witch concrete for balist box

[Chris2520]

I know this has been discussed many times. i even tried to search the forum.
I am getting ready to add concrete or cement to my balist box. I need it to be a heavy as possable. I know i heard morter , cement and concrete all have different weights. so witch is the heaviest to mix up and put in the balist box. do you think adding sand will help. i hear sand is quite heavy. I picked up a muffler pipe bender today that weighs 1600 pounds. and it was lite in the rear. even with the backhoe on. so much for JD's specs Hu...

Thanks Chris.....

 

[kennyd]

Portland cement should be the heaviest to use for your BB

 

[tuolumne]

The easiest thing you can do is bag mix concrete which will be about 150 lbs per cubic foot. Sand can vary a bit in weight depending on the particle size and composition and it won't be as heavy as the concrete. Heavier would be to stack steel plates or elevator weights in there. Heavier still would be to fill it with lead. Personally, if my 3520 ever arrives (another week delay due to wrong backhoe braket!) I will we using concrete with some pvc pipes cast in for holding tools.

 

[jdbower]

I doubt it'll be a problem, but the 3-point is limited to 1433 lbs according to the specs (10 cubic feet of concrete based on the spec above).

You can also try extending the backhoe bucket in the mean time. While it will make the tractor much more prone to whacking into something on turns (not the voice of experience, of course ) it will shift the center of mass back a bit more.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I might be wrong, but I don't think a ballast box full of concrete is going to weigh more than your backhoe. I am amazed your over-pressure valves didn't kick if you picked up something heavy enough to make you light in the rear end with your hoe on.

 

[Chris2520]

I am amazed your over-pressure valves didn't kick if you picked up something heavy enough to make you light in the rear end with your hoe on.

Oh yes it will , This muffler pipe bender weighs 1860 pounds. I know for a fact. cause i weighed it ten years ago. at the steel scrap place next to my shop. and the pallet forks weighes 317 pounds according to JD. I can lift it to til the casters on the machine are a little over the headlights. before i start to feel the check valve kicking in . any way you cut it. thats 2177 pounds. At 6 to 12 inches. i can move it anywhere i want with no problem.
I concider it a legitimate lift. cause i moved if from my bacement. around the house and up to the garage. with no problem. and thats all that matters.This is the Extream. but i needed to move it. I was going to take a picture with it up even with the headlights. witch is about 3 feet. but when i attempted to get off the tractor. the back tires started to come off the ground. even with the backhoe on. my 250 body was just enough to keep it down. so i had to take the picture at about 8 inches up. but going slow at 6 to 10 inches . it was no problem. I am completely amazed at what this machine will do. JD really needs to get there specs in check. i dont know where thay came up with that 996 mess. thats a joke. yesterday i loaded a fully dressed out bigblock 454 on to the pallet forks and loaded it into a trailer. at almost max height. the motor weighes 900 pounds and the pallet forks weighes 317.
that alone is 1217 to max height , and it was no problem i drove around with it. and it was not lite in the back at all. I think the specs are for a 2320. and thay just used the same for a 2520. and its wrong. someone ask in another thread if a 2320 would lift 1200 pound round bails. i dont think it would as i have used one. but i know a 2520 would have no problem at all. even with 1500 pounds. So unless i have a freak of nature. you can lift the back tires off the ground with the backhoe before the check valve hits.
Here is the pipe bender on the pallet forks as i was putting it in the garage.
I dont think i need to lift anything this heavy very often. But its nice to know if i need to. I can..... in the future folks concidering a 2520. this should answer alot of questions for you.....

 

[Phunge]

Keep in mind, however, that what the machine can lift and what it is rated for are two different things. Just as you can easily rev an engine past a red-line, the question becomes how many times can you lift things of that weight before breaking something?

Since the 2320 and 2520 are basically the same tractor from a wheels/tires/frame/axle/loader perspective, I would expect that the rated capacity would be the same. (I suspect the limiting factor is probably the front axle?)

 

[Egon]

For information:

Mortar and cement are the products that go thru a curring process and essentially hold the aggregate [ sand or gravel ] together.

Concrete is cement mixed with gravel.

Mortar is mixed with sand for building block walls, brick walls etc. It is stickier than a cement product as it contains lime.

For counter weight get a container and use bags of sand. easy to adjust weight and cheap.

 

[6sunset6]

I had to make a weight once to hang on the end of a drag line cable. Took off the dragline bucket and need to weight the end to use a hook. I used an empty beer ball with a throu piece of steel for the link between the cable and the hook. The beer ball I filled with concrete sand mix with old lead tire weights instead of gravel. It was pretty heavy. It still on the end of the cable about 20' up in the air. The beer ball casing is still there also.

 

[ducati996]

Keep in mind, however, that what the machine can lift and what it is rated for are two different things. Just as you can easily rev an engine past a red-line, the question becomes how many times can you lift things of that weight before breaking something?

Since the 2320 and 2520 are basically the same tractor from a wheels/tires/frame/axle/loader perspective, I would expect that the rated capacity would be the same. (I suspect the limiting factor is probably the front axle?)

You have missed what 2520 owners have been saying, and clearly pointed out from prior posts regarding specifications posted from Deere. The machine is much more capable as in daily usage and printed specifications - its a signifcant upgrade over the 2320 - I owned one and quickly got rid of it because it was less of a performer than my 4100. And it turns out my 2520 is significantly stronger than my 4100. So here we are -

Duc

 

[ducati996]

I doubt it'll be a problem, but the 3-point is limited to 1433 lbs according to the specs (10 cubic feet of concrete based on the spec above).

You can also try extending the backhoe bucket in the mean time. While it will make the tractor much more prone to whacking into something on turns (not the voice of experience, of course ) it will shift the center of mass back a bit more.

Where you been? those specs are way off - try it yourself - especially for the 3pt....You will be lifting 1400 lbs plus all day long 24" inches out -

 

[ducati996]

I know this has been discussed many times. i even tried to search the forum.
I am getting ready to add concrete or cement to my balist box. I need it to be a heavy as possable. I know i heard morter , cement and concrete all have different weights. so witch is the heaviest to mix up and put in the balist box. do you think adding sand will help. i hear sand is quite heavy. I picked up a muffler pipe bender today that weighs 1600 pounds. and it was lite in the rear. even with the backhoe on. so much for JD's specs Hu...

Thanks Chris.....

JD used to have approx weights based on the different types of cement -
for the weight box that should have come with the loader. I used portland cement filled to a few inches below the top. My guess thats 700-800 lbs but I need to look at my old 4100 manual to see if thats correct. I think the hoe is the heavier of the two. In my case I added RimGuard which is almost as heavy as CaCL without the corrosiveness or toxicity. My guess my wheels are 400 lbs each now....you might want to do that - its cheap to do typically less than $200 for both...

 

[jdbower]

Yeah, I know Deere's numbers are conservative (especially for the 2520, it seems) but from a past life I still sometimes feel compelled to point out the published specs

For filling tires, here is a chart to estimate weights:
Rim Guard - Liquid Tire Ballast

That prompted me to find this on cement/concrete:
Concrete Technology | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs): Unit Weights | Portland Cement Association (PCA)

And this on the densities of other materials (yeah, I know it's in metric but bigger numbers are still bigger numbers ):
Mass, Weight, Density or Specific Gravity of Bulk Materials

 

[Chris2520]

Keep in mind, however, that what the machine can lift and what it is rated for are two different things. Just as you can easily rev an engine past a red-line, the question becomes how many times can you lift things of that weight before breaking something?

Since the 2320 and 2520 are basically the same tractor from a wheels/tires/frame/axle/loader perspective, I would expect that the rated capacity would be the same. (I suspect the limiting factor is probably the front axle?)

2320 and 2520 are not the same at all. in performance. 2320 is closer to the 2305 than 2520. same motor , single pump and same pump as 2305. 2520 is more of a comercial tractor..

 

[Chris2520]

Portland cement should be the heaviest to use for your BB

Kenny , you know someone else told me that. and i was wondering. is that what you have in yours. do you know the weight of your box. I will not be putting pvc pipe of anything like that. i want it as heavy as possable.

 

[Phunge]

You have missed what 2520 owners have been saying, and clearly pointed out from prior posts regarding specifications posted from Deere. The machine is much more capable as in daily usage and printed specifications - its a signifcant upgrade over the 2320 - I owned one and quickly got rid of it because it was less of a performer than my 4100. And it turns out my 2520 is significantly stronger than my 4100. So here we are -

2320 and 2520 are not the same at all. in performance. 2320 is closer to the 2305 than 2520. same motor , single pump and same pump as 2305. 2520 i more of a comercial tractor..

You guys are missing the point. I clearly stated in my post "2320 and 2520 are basically the same tractor from a wheels/tires/frame/axle/loader perspective". I understand they have different engines and pumps.

If the JD specification for safe lifting capacity is based on the strength of the weakest link, perhaps the front axle, then an engine and pump from a D9 dozer would not improve the lifting capacity. In fact, the additional weight of the engine/pump on the front axle would reduce the capacity of the loader.

In my mind, you've definitely exceeded the rated capacity of the tractor (which is based on more than pure hydraulic capability). Though the tractor may do it, it may not be able to do it safely or reliably, thus the reason for JD's seemingly under-rated specs. Clearly, continued over-loading of the tractor beyond it's rated specifications could have adverse effects.

I'm sure there's more to JDs rating than a simple typo.

 

[kennyd]

Kenny , you know someone else told me that. and i was wondering. is that what you have in yours. do you know the weight of your box. I will not be putting pvc pipe of anything like that. i want it as heavy as possable.

Here is what I know, per the Manual for my 410 loader-page 15-11:

CALCULATED BALLAST:
________________________________________________
UNIT / SAND / CONCRETE /PORLAND CEMENT
________________________________________________
BALLAST / 528lbs / 692lbs / 926lbs
________________________________________________
EMPTY
BOX / 88lbs / 88lbs / 88lbs
________________________________________________
BALLAST
W/EXT. / 176lbs / 104lbs / 308lbs
________________________________________________
EMPTY
EXT. / 8lbs / 8lbs / 8lbs
________________________________________________
TOTAL
WEIGHT / 800lbs / 1018lbs / 1330lbs
________________________________________________


So, Without the BB extension, the box weighs 616lbs w/sand, 780lbs w/ concrete, and 1014lbs w/Portland cement.

I used regular cement from the local rental place that sells Redi-Mix U-Cart concrete. I just put the BB on my trailer and drove there and they filled it! Troweled it when I got home! Don't forget to seal the inside seams first with duct tape or silicone or the water will run out and make a mess! (been there, got the T-shirt!)



If I only had a scanner it would be easier to scan the page...doesn't your 210 manual have a page on ballasting the tractor when using the loader?

 

[Chris2520]

I dont know if the manual said or not. I trust yall more than JD specs.
Thanks for the info kenny. I will get some portland. and filler up.....

wonder how many bags of portland it would take to fill a JD balist box to the top?

 

[Chris2520]

You guys are missing the point. I clearly stated in my post "2320 and 2520 are basically the same tractor from a wheels/tires/frame/axle/loader perspective". I understand they have different engines and pumps.

If the JD specification for safe lifting capacity is based on the strength of the weakest link, perhaps the front axle, then an engine and pump from a D9 dozer would not improve the lifting capacity. In fact, the additional weight of the engine/pump on the front axle would reduce the capacity of the loader.

In my mind, you've definitely exceeded the rated capacity of the tractor (which is based on more than pure hydraulic capability). Though the tractor may do it, it may not be able to do it safely or reliably, thus the reason for JD's seemingly under-rated specs. Clearly, continued over-loading of the tractor beyond it's rated specifications could have adverse effects.

I'm sure there's more to JDs rating than a simple typo.

I agree 100%. I know this lift was extream. and not something i would do often. But i bought the machine to do what needs doing. and if object A needs to be moved from Point A to point B and the machine will pick it up and not tos me over the steering wheel. object A is going to be moved...
and i showed you , I can move it....

 

[ducati996]

You guys are missing the point. I clearly stated in my post "2320 and 2520 are basically the same tractor from a wheels/tires/frame/axle/loader perspective". I understand they have different engines and pumps.

If the JD specification for safe lifting capacity is based on the strength of the weakest link, perhaps the front axle, then an engine and pump from a D9 dozer would not improve the lifting capacity. In fact, the additional weight of the engine/pump on the front axle would reduce the capacity of the loader.

In my mind, you've definitely exceeded the rated capacity of the tractor (which is based on more than pure hydraulic capability). Though the tractor may do it, it may not be able to do it safely or reliably, thus the reason for JD's seemingly under-rated specs. Clearly, continued over-loading of the tractor beyond it's rated specifications could have adverse effects.

I'm sure there's more to JDs rating than a simple typo.

You missed the point again - they arent basically the same. That includes engine, axle (front and especially the rear), hydrolics, wheels and alot more (where does the extra weight come from? the longer wheelbase?).
Deeres specifications are loaded with to many Typo's to be credible. I mentioned this and pointed out the specification errors repeatedly.
Besides I have to ask - arent you still shopping? wasnt it recently you were looking at box store units and decided to look at other larger machines? While I appreciate you words of caution, I like to count on my own years of experience and of owning different models (specifically those in question) to draw my own conclusions and factor in any safety margins that might be required. Now lets say the deere specs are correct, they now have an issue of every single 2520 being more capable than specified out of the factory - How long do you think Deere would allow that, since they would be liable in many ways - either warranty repair or possible injury because something failed? These machines have been available for 2 years now (maybe more), and all the machines are this way with no changes forthcoming. My .02 cents