Wi-Fi??????

[jdbower]

Some corrections here:

1. It is stealing. You're using your neighbor's bandwidth and, in some respects, stealing their identity (if you don't believe me make some "anonymous" threats against a public figure and note that they go to your neighbor's house before they pull his router logs and track you down). Whether someone's been arrested for this is irrelevant, your moral decisions should not be based on punishment but based on the right thing to do. I would try to identify where the signal is coming from and let them know it's open, they probably don't realize it and or that it's a security risk - think of this like telling your neighbor they shouldn't leave their front door open when they go out shopping. If it ends up being a local coffee shop, then while using it may not be illegal it's still like walking in, using their bathroom, and taking their sugar packets without buying anything. We need to separate out what's "legal" with what's "moral" and I find theft of service hard to justify morally.

2. While no wi-fi is 100% secure you should always use the best protection your router and laptop can support - there's just no reason not to. It's trivial to spoof a MAC address so that doesn't buy you any protection (check out your router config, most of them allow you to change the MAC right there and those Linux boot CDs give you the same option).

3. Even though any security can be broken, most of the time yours will not. If you're not an explicit target (and, let's face it, probably no one on TBN is important enough to be a directed target) most people would much rather go to a city or a wealthy suburb to find an open network than to spend the effort parked on a rural road trying to steal a farmer's bank information. Remember, the typical person doesn't have any idea that you've dropped $100k on a tractor.

4. ISPs can not read your passwords without decrypting them first, just like any hacker (but corporations are easier to trace and have much deeper pockets for fines). They also have no access to your hard drive nor can they see most of what your doing. As far as your surfing habits are concerned, if you're worried about them noticing that then should you really be going to those websites on your neighbor's computer? Doesn't seem to neighborly to me...

In summary, a wifi-enabled router can be had for <$50, I'd buy one of your own, configuring it to WPA2 security and avoid the whole moral dilemma of whether it's OK to use something your neighbor is paying for.

 

[/pine]

It's trivial to spoof a MAC address so that doesn't buy you any protection

since MAC addresses are hard coded into hardware devices...if you have the right software a masked address can easily be exposed...

check out your router config, most of them allow you to change the MAC right there

this allows you to set "allowed" MAC addresses...if a particular computer's NIC MAC address does not match that of the "allowed" address the router will not assign an IP

MAC address are embedded into a chip they cannot be changed/ overwritten

some cracking software will report bogus MAC addresses but they cannot be changed

 

[Mark_in_NH]

My wireless network is unsecured, my computers whowever are as protected as they can possibly get. If somebody wants to and is able to connect to my network and access the internet, more power to them. The same goes for their network. If they don't want unauthorized access then they need to secure their network. Period !!!!!
If your neighbors floodlight lights up your backyard so you can see to barbeque, are you guilty of stealing his electricity ? I don't think so Tim !!
If your neighbors Satilite radio is turned up loud enough for you to hear, are you stealing satelite service from him ? I don't think so Tim !!
If the neighbors wife mows the front lawn naked for the world to see, are you guilty of voyerism ? I don't think so Tim !!
Please, get real !! only the **** rententive are going to consider this stealing.
If you using the signal to purposly do something deceitful, then we enter another area of discussion.

 

[jdbower]

since MAC addresses are hard coded into hardware devices...if you have the right software a masked address can easily be exposed...

I don't believe that to be the case (either you can override the MAC address at the driver layer or you can't, there's only one field in the Ethernet header for source MAC), but even if true it's a safe bet this software isn't built into a home wifi router. If you want to try it yourself in Windows this is the first Google hit.

 

[/pine]

I don't believe that to be the case

just becaue you don't believe something doe not make it so...

again...MAC addresses are hard coded into the chip on any NIC or wireless Ethernet adapter they can't be changed period...

yes they can be masked/spoofed but in the same respect a masked or spoofed address CAN be detected...not necessarily by cheap residential routers but they can be detected...

 

[jdbower]

this allows you to set "allowed" MAC addresses...if a particular computer's NIC MAC address does not match that of the "allowed" address the router will not assign an IP

You're looking at the wrong spot, below is a picture of where you can set the WAN MAC address on a NetGear router. The reason they allow this is because some ISPs require MAC authentication so you need to glom the address of one of your PCs.

The default MAC is encoded into hardware, but you can override this. You need to be able to do this so you can send broadcast packets for things like ARP requests. You'll just have to trust me on this one, I've built Ethernet networking equipment.

Imageshack - macchange - Uploaded by jdbower

 

[/pine]

The default MAC is encoded into hardware, but you can override this.

Like I said...they can be masked or spoofed but they can't be changed (only by changing the NIC...routers are not pertinent in identifying individual nodes (computers)
the address in a residential router is insignificant...whenever the federal gov. makes a case against a computer user the ONLY proof they can use is the MAC address...it is like a finger print

I too work in the industry as a network admin.

 

[jdbower]

Could you provide a link to the MAC spoof detection software? All I was able to find are a slew of posts that say it can't be done and a few whitepapers with heuristics, mostly requiring that both computers be on at the same time. If you have access to a computer you can tell what the given MAC address is, but if you're a network admin you can't tell whether the MAC is genuine without physical access. If you can describe the technical mechanism through which this works I'd gladly eat my words, but until then it's pretty easy to spoof a MAC via the driver and there's no remote way to determining it's faked. However, since even you've said that a residential router can't detect the spoof it's mostly a moot point since it's not a viable security mechanism for the home users here - it's just a good added precaution in addition to WPA2.

 

[/pine]

since you seem to be relying on search engines for your information I suggest you query something like "anomalybased intrusion detection" or just "detecting spoofed MAC addresses"

 

[jdbower]

So I take it you're not aware of any reliable software to do this either. If you want a real-world data point the reason this is a hotbutton to me is our old incompetent IT guy only used MAC authentication (no WEP/WPA, 802.1X or anything like that) so when he was out and one of our engineers got a new laptop all he did was steal the MAC of our CTO for the day since he was leaving for an off-campus meeting. He got the MAC with a simple packet sniffer and he knew the CTO's IP from the DNS entry. Granted, this was an "authorized" intrusion, but there's no reason it couldn't have been a guy at the Panera next door.

 

[/pine]

a moot point since it's not a viable security mechanism for the home users

something the "home use" can easily use is a program called "SNORT" (Google it)

Snort is fully configurable via the snort.conf file generally located in the /etc folder. To see what kind of wireless threats this IDS can detect, it is best to just review the various options of this file. The following breaks down the main detection categories.

Rouge AP: Detects any access point that is not designated in it the list of authorized devices.
AntiStumbler: Detects the use of a NetStumbler like program by detecting numerous probes/responses that these programs generate.
DeauthFlood: Detects attempts to kick users offline via deauthentication packets.
AuthFlood: Detects attempts to kick an access point offline via an authentication packet flood.
MAC Spoof: Detects attempts by an attacker to spoof their MAC address for unauthorized access to a wireless network.

Like I pointed out earlier in the thread...most cracking software uses a script that disconnects existing connections so a second script can detect the credentials of legitmate users...monitoring the interuptions is the key to preventing intrusions...

 

[jdbower]

something the "home use" can easily use is a program called "SNORT" (Google it)

You're confusing "home user" with "what an IT guy can do at home". A home user is running Windows or MacOS and doesn't want to be concerned about monitoring their network - it's hard enough to get them to install AV and firewall software. Using a simplistic security mechanism and then advanced monitoring heuristics to detect the rare cases when someone may be hacking a network is kind of like installing security cameras all over your house but then putting a big sign on the front yard that says "on vacation for two weeks". It's a much better solution for the general public to enable the best security their router/NIC supports because they don't have the skills, inclination, or time to actively monitor their network. Now if they do want to monitor in addition to high end security that's even better, but you can't expect many people here to install Snort or Ethereal (or WireShark or whatever they call it these days).

 

[/pine]

Sorry but I am not the one that seems to be confused...go back and re-read the thread...and the questions you posed based on what I posted...

 

[MossRoad]

Caution, geek fight in progress!
Hey, at least you guys are interested in why stuff works!

As far as stealing internet access goes, I'm pretty sure there have been some cases of prosecution. I recall one where a homeowner kept seeing a car parked in front of his house each morning with some guy using a laptop in it. The guy was confronted by police and charged with stealing the homeowner's internet access.

 

[MossRoad]

Aha! I found an article from Information Week back in 2005. It is a very good article which goes over the moral and legal aspects of using open networks and mentions the case I spoke of earlier where someone was arrested outside someone else's home using their internet unauthorized. Here is a link to it. The Privacy Lawyer: Wireless Freeloaders Are Breaking The Law -- Wireless Network Theft

Here's another case.
Tampa Arrest Shines Light On Wireless Internet Theft Issues

And another.
Man arrested over wireless 'piggybacking'

And another.
bit-tech.net | Lincolnshire boy arrested over WiFi theft

And another.
Man arrested for abusing wireless Internet access - TechSpot News

So, I guess some people have been arrested for this practice. Every expert uses the analogy that a wireless access point is like a door to your house. Even if you leave your door unlocked, no one, NO ONE, has the right to come inside without your permission(some life and death situations may allow this... like they need to call an ambulance or police from your phone or google the nearest hospital from your wireless network).

 

[Mark_in_NH]

I read through the articles that MossRoad linked to and I certainly can't argue with what I read. So it clearly appears that we need to watch out for the internet police. I still think and believe that if a person doesn't want somebody accessing their wireless network then they need to secure it.
I walked past my neighbors yard this past spring and inhaled the aroma from his Lilac trees, I surely must be guilty of something for commiting such a heinous act.

 

[scott_vt]

I walked past my neighbors yard this past spring and inhaled the aroma from his Lilac trees, I surely must be guilty of something for commiting such a heinous act.

Good Mornin Mark,
I love the smell of lilacs also, so my wife planted some in our yard too !

My son graduated with a degree in computer science from Univ of RI, sure wish I had him here this mornin, so he could explain what /Pine and jdbower were talkin about this mornin !

 

[drssg]

My wireless network is unsecured, my computers whowever are as protected as they can possibly get. If somebody wants to and is able to connect to my network and access the internet, more power to them.

There are at least two scenarios you may wish to consider:

1. If someone uses your WIFI connection to attempt to solicit children, the cops will come to you.
2. It doesn't matter how much security is ON your computer, if your WIFI signal is not encrypted, then your communication to your router can be intercepted.

 

[drssg]

If you want to remedy this...you can buy a supported router on e-bay etc and change out the firmware...here is a link to everything you need to turn a cheap wireless router into powerhouse...

generally the transmitting power of the average wireless router is 28mW...with this hack you can pump it all the way up to 251mW

Boost your wireless signal

That is an interesting article, but I would be worried about creating a fire hazard. My router gets fairly warm in its supported configuration. I'm thinking there is a good reason why the power is not substantially higher.

 

[/pine]

So, I guess some people have been arrested for this practice

sure there have been a few arrests but in the US you will have to do some real looking before you find any convictions...the reason being...unless a signal is protected with some sort of encryption there is no way to prove the signal is not an open "public" network i.e., free to the public...

Some wireless card software will automatically connect to the strongest signal available...in some neighborhoods there could be a dozen or more available signals and if a user does not monitor their connecting software they will not even know what signal they are connecting to...

the gist of the later part of the thread is that even if a signal is protected it can be cracked and accessed...

Prudent wireless users protect their signals...but what is often overlooked is the use of logs...many wireless router users fail to activate the logging feature of their router firmware... if someone is tapping into your network the logs wil give you hard copy evidence...