our favorite is at Christmas time, we set up a scene so we can tell the Echo "turn on Christmas lights" and all the lights come on without having to plug them in, flip a switch etc.

Sounds like "insteon" might be a good solution. All I want to do is turn those 4 flood lights on/off from a switch in the house AND from a switch in the shed like a standard 3-way wired setup. The challenge is that the house and shed have separate power systems (each has its own electric company power meter and circuit breaker panel). I assume that's why the previous owner installed the X10? :confused3: The X10 in the house is the transmitter (aka controller) that sends an on/off signal to the shed switch (aka responder) that actually turns the 4 flood lights on/off. I also assume the on/off signal travels from the house transmitter/controller -> house circuit breaker panel -> power company's transformer -> shed circuit breaker panel -> shed switch/responder which turns the lights on/off. :confused2:

Smarthome.com sent an email recommending a device called SwitchLinc Relay 2477S Remote Control On Off Switch White | Smarthome but, since I'm not a licensed electrician, its owner's manual is virtually incomprehensible to me http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2477s.pdf. Would I need to purchase two of the 2477S devices?

FYI

EVERYTHING you say is being recorded in your own home. No thanks...

Ditto that ... I like Amazon but like my privacy much more. Alexa will NEVER be invited into our home! :thumbdown:

 

[Diggin It]

Sounds like "insteon" might be a good solution. All I want to do is turn those 4 flood lights on/off from a switch in the house AND from a switch in the shed like a standard 3-way wired setup. The challenge is that the house and shed have separate power systems (each has its own electric company power meter and circuit breaker panel). I assume that's why the previous owner installed the X10? :confused3: The X10 in the house is the transmitter (aka controller) that sends an on/off signal to the shed switch (aka responder) that actually turns the 4 flood lights on/off. I also assume the on/off signal travels from the house transmitter/controller -> house circuit breaker panel -> power company's transformer -> shed circuit breaker panel -> shed switch/responder which turns the lights on/off. :confused2:

I don't see how that would have ever worked with X-10. The system uses a very low amplitude Power Line Control signal that is easily disrupted by interference. Users typically have to install signal amplifiers or repeaters, phase couplers and filters to get it to work well with a single household.

There is a device that sends an RF (radio) signal which may have helped. There has to be a controller somewhere in the system since none of the switch or outlets units have any sort of memory.

 

[Diggin It]

There is an X10 users forum out there, but I don't know how they feel about posting those kinds of links here.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I still have a pile of X-10 stuff. It's been turning on 10 or so outside lights via a sundowner now for decades. At bedtime, I give a command to shut them down.

I would go with a Z-Wave system. I have not so far on account of cost and I don't understand that gateway stuff.

 

[ultrarunner]

Still have a couple of X10 stuff... never a problem.

At one time I would watch neighbors homes... I could turn key lights from my vantage point in two homes... never an issue...

Another neighbor wanted to try the same but was on a different transformer and no luck...

 

[Industrial Toys]

There actually was an X-10 two way version, that failed in the marketplace. Whenever I promoted or suggested X-10 to customers or friends, it never worked, so I quickly stopped doing that.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ They've just come out with a Hub version you can trigger from a cell phone but the reviews are mixed even from long time, experienced X-10 users.

The original company went belly up and everything stopped for a while. Another company bought it but some things were lost in the deal and it isn't quite the same. Some of what used to work doesn't any more.

 

[AndyMA]

Sounds like "insteon" might be a good solution. All I want to do is turn those 4 flood lights on/off from a switch in the house AND from a switch in the shed like a standard 3-way wired setup. The challenge is that the house and shed have separate power systems (each has its own electric company power meter and circuit breaker panel). I assume that's why the previous owner installed the X10? :confused3: The X10 in the house is the transmitter (aka controller) that sends an on/off signal to the shed switch (aka responder) that actually turns the 4 flood lights on/off. I also assume the on/off signal travels from the house transmitter/controller -> house circuit breaker panel -> power company's transformer -> shed circuit breaker panel -> shed switch/responder which turns the lights on/off. :confused2:

Smarthome.com sent an email recommending a device called SwitchLinc Relay 2477S Remote Control On Off Switch White | Smarthome but, since I'm not a licensed electrician, its owner's manual is virtually incomprehensible to me http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2477s.pdf. Would I need to purchase two of the 2477S devices?


:

Having used X10 since the late 70's and currently Insteon & ZWave it's very hard to believe the X10 signal which uses the power line as a carrier can pass through a transformer. It can't usually make it through a sub panel without a bridge. The Issy 994i has an X10 transmitter available.

Andy

 

[MossRoad]

Sounds like "insteon" might be a good solution. All I want to do is turn those 4 flood lights on/off from a switch in the house AND from a switch in the shed like a standard 3-way wired setup. The challenge is that the house and shed have separate power systems (each has its own electric company power meter and circuit breaker panel). I assume that's why the previous owner installed the X10? :confused3: The X10 in the house is the transmitter (aka controller) that sends an on/off signal to the shed switch (aka responder) that actually turns the 4 flood lights on/off. I also assume the on/off signal travels from the house transmitter/controller -> house circuit breaker panel -> power company's transformer -> shed circuit breaker panel -> shed switch/responder which turns the lights on/off. :confused2:

Smarthome.com sent an email recommending a device called SwitchLinc Relay 2477S Remote Control On Off Switch White | Smarthome but, since I'm not a licensed electrician, its owner's manual is virtually incomprehensible to me http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2477s.pdf. Would I need to purchase two of the 2477S devices?





Ditto that ... I like Amazon but like my privacy much more. Alexa will NEVER be invited into our home! :thumbdown:

As others have mentioned.... I'm surprised your X10 stuff will work between buildings in separate meters. Are you sure the X10 controller you were using wasn't using RF to signal a receiver in the other building?

Just out of curiosity, do you know which controller model and receiver model you're using with the X10?

 

[dog13]

The 2477s is a dual band device, it has RF capability as well as powerline. Depending on distance, that can be a good option for the outbuilding on a separate power feed. I have some of the 2477s in my config, and agree the manual can be a little daunting as it covers pretty much every electrical configuration you could encounter when installing the device....

To make it work like a 3 way switch between the house and the outbuilding the part that isn't clear in the manual is the house 2477 would not have a load directly attached to it as the load will be triggered remotely via signal to the switch in the outbuilding. Under that scenario you'd wire the house 2477 for hot/neutral/ground and cap the load wire. The outbuilding would then be wired as a normal switch with the lights attached to the load. Then configure the 2477s as controller and responder. If you have a hub you can also set schedules so they come on/off relative to the sun or in response to other sensors (ie motion activated).

....I don't doubt the recording capability of the echos - that's part of why it's in the kitchen where it can listen to us argue about what to make for dinner and keep track of the groceries. I did do some packet analysis for fun on the echo, and mine is quiet from a network perspective when it's not interacted with. No idea though if there are any keywords which might make it start tracking (like the old Carnivore email monitor!)

 

[Diggin It]

^^ There are supposed to be keywords and they claim it only retains a few seconds of voice, but I've read of cases where things were subpoenaed in legal matters. I'll never have one that's for sure.

 

[dog13]

There is onboard buffer caching of voice info which i believe was recovered via a forensic tool as part of an investigation. Had not seen reports of transmission of the data, but i don't doubt the capability exists and would not be surprised if it couldn't be activated with the right warrant/security letter/agency (maybe via specific firmware auto update)....
The "always on" digital assistants (google now, Siri) have make me more nervous as the phone is always with me, and always tracking location as well.

 

[Diggin It]

We're getting off the X-10 thing, but I have location services on my phones turned off. I can turn it on if need be, but I never have to.

 

[MossRoad]

Yes, you can minimize what location data is available to apps by turning off location services, but you can't turn off ping logging of your phone as long as it's showing you have cell service available. You can turn off your cell service, but as soon as you turn it on, you're location is logged again by the carrier.

 

[rekees4300]

I still have a pile of X-10 stuff. It's been turning on 10 or so outside lights via a sundowner now for decades. At bedtime, I give a command to shut them down.

I would go with a Z-Wave system. I have not so far on account of cost and I don't understand that gateway stuff.

I don't know anything about Z-Wave except that it MAY be a viable protocol alternative to Insteon? Home Automation Languages: Z-wave vs Zigbee vs Insteon

 

[rekees4300]

Having used X10 since the late 70's and currently Insteon & ZWave it's very hard to believe the X10 signal which uses the power line as a carrier can pass through a transformer. It can't usually make it through a sub panel without a bridge. The Issy 994i has an X10 transmitter available.

Andy

I'm not an electrician. The signal may be going through a "sub panel" in the back yard instead of the transformer? :confused3: All I know is that the X10 has been working for 18 years until a few months ago when the flood lights started mysteriously turning themselves on. I'm going to replace X10 with either Insteon or Z-Wave.

 

[rekees4300]

As others have mentioned.... I'm surprised your X10 stuff will work between buildings in separate meters. Are you sure the X10 controller you were using wasn't using RF to signal a receiver in the other building?

Just out of curiosity, do you know which controller model and receiver model you're using with the X10?

I'm sure it's not RF. The shed doesn't like RF since it 150 feet from house and has double metal walls. The controller in the house is Leviton Cat. No. 6319-1W. Don't know the shed responder number. Contacted Leviton about the 6319-1W they said it has been DISCONTINUED and they do not make a replacement.