Work Question Regarding Call Back and Overtime.

[ultrarunner]

After college I worked about a year in a Union Shop... great experience and everyone knew the rules... just needed to look it up or ask the steward when in doubt.

For 10 years I had my own company which I still have on a greatly reduced scale.

For 25 years I was salaried exempt management holding a Director Title which was eliminated.

Since the merger 9 months ago my position was reclassified as hourly with time card and we are are not a Union Hospital.

My question is regarding Call Back and Overtime as an hourly employee.

We have had a rash of early morning hour attempted break ins (2) and a weekend emergency Boiler repair... over the last two weeks.

The second break in I actually caught the guy... followed the trail of blood from where he cut himself after smashing a window and crawling through at 1 am on Sunday... the police, clean up and boarding/securing the area took 4 hours... the steam boiler was more involved as I had to replace a pump Sunday so as the surgery schedule would not be impacted for Monday...

The Hospital Admin called me in and praised me for my efforts BUT said paying me overtime is a problem... believe me... I would rather have stayed in bed instead of apprehending a 3rd strike petty felon or cancelled my family plans for Sunday fixing the boiler.

Anyway... going forward... anytime I work outside my 5 am to 1:30 pm daily shift will have to be taken away from my next scheduled shift... so if I have 5 hours of Sunday Call In... my regular 8 hour Monday shift will be reduced by 5 hours to 3 hours... making it 5 am to 8 am...

Sounds odd to me but this is the way it has to be... having no experience working hourly outside of a Union Shop... is this typical?

For 25 years... I had plenty of Call... but being salaried it was simply my job... no matter when or how often... I was expected to manage my own time and get the job done.

Have to admit I hate spending time in front of the time clock waiting to clock back from mandatory meal break...

Admin's goal is Perfect Time Cards... but I don't see how this is possible for hourly engineering without 24/7 onside engineering presence.

Corp has said it is the responsibility of salaried managers to respond to after hour events... but 100% of the management is female and they bluntly refuse to respond to any after hours event or they live a great distance away... I live close and have been doing the response for 25 years.... the only thing that changed is now there is a time card record of it.

Post Script... HR says I am under no obligation to respond outside my shift and only those receiving On-Call pay are required to be available... and my position does not qualify... however I am the only local contact for Police, Fire, Security, etc...

 

[fried1765]

After college I worked about a year in a Union Shop... great experience and everyone knew the rules... just needed to look it up or ask the steward when in doubt.

For 10 years I had my own company which I still have on a greatly reduced scale.

For 25 years I was salaried exempt management holding a Director Title which was eliminated.

Since the merger 9 months ago my position was reclassified as hourly with time card and we are are not a Union Hospital.

My question is regarding Call Back and Overtime as an hourly employee.

We have had a rash of early morning hour attempted break ins (2) and a weekend emergency Boiler repair... over the last two weeks.

The second break in I actually caught the guy... followed the trail of blood from where he cut himself after smashing a window and crawling through at 1 am on Sunday... the police, clean up and boarding/securing the area took 4 hours... the steam boiler was more involved as I had to replace a pump Sunday so as the surgery schedule would not be impacted for Monday...

The Hospital Admin called me in and praised me for my efforts BUT said paying me overtime is a problem... believe me... I would rather have stayed in bed instead of apprehending a 3rd strike petty felon or cancelled my family plans for Sunday fixing the boiler.

Anyway... going forward... anytime I work outside my 5 am to 1:30 pm daily shift will have to be taken away from my next scheduled shift... so if have 5 hours of Sunday Call In... my regular 8 hour Monday shift will be reduced by 5 hours to 3 hours... making it 5 am to 8 am...

Sounds odd to me but this is the way it has to be... having no experience working hourly outside of a Union Shop... is this typical?

For 25 years... I had plenty of Call... but being salaried it was simply my job... no matter when or how often... I was expected to manage my own time and get the job done.

Have to admit I hate spending time in front of the time clock waiting to clock back from mandatory meal break...

Admin's goal is Perfect Time Cards... but I don't see how this is possible for hourly engineering without 24/7 onside engineering presence.

Corp has said it is the responsibility of salaried managers to respond to after hour events... but 100% of the management is female and they bluntly refuse to respond to any after hours event or they live a great distance away... I live close and have been doing the response for 25 years.... the only thing that changed is now there is a time card record of it.

Post Script... HR says I am under no obligation to respond outside my shift and only those receiving On-Call pay are required to be available... an my position does not qualify... however I am the only local contact for Police, Fire, Security, etc...

Retiring soon ????

 

[PJSprog]

It seems both your employer and your manager have put you in an untenable position. It's not your responsibility, yet you are expected to do it nonetheless? Not sure what state labor laws are like where you are, but I have a reasonable suspicion that federal laws may be a little stretched regarding your overtime situation.

I don't see a clean solution to your problem, honestly. Your company policy seems at odds with your manager's practice, and you are left to clean it up. Looks like you can either continue being the glue that holds it all together, or you can muddy the waters by forcing others to do things the right way (as per the company policy, anyway). That, of course, won't make you any new friends in management, which I'm sure you already know.

This type of situation is why I no longer work in the aerospace industry. I refused to play those silly games, and was let go at the first layoff opportunity.

 

[jaxs]

For 25 years I was salaried exempt management holding a Director Title which was eliminated.

Since the merger 9 months ago my position was reclassified as hourly with time card and we are are not a Union Hospital.

My question is regarding Call Back and Overtime as an hourly employee.

Post Script... HR says I am under no obligation to respond outside my shift and only those receiving On-Call pay are required to be available... an my position does not qualify... however I am the only local contact for Police, Fire, Security, etc...

So,doesn't that answer your question(s)?
If you want advice,here it is. If you would like a nice fat bonus at retirement(which appear's to be soon),document,document then document times and work performed. When faced with threat of a face off with labor officials they are bound to lose,corporate will cut the check for all the earned overtime and on call supplement pay. Yes,even if the weekly hours total 40 hours after manipulating your hours,it is considered over time pay rate.

 

[ultrarunner]

Retiring soon ????

The retirement plan was frozen many years ago... under the new employer there is a match of 50% of the first 6% of employee contribution...

Years ago we had a decent plan... it took 8 years to vest... management changed just before I had 4 years so I was 20% vested... it bumped along with no match for many years.

It is something I think about... but find it hard to walk away from the facility I was part of when the concrete was being poured... so much of me is in the place and I love the patients.

You probably are right... just too set to change.

 

[Industrial Toys]

It seems to me that your only problem is that you are too nice. They made the rules. Let them fall flat on their face, by those rules.

In this country/province you would have it made with current labor laws.

 

[ultrarunner]

It seems both your employer and your manager have put you in an untenable position. It's not your responsibility, yet you are expected to do it nonetheless? Not sure what state labor laws are like where you are, but I have a reasonable suspicion that federal laws may be a little stretched regarding your overtime situation.

I don't see a clean solution to your problem, honestly. Your company policy seems at odds with your manager's practice, and you are left to clean it up. Looks like you can either continue being the glue that holds it all together, or you can muddy the waters by forcing others to do things the right way (as per the company policy, anyway). That, of course, won't make you any new friends in management, which I'm sure you already know.

This type of situation is why I no longer work in the aerospace industry. I refused to play those silly games, and was let go at the first layoff opportunity.

I'm good a filling in the gaps and putting out fires... something I think corp doesn't understand...

I already muddy the waters once... purely unintentional... we have assigned on line learning... one was providing excellent customer service regarding patients, doctors, etc...

Customer Service was ALWAYS are strong suit being a stand alone community hospital... if a patient had a billing question, the clerk that prepared the bill would go over it with them in person... of if a Doctor needed a special instrument for surgery... I would get it...

Now, we are directed to give the patient a 800 number to call a billing office in another State... had an old gentleman with broken English come in... he had a letter his grand daughter wrote that was never answered but he keeps getting collection notices...

HR was in and asked if I had any questions after they verified open enrollment... I mentioned the irony of the online Customer Service Training and then having to tell patients all we can do is refer them to an 800 number... well, my one remark caused a whirlwind... the Hospital Administrator came to me asking why I went over her head and why she got a call from compliance... I said I had documented it to her and had simply told HR that corp billing was dropping the ball...

 

[Snobdds]

When something breaks, just don't come in. Let the policies work and let the chip fall for manangement where they lie.

Corporations ran by new MBA's only know how to do one thing, paper manage. As long a a piece of paper has all the metrics they deem important are met, they're happy...even if everything is falling apart.

Business schools are ruining corporate america.

 

[ultrarunner]

It seems to me that your only problem is that you are too nice. They made the rules. Let them fall flat on their face, by those rules.

In this country/province you would have it made with current labor laws.

I have been accused of that before...

The Hospital Housekeeping is outsourced to a small local company and we are their biggest account... they have been with us for 24 years...

As part of the transition, accounts payable was moved far away to corporate headquarters.

The janitorial company which was always paid on the first business day of each month had not been paid for two months...

I had been over House Keeping as Facility Director...

A group of the Housekeepers came to me saying they had not been paid were walking off the job... not good.

I convinced them to stay promising to look into to it and they were skeptical until I said if they did not have their back pay by next Tuesday, I would make it good.

Anyway... what a nightmare with the result nothing had changed by that following Tuesday... so I went to my bank and gave each of them an advance from my own money... $5500 in total... these ladies had rent to pay, food, medicine... etc.

You would have thought I had just launched a class action lawsuit against my employer when word got out...

The end result is word got to Corp that I had paid them... by the end of the week the checks had arrived by courier and all the housekeepers paid me back the following day.

Corp didn't get it.. I had given my word to the housekeepers and I keep my word.

Thankfully that matter has been resolved but I am continually getting calls from vendors... some 4 or 5 months waiting for payment...

Before merger, I could simply walk over to accounts payable and call the vendor saying the check will go out this week or the reason for the delay... tremendous impact when people know your are a person of your word... because when it is all said and done business is about relationships.

 

[ultrarunner]

When something breaks, just don't come in. Let the policies work and let the chip fall for manangement where they lie.

Corporations ran by new MBA's only know how to do one thing, paper manage. As long a a piece of paper has all the metrics they deem important are met, they're happy...even if everything is falling apart.

Business schools are ruining corporate america.

Sad to say but I think they have wore me down... resistance is futile... we are Borg for Star Trek fans...

 

[Industrial Toys]

What a world! What a mess!

Weird how we live in a world where increasingly, nothing that's of quality, honesty, integrity, common sense or value seems to be worth much anymore.

 

[ultrarunner]

What a world! What a mess!

Weird how we live in a world where increasingly, nothing that's of quality, honesty, integrity, common sense or value seems to be worth much anymore.

I think it all boils down to a line item on the monthly balance sheet.... and the poster that said MBA's running things couldn't be more spot on.

Another aspect is the notion of being too big to fail... or for every screwed over vendor there are dozen waiting to step in.

The last thing I want to do is cause problems for my boss... really... and I have said as much regarding stepping down.

Thinking of floating the idea of cutting my scheduled shift from 8 hours to 7.5 and back filling with PTO at the end of each pay period to give the boss a buffer to have a better shot of not exceeding 80 hours per pay period?

PS... In case anyone wonders I have off as I write this to compensate for my last call in.

 

[hawkeye08]

I was hourly for a number of years, then salaried, then salaried with overtime paid for some things and now salaried with no overtime. Company does not pay for my cell phone, but they want me to share my cell number for work. I simply said, when you pay the bill, I will share it for work, otherwise it is for my convenience (I can get work emails on it and be away from my desk and still take care of many emails). I occasionally get a work call on my cell, but I only answer it if it is to my benefit.

Guess it just depends on how you want to deal with the situation. As long as you are taking care of things and not getting paid overtime, nothing will change unless you force it (by not being called out).

I was the emergency contact for our office (for fire/police/etc) for a number of years, never got paid for going in when alarm went off (or just as often when the last one out did not set the alarm)... I did it because it was less problem for me to deal with it first than to deal with the stupid after the ones on call dealt with it. Call outs were 4 hours min for those hourly folks, even when it literally took 5 minutes.

I had customers calling me at home at all hours instead of going through dispatch, they mostly wanted consulting for a few minutes and were trying to avoid paying the call out fees. I put a stop to that by stating up front, you already have to pay call out, how can I help?

 

[George2615]

I went through the exact same thing. I was an hourly employee at my non-union hospital for 31 years. My schedule was M-F from 0600-1430. However, because I was the only maintenance engineer person at an outside property (Surgery Center) I was the only one who knew that building and expected to be on call 24/7 (without any extra pay). I was called in many times day and night on my days off for one thing or another. Same as you, they would ask me to take comp time off during the week and not at the OT rate. If I was called in for 4 hours on a Sun. they wanted me to take off 4 hours instead of the time and a half 6 hours I was entitled to during my regular week. Their reasoning is that because the maint. dept. does not do direct patient care the maintenance dept. is a cost to the hospital and they try to stay within a certain budget. When they have to pay OT they have to account to administration as to why they went over budget. The Nursing dept. seems to have unlimited OT because they have direct patient care.

They knew I was a nice guy and would always do whatever needed to accommodate the hospital. If I requested the OT they would pay it but then I was looked at as not being a team player and my annual evaluation could or would have several negative remarks which could and would affect or delay any raises or promotions.

I was lucky that I had the chance to retire 19 months ago. I still keep in contact with my immediate supervisor who I've known for the entire 31 years I was there. He tells me its only got worse since I left. He wishes he could retire but he's not of retirement age listed in the employee handbook. The handbook is another thing administration has re-written many times when an employee found a loophole or they reduced or eliminated benefits. My replacement doesn't do the comp time thing and is looked down on by administration as not being a team player. His supervisor has been told (unofficially and verbally only) his evaluation must have negative comments so they have an excuse to get rid of him later if need be.

When your position changed a while ago you should have contacted a lawyer to draft / create a specific job description of what is required of you such as call in pay, benefits, OT rates, pay rate, future raises etc.

I'm afraid you are between a rock and a hard place and that the bottom line for you is put up with their requests, leave for another job, or retire.

 

[ultrarunner]

I can relate... especially about the part of those managers with call duty would end up calling me anyway...

The new company has a 2 hour minimum for call out... they always get their money's worth.

I never minded work related e-mails as it often was a help to get a heads-up... plus I have the numbers to call our vendors and never abuse it... I also don't waste their time.

My last vacation was 3 years ago... I was gone 20 days... several of the vendors couldn't wait for my return... not exaggerating...

Everything was an emergency with regard... even some of the stuipidest things like forgetting to add distilled water to a EO sterilizer machine...

The managers said it's the vendors responsibility as we pay them for a service contract... which is true.

What the managers don't understand is I have negotiated very low rates or no increase for years because I don't abuse it...

When I call... the first thing I say is the urgency... and 99% of the time it isn't...

Hate to say it... and it would come back badly on me... but all positions of authority are women all the way to the CEO of the 100,000 employee organization and 97% of my hospital is staff by women... they are very good at following protocol... but often not so good when it comes to common sense... the biggest is EVERYTHING is an emergency.... one light bulb out isn't an emergency!

The dynamic is night and day from working in an all male Union Tool and Die shop... only the accountant was female and most highly respected.

 

[newbury]

After college I worked about a year in a Union Shop... great experience and everyone knew the rules... just needed to look it up or ask the steward when in doubt.

For 10 years I had my own company which I still have on a greatly reduced scale.

For 25 years I was salaried exempt management holding a Director Title which was eliminated.

Since the merger 9 months ago my position was reclassified as hourly with time card and we are are not a Union Hospital.

Face it - you have joined the ranks of the peeons. It's the trickle down theory of management. That happened at the Army lab I worked at for 38 years. We went from a university based atmosphere to an organization run by small bean counters.

Management morphed from persons published and respected in their field to people who had taken management classes and treated the workers as interchangeable pawns on a chessboard. They viewed no difference between a scientist with years of experience and valuable knowledge and contacts and a fresh hire contractor that could not find the bathroom.

Then they were shocked when the contractor was sent on a mission and failed.

It reads like under the trickle down theory of management fingers are getting pointed down at you as it being YOUR problem that you fix everything and you don't have anyone under you that you can point the finger at.

You've had a great run, but it might be time to admit you've won and move on.

But be careful - if you retire and become your own boss (like I did) you may never be able to rest.

 

[ultrarunner]

I went through the exact same thing. I was an hourly employee at my non-union hospital for 31 years. My schedule was M-F from 0600-1430. However, because I was the only maintenance engineer person at an outside property (Surgery Center) I was the only one who knew that building and expected to be on call 24/7 (without any extra pay). I was called in many times day and night on my days off for one thing or another. Same as you, they would ask me to take comp time off during the week and not at the OT rate. If I was called in for 4 hours on a Sun. they wanted me to take off 4 hours instead of the time and a half 6 hours I was entitled to during my regular week. Their reasoning is that because the maint. dept. does not do direct patient care is a cost to the hospital and they try to stay within a certain budget. When they have to pay OT they have to account to administration as to why they went over budget.

They knew I was a nice guy and would always do whatever needed to accommodate the hospital. If I requested the OT they would pay it but then I was looked at as not being a team player and my annual evaluation could or would have several negative remarks which could and would affect or delay any raises or promotions.

I was lucky that I had the chance to retire 19 months ago. I still keep in contact with my immediate supervisor who I've known for the entire 31 years I was there. He tells me its only got worse since I left. He wishes he could retire but he's not of retirement age listed in the employee handbook. The handbook is another thing administration has re-written many times when an employee found a loophole or they reduced or eliminated benefits.

When your position changed a while ago you should have contacted a lawyer to draft / create a specific job description of what is required of you such as call in pay, benefits, OT rates, pay rate, future raises etc.

I'm afraid you are between a rock and a hard place and that the bottom line for you is put up with their requests, leave for another job, or retire.

It's like we have parallel lives... and I remember the advice you gave me last December...

I was the first to meet with the chipper HR person who handed me my package and said she was here to answer any questions... it took about 30 seconds for me to say this is not what I was told nor expecting... she said I have 3-days to go over it but the offer is the offer... to which I said no reason to wait 3-days as my answer is no...

I fully prepared to leave and Boss got involved... I was the only one carried over without signing... in the end my title was changed to Chief Engineer and my Boss said let's just get through this... so I signed.

Since then it has ebbed and flowed... constant tweaking from corp and never ending HR assignments... about 30 hours so far mostly corp CYA

It got bad and several of us... myself and two managers and lead OR nurse tendered our resignations... they all left but I stayed with the promise to just stick it out... Corp said it was collusion but I did not have a clue the others were tendering resignations... the nurse managers have all landed very well... the OR manager was snapped up so fast and it was better all around... not even looking for a job... just the word got out...

Unfortunately... it is not quite the same for engineering... most is outsourced these days...

Corp sent out counselors because the survey came back that almost all of us were looking to leave...

It's not really rocket science... but the workforce across the board has gone from dedicated individuals united for a common cause to one of I just work here.

 

[ultrarunner]

You've had a great run, but it might be time to admit you've won and move on.

Thank you for that... what a great perspective!

I had promised to give it a year... that would officially be February 28th...

Anything is bearable for short period of time... just have a feeling that following the rules as laid out and evolving is going to disrupt the apple cars as Grandma would say... or even get ugly.

My reviews have been stellar and maximum raise followed... we had just finished Joint Commission and I was the only one singled out for accolades with one of the surveyors saying I should be cloned.

It is too bad that deep institutional knowledge carries such little value today...

 

[RNeumann]

After college I worked about a year in a Union Shop... great experience and everyone knew the rules... just needed to look it up or ask the steward when in doubt.

For 10 years I had my own company which I still have on a greatly reduced scale.

For 25 years I was salaried exempt management holding a Director Title which was eliminated.

Since the merger 9 months ago my position was reclassified as hourly with time card and we are are not a Union Hospital.

My question is regarding Call Back and Overtime as an hourly employee.

We have had a rash of early morning hour attempted break ins (2) and a weekend emergency Boiler repair... over the last two weeks.

The second break in I actually caught the guy... followed the trail of blood from where he cut himself after smashing a window and crawling through at 1 am on Sunday... the police, clean up and boarding/securing the area took 4 hours... the steam boiler was more involved as I had to replace a pump Sunday so as the surgery schedule would not be impacted for Monday...

The Hospital Admin called me in and praised me for my efforts BUT said paying me overtime is a problem... believe me... I would rather have stayed in bed instead of apprehending a 3rd strike petty felon or cancelled my family plans for Sunday fixing the boiler.

Anyway... going forward... anytime I work outside my 5 am to 1:30 pm daily shift will have to be taken away from my next scheduled shift... so if I have 5 hours of Sunday Call In... my regular 8 hour Monday shift will be reduced by 5 hours to 3 hours... making it 5 am to 8 am...

Sounds odd to me but this is the way it has to be... having no experience working hourly outside of a Union Shop... is this typical?

For 25 years... I had plenty of Call... but being salaried it was simply my job... no matter when or how often... I was expected to manage my own time and get the job done.

Have to admit I hate spending time in front of the time clock waiting to clock back from mandatory meal break...

Admin's goal is Perfect Time Cards... but I don't see how this is possible for hourly engineering without 24/7 onside engineering presence.

Corp has said it is the responsibility of salaried managers to respond to after hour events... but 100% of the management is female and they bluntly refuse to respond to any after hours event or they live a great distance away... I live close and have been doing the response for 25 years.... the only thing that changed is now there is a time card record of it.

Post Script... HR says I am under no obligation to respond outside my shift and only those receiving On-Call pay are required to be available... and my position does not qualify... however I am the only local contact for Police, Fire, Security, etc...

Sounds like fairly standard treatment to me. They don’t see your value in responding outside normal business hours and are discouraging it. The on call/standby folks should be given a cell phone for the police contact number or the police need to be given the number of someone who is authorized to come in.
From the HR standpoint they have eliminated your salary position and haven’t put you on the call back or standby. I’d say you are pushing your luck with them if you continue to work outside the normal schedule you have been given.
It’s a new reality for you- you need to be a submarine- run silent, run deep.

Btw- in their eyes catching the bad guy is a negative that only exposes them to more liability. You were probably breaking policy by following the individual.

 

[George2615]

Thank you for that... what a great perspective!

I had promised to give it a year... that would officially be February 28th...

Anything is bearable for short period of time... just have a feeling that following the rules as laid out and evolving is going to disrupt the apple cars as Grandma would say... or even ugly.

It is too bad that deep institutional knowledge carries such little value today...

Agree 100%. Our hospital started as a small hospital that did care about the employees but has since become a big corporate business that only cares about the bottom line (the almighty dollar) and not the employees so much. Yes, they want quality people but the ones like You and I are becoming extinct. Employees are now just numbers. They used to have employee recognition dinners for employees that had 5,10,15,20,25,30 or more years of service. I went to each one when I passed each milestone. I went to my 30 year dinner (by their invitation) only to find out they had forgotten to include my name and a few others at the awards ceremony. Administration really had egg on their face that night. We really felt like we were just another number that night but were happy to see the embarrassed looks on their faces when our names were brought up at the end.