Worth doing hay?

[Hay Dude]

Yes. Maybe just a dream. Maybe I’ll make a few calls to the agricultural department just to see price of fertilizer, seed. What they’d financially help with. Government is wanting people to farm but little incentive . Depending what they’d say, maybe did talk to a few potential buyers. Go from there. I’m not interested in taking up the whole summer. Normally it wouldn’t bother me. But I am working half the time. Then during the fall months I’m working 100% of the time. Leaving me with not a whole lot of things me in the run of a year. There’s one field I would be interested in doing , it is 35-40 acres. Maybe a mini bailer and few customers would satisfy an itch to try it.

You might not want to hear this, and I encourage all people to pursue their dreams, but if you are already wondering about assistance from your government, I’d probably stop right there.

See if you can make this work on your own first.

Mini balers are not really designed for 35 acres. They are designed for a few acres. If you are doing 10-100 acres, I’d be looking at a solid typical 4x5 round baler. You can always make the bales smaller and lighter if that’s what your customers want. Your 50HP tractor will run it if it’s mostly on flat ground.

 

[LouNY]

I never had to do loose hay, fortunately. We were feeding 40-60 milking cows when I started, it was small squares with 90% picked off the ground and stacked on a wagon then unloaded and stacked in a mow to be feed out during the winter. That was useing a WD Allis Chalmers on a semi-mounted cyclebar mower, then our first conditioner was a steel rollered Meyers, after the first year that mower was converted with a pto extension and a rear hitch so we could pull the conditioner right behind the mower. Thinking back on those days I would say that many days 4-5 acres was a full days work between milkings. The baling was done by a Farmall 400 starting in 1956, When we finished mowing and were going to bale the WD would get unhooked from the mower to haul hay wagons. As time went on and the Farmall 560 got added to the farms fleet it became the baling tractor and baler got a bale thrower added to it. Then the first haybine arrived (cycle bar and intergrated with one steel and one rubber roller) which could be worked with the 400 but the 560 was much nicer on. The little AC was still being often used to haul wagons, along with the new IH 656 Hydro (mid 60's). Still using a kicker baler and hand stacking in the mowes. A 1000 bale day was a lot of work especially when it was done from after 10AM and before 5PM (finished milking and barn chores and before starting milking). More tractors and equipment got added on as the years went by along with more cows we were milking a 100 head by 1968. Late 1968 saw the addition of the Ford 8000 tractor. After that will considerable equipment and ground aqusistion the milking herd grow to 120 cows and lots of tractors and equipment. By this time much of the hay was done as haylage, a lot less labor/higher quality feed. The digestiblity and protein was much higher because of the earlier season harvesting (not having to get it dry, just well wilted)... The last square baling for milk cows was around 2012, they still do some square bales but most everything is round bales now days for beef cows (100+ brood cows).

doing some haylage, neighbors barn and silos in the background (3rd or 4th cutting)
View attachment rear view chopping.jpg

Square baling a few years ago.

 

[bridge4]

I miss stacking on wagons. That is the best times. Some days couple thousand all hay for a farm milking 60 head. The hood old days

I tell him I can do 3 wagons and then I am done for the day. 600 bales solo in 90degrees with the Sun wears me out! So he cuts the field into 1/3's or so and we usually do two wagons at a time. On a good year can get around 1700-1800k bales with 2nd cut included. All square bales with a new holland baler. Luckily he has a kicker and is pretty good at aiming it for me.

@LouNY 3-4 cuts! If we have a wonderful summer we get 3. Two is the normal where I am.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Your 50HP tractor will run it if it’s mostly on flat ground.

I don't get the hype with HP and round baler, its not that heavy at all especially dry hay... there is no problem going up a hill with a 4x5 bale in the bailer you might not go up as quick as you like but it will go up no problem and you can even carry a bale on the FEL as well. If we are talking PTO Hp that's even easier, a round baler take less Hp to run the a small square one.

 

[Hay Dude]

I don't get the hype with HP and round baler, its not that heavy at all especially dry hay... there is no problem going up a hill with a 4x5 bale in the bailer you might not go up as quick as you like but it will go up no problem and you can even carry a bale on the FEL as well. If we are talking PTO Hp that's even easier, a round baler take less Hp to run the a small square one.

I was referring to going down the hill.
I had a lightweight Kubota 70HP tractor and with a full bale in the chamber, it would try to push me down the hill.

 

[Rockbadchild]

I was referring to going down the hill.
I had a 70HP tractor and with a full bale in the chamber, it would try to push me down the hill.

Ha I see, I assume you where talking about uphill, and I wanted to clear that up for ops since these hp requirement are often hype up.... must of been a hell of a hill.... but yeah grass can be crazy slippery...

 

[LouNY]

I tell him I can do 3 wagons and then I am done for the day. 600 bales solo in 90degrees with the Sun wears me out! So he cuts the field into 1/3's or so and we usually do two wagons at a time. On a good year can get around 1700-1800k bales with 2nd cut included. All square bales with a new holland baler. Luckily he has a kicker and is pretty good at aiming it for me.

@LouNY 3-4 cuts! If we have a wonderful summer we get 3. Two is the normal where I am.

Back when all we did was dry bales two would be all.
For haylage, especially with grass hay blends for dairy cows the highest protein and digestibility is just before the stem buds out. Because it doesn't have to dry all the way down the first cutting can come off much sooner in the year. Only a 2 day window in the late spring works good, cut one day chop the next, usually doubling up the windrows to save time and money.
Getting the first cut early means a lot less tonnage per cutting but better quality and more cuttings.

 

[Hay Dude]

Ha I see, I assume you where talking about uphill, and I wanted to clear that up for ops since these hp requirement are often hype up.... must of been a hell of a hill.... but yeah grass can be crazy slippery...

All rolling hills where I live.
That’s why round baling is not the way to go here.
Big Square bales just fall on the ground with a thump and don’t move 99.5% of the time. Once in a while one will tumble if baling sideways on a hill.

In MY area, round bales must be dumped on a flat spot, or risk of rolling away. This doubles or triples baling time because of extra time needed to drive to a flat spot.

 

[LouNY]

I don't get the hype with HP and round baler, its not that heavy at all especially dry hay... there is no problem going up a hill with a 4x5 bale in the bailer you might not go up as quick as you like but it will go up no problem and you can even carry a bale on the FEL as well. If we are talking PTO Hp that's even easier, a round baler take less Hp to run the a small square one.

I could square bale with an Allis WD on flat ground or moderate slopes, there is no way in h*ll I would try that with a round baler.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

If your doing small squares, and your customers aren't picking it up out of the field ... You also need a place to store it covered ... 4X4 rounds or bigger don't have that extra requirement, plus no hands!

 

[Snezzy]

"gone for three week rotations" ?? Yikes! That sure sounds like you'll need a firm hand on the religion tiller so you can persuade your favorite deity to schedule weather for hay-making. Wouldn't you be better off putting up some appropriate fencing and running cattle instead? Set aside some of the property for hay if you want, but have someone else do the haying, and trade you some round bales for your cattle for the winter.

 

[Rockbadchild]

All rolling hills where I live.
That’s why round baling is not the way to go here.
Big Square bales just fall on the ground with a thump and don’t move 99.5% of the time. Once in a while one will tumble if baling sideways on a hill

lol I just had a mental picture of round bales rolling full blast down a hill. That's one think I've never consider. I have a small hill towards my creek but its only 15/20 feet high slop over 60ft so it's not too bad 15% or so.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Neighbor had round bale roll off into my fence, fence stopped it, but broke one wire, and stretched two more ...

Kinda between where I am and he is mowing ... Not a lot of flat here in this part of Missouri ...

Since I have no need or use for the hay myself, I just cut mine down to be a "big lawn" ... 14 acres ... Just not worth the hassle to me to hay ...

 

[Hay Dude]

Neighbor had round bale roll off into my fence, fence stopped it, but broke one wire, and stretched two more ...

Kinda between where I am and he is mowing ... Not a lot of flat here in this part of Missouri ...

View attachment 5293323

Since I have no need or use for the hay myself, I just cut mine down to be a "big lawn" ... 14 acres ... Just not worth the hassle to me to hay ...

I’d be making hay on that. Just sayin’…..
Let your neighbor hay it!!!!


This thread needs to be moved to “haying” forum

 

[Rockbadchild]

I could square bale with an Allis WD on flat ground or moderate slopes, there is no way in h*ll I would try that with a round baler.

I have said two different things, PTO hp required to run a round baler vs a square and pulling hp ... keep in mind Ops has a 50hp tractor

I have both square and round baler 4x5 and 4x4 ... my tractor is a 60hp... square baler take more PTO hp to run then a round baler (at least for my balers). It's takes a lot more hp to start my square baler then the round and while running I see the HP undulating with the flywheel/counter weight at low RPM (a square baler moves a lot of weight, longitudinally, a round baler drum is heavy but has a lower center of mass from its axis), even if I stop the PTO and restart it with a full round bale I don't notice any resistance even at low RPM... now yes a round baler is a lot heavier the a square baler but I don't foresee a 50hp tractor having difficulty, unless he has big hills ...

 

[CH4Ohio]

Lou's pic above and another person's comment both suggest having someone on the wagon behind the baler WHILE USING A BALE "KICKER" / "EJECTOR" / "THROWER".

Never seen that done. What's the life expectancy on that job? Would hate to get hit with a flying bale. Is this is a common practice? The pan throwers launch a bale like a bomb -- I assume the guy on the wagon hides behind the front rack till one lands and then does his best to stack them up before another goes airborne?

I've only seen Kickers / ejectors / throwers used with caged wagons and you just kinda aim for the empty spots and let them pile up. Have to sort it out at the barn when you open one side for access and start digging through the mess to get them unloaded.

If you have the "luxury" of having a person on the wagon behind the baler, seems like it would be much easier to just use a chute and let the baler push the hay to the stacker on the wagon.

 

[ultrarunner]

A year with 3 cuttings is a year the old farmers will talk about 20 years later.

The rain isn’t predictable… one of the reason for only 25 producing milk cows is to be self sustaining with 2 cuttings.

There have been years with a single cut where the rain just kept coming…

The only thing taking precedent over Sunday service is hay ready to come in and a storm on the way…

 

[Shawn T. W.]

We also gotta remember that not all "50 HP" tractors are equal ...

My Kubota Grand L is 52 Gross HP, 50 Net HP, 42 PTO HP ... And weighs 4,200 Lbs ... And that is with a cab! So fairly light weight!

On uneven hillside it definitely knows the 1100 Lb finish mower is back there!

 

[Hay Dude]

What we used in our small square baling days. “EZ Trail Hay Basket”
Gets rid of need for helper on wagon and bale kicker. Bales are pushed up a chute and fall into basket.

Take it to the barn and dump it. Go back and bale another load.

 

[CH4Ohio]

What we used in our small square baling days.
Gets rid of need for helper on wagon and bale kicker

View attachment 5293388

Take it to the barn and dump it. Go back and bale another load.

View attachment 5293389

Yep! That's a "bale basket". No need for the "Kicker" and about the same result. Easier to empty, in my opinion but might be a little less capacity . . . not sure. Another popular option.

Friend uses one. He has people pick up hay in the field. He just dumps it at the edge of the field and his customers deal with the stack of hay and load from there. Kinda best of both worlds.