Windows--98, 2000, ME, XP???
- Thread starter glennmac
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Oh, and back to the original point of this thread, I have definitively decided that if I get a PC, I will get XP (home version). I have no current PC software (it all belongs to my current employer), so I might as well go along with the mighty flow of Microsoft.
I have also decided that if I get a PC, it will be the high end model of the new R series that IBM just announced this month.
Now, my only decision before I go to sleep is whether to buy the Mac that is in the last 2 hours of an online auction.
I have also decided that if I get a PC, it will be the high end model of the new R series that IBM just announced this month.
Now, my only decision before I go to sleep is whether to buy the Mac that is in the last 2 hours of an online auction.
MossRoad
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Our mac guy has just as many problems to repair as our PC guys. Their hardware fails at the same rate and the software has to get reloaded after it gets corrupted just like the PCs. Back when IBM came out with desktop PC's, they sold them for about 1500 bucks to saturate the market. Apples were 2500 bucks. Apples only cost 600 bucks to make at the time. The rest was profit. They assumed that since their product was so much more user friendly, with the GUI interface and Post Script licensed from Adobe, their what you see is what you get on the printer,that people would spend the extra money. Well, bean counters rule the world and the rest is history. The reason that Apple lost the martket to IBM was due to their own arrogance and greed. They should have saturated the market like VHS did to BETA. If they would have done this, right now we all would have been sitting around waiting for our macs to finish our post on Tractorbynet so that we could then switch back to our solitiare program, because until Mac os X, we couldn't multi task. I don't care for Apple or Microsoft or Motorola or Intel. I just have to go with the flow and get something done at work. Today, if I was going to buy a laptop for home use, I would get the third fastest Intel PIII, 128M of RAM, Windows XP Professional, the largest hard drive, a CD-RW and the biggest display I could afford. Hope this helps. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
What was that old Family Feud line?? Oh, yeah -- "Good answer!!" /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
(but I'd get a dvd drive and add an external cdrw)
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by huckflynn on 10/26/01 09:35 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
(but I'd get a dvd drive and add an external cdrw)
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by huckflynn on 10/26/01 09:35 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
Buck
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Scruffy,
I was thinking that if he bought as one package, it should work fine. These retailers like Dell, Micron and Gateway do a pretty good job of ensuring all the device are compatible.
However, I do agree that if Bird starts upgrading hardware there may be problems.
Buck
I was thinking that if he bought as one package, it should work fine. These retailers like Dell, Micron and Gateway do a pretty good job of ensuring all the device are compatible.
However, I do agree that if Bird starts upgrading hardware there may be problems.
Buck
scruffy
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Buck, by all reports, XP is a very stable O/S. It is when you get into the privacy issues that it falls apart (my opinion also), but that can be tightened up with a good firewall, and by NOT using Micro$hafts Passport program. That is an affront to everyone, and a direct attack upon your privacy in itself.
Upgrades? The average user won't be doing upgrades to their computers, they will run the same thing until forced to buy or upgrade due to incompatibilities between software and hardware. XP is built so that anything past a year or two in age is NOT compatible with it, hence a new computer OR upgrade your existing computer to be compliant. Any failing part...and new computers have that problem as well...necessitates re-initing your software through Micro$haft...(pain in hiney). The new Office XP has been known to come up with the message that the machine that it is started on, is NOT the machine it was originally installed on.
??? same machine, just a few weeks older...but still left user w/o program to use UNTIL Re-Initing with Micro$haft. IF a person wishes to use XP, I would suggest give it a year before trying...give M$ a chance to eliminate some of the bugs.
Personally, all my machines are slowly moving away from Windows in any form. It's just a matter of time until the family is all up to speed with Mandrake Linux.
Upgrades? The average user won't be doing upgrades to their computers, they will run the same thing until forced to buy or upgrade due to incompatibilities between software and hardware. XP is built so that anything past a year or two in age is NOT compatible with it, hence a new computer OR upgrade your existing computer to be compliant. Any failing part...and new computers have that problem as well...necessitates re-initing your software through Micro$haft...(pain in hiney). The new Office XP has been known to come up with the message that the machine that it is started on, is NOT the machine it was originally installed on.
??? same machine, just a few weeks older...but still left user w/o program to use UNTIL Re-Initing with Micro$haft. IF a person wishes to use XP, I would suggest give it a year before trying...give M$ a chance to eliminate some of the bugs.
Personally, all my machines are slowly moving away from Windows in any form. It's just a matter of time until the family is all up to speed with Mandrake Linux.
Mossroad,
I concur with your desired profile, with one exception.
I just bought 512 Megs of RAM for my Dell Inspiron 5000 for a mere $90! I could hardly believe it. So, memory is so cheap today that there is no reason not to go ahead and get the 512 RAM, which will make a substantial difference in performance.
My favorite memory source is Crucial (actually Micron, one of the largest memory manufacturers out there.) http://www.crucial.com. They'll have the best price, a terrific "selector", and free FedEx 2 day. Tough to beat for a good memory deal, IMO.
BobT.
A Indiana Boy
I concur with your desired profile, with one exception.
I just bought 512 Megs of RAM for my Dell Inspiron 5000 for a mere $90! I could hardly believe it. So, memory is so cheap today that there is no reason not to go ahead and get the 512 RAM, which will make a substantial difference in performance.
My favorite memory source is Crucial (actually Micron, one of the largest memory manufacturers out there.) http://www.crucial.com. They'll have the best price, a terrific "selector", and free FedEx 2 day. Tough to beat for a good memory deal, IMO.
BobT.
A Indiana Boy
scruffy
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BobT, there are several good internet sites where you can buy quality RAM at 34.50 up for 512MB. A couple months back, I bought 1024 MB (2X512MB modules) for 66 bucks. It is still available, but I am referring to PC133 SDRAM memory.
Scruffy,
My memory is for a PCIII 750 mhz, and a laptop on top of that --- factors that make it more expensive. You can get 512 megs for some desktops for real, real cheap. I am pretty sure Crucial will be among the lowest you'll find.
BobT.
A Indiana Boy
My memory is for a PCIII 750 mhz, and a laptop on top of that --- factors that make it more expensive. You can get 512 megs for some desktops for real, real cheap. I am pretty sure Crucial will be among the lowest you'll find.
BobT.
A Indiana Boy
scruffy
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BobT, that is why I included what TYPE it was, I know some types of memory get more expensive! Laptops, being laptops, can get so, as well as proprietary types of memory, as they have you over a barrel. You are limited to an item produced in a much smaller quantity, and a much more limited usage.
MossRoad
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And to think. I remember paying(not me, my company) about a thousand bucks for 1 meg of memory not less than 10 years ago. And another thousand bucks for a 20 megabyte hard drive.
<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
scruffy
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MossRoad, just two years ago, I had to replace a 64mb memory card in a DEC server, it was $5000 for a used/recycled card! Only needed the server online for two more weeks, so said forget it, and limped the network along on two other servers out of the cluster. Sure was happy when the NEW servers arrived! Those 64mb cards were dedicated solely to the O/S, even though there was another mb of ram memory onboard.
MossRoad
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Was that a DEC Alpha unit? I have several in use and love them... except for the replacement parts cost/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. They are rock solid units. Too bad Compaq bought Digital. Too bad Microlimp stopped support for NT on the Alpha chip.
<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
scruffy
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You got it sir! You are right, they are rock solid performers. I agree with the 'too bad' assessment about MicroLimp. I don't like NT, solely because of the manpower requirement needed to keep it up, and the necessity of bringing down the system in order to add a new periphial.
The Alpha's are great machines, and the prices of boards reflect that reputation! Their was a collective groan industry wide,(should've been audible nationwide) when Comcrap bought DEC. Immediately, things were felt in the field because
of changes in their service department, service took a nose-dive due to COMPAQ's changes in long standing DEC policy.
The Alpha units I referred to were the old 2100's, and being replaced by 4100's.
The Alpha's are great machines, and the prices of boards reflect that reputation! Their was a collective groan industry wide,(should've been audible nationwide) when Comcrap bought DEC. Immediately, things were felt in the field because
of changes in their service department, service took a nose-dive due to COMPAQ's changes in long standing DEC policy.
The Alpha units I referred to were the old 2100's, and being replaced by 4100's.
MossRoad
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We've got some 800s and 3000s running NT4.0. 800s using Microsoft clustering and 3000 using Digital clustering. I must say, I like the MS clustering better. Faster response and easier configuration.
<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>
fmorgan
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I haven't read everything in this thread, but did come across an article in an online rag this morning that I thought might be of interest. I've just cut-and-pasted it FYI:
<font color=blue>Amidst the muffled hoopla surrounding the release of Microsoft's Windows XP operating system, some heavy-hitting consumer groups have complained to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) that Windows XP and Microsoft Passport -- software that consolidates passwords, credit card numbers and other personal information -- jeopardize user privacy. The complaint alleges privacy problems stemming from the XP set-up process, which repeatedly asks users to sign up for Microsoft Passport.
CALL FOR ACTION
The groups complaining about XP and Passport are serious players. They include: Center for Digital Democracy, Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, Consumers Union, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Media Access Project, Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, Center for Media Education, Consumer Action, Electronic Privacy Information Center, Junkbusters Corp., NetAction and U.S. PIRG.
On July 26, these groups submitted a complaint to the FTC that set forth alleged privacy implications of XP and Passport. On Aug. 15, the groups sent the FTC a supplement that detailed how XP and Passport would harm consumer interests. The FTC has not yet taken any affirmative steps to address the issues raised.
On Oct. 23, the groups sent a demand to the FTC that complained about "Microsoft's ability to track, profile, and monitor the 165 million [Microsoft] Passport users" and the "far-reaching and profound implications for privacy protection in general and in particular with regard to the growth of electronic commerce."
ALLEGED SECURITY LAPSES
Before setting forth the requested relief, the Oct. 23 demand notes a recent "series of security lapses" that further support the groups' claims that "Microsoft's guarantees of privacy and security are deceptive and unfair to consumers." Indeed, according to the demand, "Microsoft's failure to disclose the actual risks associated with the collection and use of personal information ... constitutes an unfair and deceptive trade practice." The referenced "security lapses" include:
• A programmer's ability to crack both Hotmail and Passport by cross-site scripting, thus allowing anyone to gain access to Passport identification and credit card data with a single line of code;
• Code posted on the Internet, enabling other people to read the e-mail of Hotmail users;
• A programmer's reported ability to access Microsoft's corporate network over the course of six days by way of a hole in Windows 2000;
• Infection of the Code Red Worm through Microsoft's Hotmail servers;
• Infection of the NIMDA virus, which is propagated through Microsoft's Internet Information Server, on about 1.3 computers;
• Ability to view Microsoft customers' names, addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers and purchase histories as a result of an error on the company's customer support Web site;
• Internet display of user names and passwords in plain text through an error on Microsoft's Certified Partners page.
REQUESTED RELIEF
After detailing these alleged security lapses, the groups made specific requests for relief in their demand, including:
• An investigation into Microsoft's collection practices through Passport and associated services;
• An order requiring Microsoft to revise its XP registration procedures to make sure that purchasers of XP are clearly informed that they do not need to register for Passport to gain access to the Internet;
• Absent explicit consent, an order requiring Microsoft to block the sharing of personal information among Microsoft areas provided by a user under the Passport registration procedures;
• An order mandating that Microsoft use techniques for anonymity and pseudo-anonymity that would allow XP users to access Microsoft Web sites without disclosing their actual identities;
• An order requiring Microsoft to use techniques that allow XP users to easily integrate services provided by non-Microsoft companies for online payment and other electronic commerce activities;
• Commencement of an investigation to ascertain whether Passport complies with the requirements of the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act;
• And lastly, that Microsoft be required to disgorge any personal information collected "fraudulently and deceptively" through XP and Passport.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
The consumer groups certainly raise issues worthy of consideration by the FTC. However, because of the current focus on anti-terrorism efforts, it is possible that the issues raised will not get the visibility and response that they would have otherwise.</font color=blue>
Glenn, for what it's worth, I'm using Win2k at home, work, and laptop, and it's just fine. XP looks pretty, but these certainly are interesting concerns.
<font color=blue>Amidst the muffled hoopla surrounding the release of Microsoft's Windows XP operating system, some heavy-hitting consumer groups have complained to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) that Windows XP and Microsoft Passport -- software that consolidates passwords, credit card numbers and other personal information -- jeopardize user privacy. The complaint alleges privacy problems stemming from the XP set-up process, which repeatedly asks users to sign up for Microsoft Passport.
CALL FOR ACTION
The groups complaining about XP and Passport are serious players. They include: Center for Digital Democracy, Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, Consumers Union, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Media Access Project, Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, Center for Media Education, Consumer Action, Electronic Privacy Information Center, Junkbusters Corp., NetAction and U.S. PIRG.
On July 26, these groups submitted a complaint to the FTC that set forth alleged privacy implications of XP and Passport. On Aug. 15, the groups sent the FTC a supplement that detailed how XP and Passport would harm consumer interests. The FTC has not yet taken any affirmative steps to address the issues raised.
On Oct. 23, the groups sent a demand to the FTC that complained about "Microsoft's ability to track, profile, and monitor the 165 million [Microsoft] Passport users" and the "far-reaching and profound implications for privacy protection in general and in particular with regard to the growth of electronic commerce."
ALLEGED SECURITY LAPSES
Before setting forth the requested relief, the Oct. 23 demand notes a recent "series of security lapses" that further support the groups' claims that "Microsoft's guarantees of privacy and security are deceptive and unfair to consumers." Indeed, according to the demand, "Microsoft's failure to disclose the actual risks associated with the collection and use of personal information ... constitutes an unfair and deceptive trade practice." The referenced "security lapses" include:
• A programmer's ability to crack both Hotmail and Passport by cross-site scripting, thus allowing anyone to gain access to Passport identification and credit card data with a single line of code;
• Code posted on the Internet, enabling other people to read the e-mail of Hotmail users;
• A programmer's reported ability to access Microsoft's corporate network over the course of six days by way of a hole in Windows 2000;
• Infection of the Code Red Worm through Microsoft's Hotmail servers;
• Infection of the NIMDA virus, which is propagated through Microsoft's Internet Information Server, on about 1.3 computers;
• Ability to view Microsoft customers' names, addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers and purchase histories as a result of an error on the company's customer support Web site;
• Internet display of user names and passwords in plain text through an error on Microsoft's Certified Partners page.
REQUESTED RELIEF
After detailing these alleged security lapses, the groups made specific requests for relief in their demand, including:
• An investigation into Microsoft's collection practices through Passport and associated services;
• An order requiring Microsoft to revise its XP registration procedures to make sure that purchasers of XP are clearly informed that they do not need to register for Passport to gain access to the Internet;
• Absent explicit consent, an order requiring Microsoft to block the sharing of personal information among Microsoft areas provided by a user under the Passport registration procedures;
• An order mandating that Microsoft use techniques for anonymity and pseudo-anonymity that would allow XP users to access Microsoft Web sites without disclosing their actual identities;
• An order requiring Microsoft to use techniques that allow XP users to easily integrate services provided by non-Microsoft companies for online payment and other electronic commerce activities;
• Commencement of an investigation to ascertain whether Passport complies with the requirements of the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act;
• And lastly, that Microsoft be required to disgorge any personal information collected "fraudulently and deceptively" through XP and Passport.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
The consumer groups certainly raise issues worthy of consideration by the FTC. However, because of the current focus on anti-terrorism efforts, it is possible that the issues raised will not get the visibility and response that they would have otherwise.</font color=blue>
Glenn, for what it's worth, I'm using Win2k at home, work, and laptop, and it's just fine. XP looks pretty, but these certainly are interesting concerns.
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
<font color=red>The groups complaining about XP and Passport are serious players. They include: Center for Digital Democracy, Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, Consumers Union, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Media Access Project, Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, Center for Media Education, Consumer Action, Electronic Privacy Information Center, Junkbusters Corp., NetAction and U.S. PIRG.</font color=red>
Geeezzz.... waaa-waaa-waaa. That's all these groups ever do!!
One of the neat things about using XP and the .NET passport service is that you do not have to use them.
Hello... quit yer bitchin'!! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
None of this is directed towards this thread's posters. Its against the list of miscreants I've snipped and posted and yes, red is the appropriate color. Yes, they're serious players who have also played into the hands of our friend *****. PGP is his one of his primary tools. And there's literally nothing we can't do about it. Now just think that one over for awhile. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif
They want it both ways. Never have been able to figure that one out. At what price for freedom..... food for thought.
Terry
P.S. - just wanted to something else, most terrorist and social anarchists promote the use of PGP and other security measures to HIDE information. And this is under the auspices of personal privacy. JUST MY $1.00 - price just went up /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by TerryinMD on 11/06/01 09:20 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
Geeezzz.... waaa-waaa-waaa. That's all these groups ever do!!
One of the neat things about using XP and the .NET passport service is that you do not have to use them.
Hello... quit yer bitchin'!! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
None of this is directed towards this thread's posters. Its against the list of miscreants I've snipped and posted and yes, red is the appropriate color. Yes, they're serious players who have also played into the hands of our friend *****. PGP is his one of his primary tools. And there's literally nothing we can't do about it. Now just think that one over for awhile. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif
They want it both ways. Never have been able to figure that one out. At what price for freedom..... food for thought.
Terry
P.S. - just wanted to something else, most terrorist and social anarchists promote the use of PGP and other security measures to HIDE information. And this is under the auspices of personal privacy. JUST MY $1.00 - price just went up /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by TerryinMD on 11/06/01 09:20 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
Anonymous Poster
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Huckflynn.
I resent your use of the word zealot...
I'm very controlled, I just giggle quietly to myself when Windows friends start arguing with each other on how to do something on their machines.
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
del
I resent your use of the word zealot...
I'm very controlled, I just giggle quietly to myself when Windows friends start arguing with each other on how to do something on their machines.
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
del
Anonymous Poster
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Encryption is easy to do. Privacy advocates are concerned with the legality of using encryption. Surely you don't think bin Laden would have acted differently if US laws were different?
As for privacy, many conservatives and liberals alike see privacy as a crucial issue of our day -- as a society we're going to have to come up with a very delicate balance between life sucking and criminals having too much leeway. But you did say "at what price freedom" so maybe I am misunderstanding you.
It WOULD be exteremely unfortunate to trust Passport and then have your name, SSN, credit card numbers, medical history, etc stolen. There has already been one security hole... Why are you upset that these groups try to warn consumers about this?
As for privacy, many conservatives and liberals alike see privacy as a crucial issue of our day -- as a society we're going to have to come up with a very delicate balance between life sucking and criminals having too much leeway. But you did say "at what price freedom" so maybe I am misunderstanding you.
It WOULD be exteremely unfortunate to trust Passport and then have your name, SSN, credit card numbers, medical history, etc stolen. There has already been one security hole... Why are you upset that these groups try to warn consumers about this?
