Buying Advice Why do I keep 'what if-ing'?

[crank73]

Good day everyone,

Here we go again. Another one of us seeking advice from the 'experts'. I have been trying to get smart on tractors over the last few weeks. I've been living on a 10 acre acreage with a couple of horses and a barn for the last 10 years. I've been using a quad and blade in the winter to move snow around and a snow blower when it needed to be moved. I've used a lawn tractor to mow my 2 acre lawn and the other 8 or so acres are for my horses.

I've decided that it's time to step up and make life a little easier (and more fun) and buy a little tractor. I am ready to buy and I am looking at the Kioti brand and my thoughts keep coming back to the CK20. My problem is that I keep finding reasons that make me think that the CS2410 would be better which quickly change to thinking the CK30 would be better. As you can see I'm all over the shop with what to get. This is mostly due to the fact that I have never sat on a tractor or even watched what a tractor can do. I did drive to a dealership last week and putted around the parking lot on a -20, but I just can't picture how much work can be done with a tractor and equate that work to the size of the tractor.

To me, i think the physical size of the CK20 is perfect, my only worry is the PTO HP. I plan to do alot of Snow blowing in the winter and when I compare the PTO HP of the CK20 to the CS2410, it makes me think that the CS would be better. Is the 16 PTO HP of the CK20 adequate to power a 60' Snowblower without experiencing 'bog downs' due to loss of power? Same question reference a rototiller? I like the CK20 over the CS2410 due to its physical size, its weight, and its loader specs. I would use the loader to move pallets with 'stuff' on it as well as trees, and I'm sure I would want to do work that I don't even know is possible. I'm just worried that the 22 HP (16 HP PTO) will make me regret buying the CK20. I know that people are saying that the HST has a hard time going up hills in High, but my property is flat. The fact people are saying that makes me wonder if the CK20 is too heavy for its 22 HP engine.

I'm not against getting the 30, it is just physically a bit to big for my storage setup (future implements in mind as well) and 2-3000 dollars more.

Anyways, any help (or confirmation or reassurance) that the ck20 has adequate PTO HP for some of my intended use (3ph SnowBlower, tiller) because I have been what-if-ing this for the last week going round and round in my head hoping I make the right purchase.

Thanks in advance.

 

[murphy1244]

The thinking goes here is what ever size you choose, jump one size up.

 

[k0ua]

I have never owned a CK 20 or 30 for that matter, but so many guys come on here and lament that they wish they had bought "the bigger one". They always get it home and use it for a while and wish for more. The running joke is that "tractors shrink when you get them home".. We have heard it countless times.. The last 4 years I have had 3 tractors, I went bigger and more powerful each time.. present is a DK35se. I mostly move rock and materiel's with the Front End Loader, and do a little mowing and grading, but it is brawny power I am looking for.. I have seen the time occasionaly when I wanted a smaller tractor in near the wife's flower beds, spreading mulch.. but not very often. Most of the time. I wish I had a bigger tractor yet.. I have 7 acres mostly wooded and can operate a tractor on maybe 3 or 4 and a DK35se.. a much larger tractor than anything you have mentioned. Of course small tractors have some virtues too, More nimble to get around between obstacles. is the biggest advantage, of course cost is important too Hopefully others can soon comment about the uses you mentioned. Be sure to get a Hydro-stat with snow blowing, as I have heard you need really good control of ground-speed with snow blowing and tilling. I sure enjoy my hydro on my larger tractor for FEL work. Not that I haven't owned and used Gear tractors, because I sure have, but I prefer a hydro hands down for most tasks. Maybe not plowing or mowing in an open field with only turning once in a while. But anything that requires speed and directional changes.. its Hydro for me. Good Luck on your hunt.

James K0UA

 

[jeff9366]

Collect a Kioti brochure for each of the models you are interested in. Then create an Excel spreadsheet and enter the specs for the models. Ponder the entries.

My local Kubota dealer is reliable AND CLOSE. The Deere distributor in town may be equally reliable, but Kubota service and advice has been so good I only think "KUBOTA". If you feel "good" about the Kioti dealer and he is CLOSE, put your questions to him.

You will not notice 2-5 horsepower increments. It takes a 50% horsepower increase to make difference you will feel.

Use the T-B-N SEARCH function to research each Kioti model you have interest in.

In terms of general T-B-N information a 25hp/4-WD [Kioti~Kubota~Deere~Yanmar~etc.] are going to produce the same.

Follow the two KIOTI Forums. We all second guess ourselves, with every tractor and every implement.


SORRY I CAN'T REPRODUCE FOLLOWING EXCEL SPREADSHEET IN SPREADSHEET FORMAT:

GRAND GRAND GRAND GRAND
B3300SU L3540 L3200 L3800 L4600 L3240 L3540 L3940
Engine Cylinders 4 3 4 4 4 3 3 4
Engine Gross HP 33 37 31.9 37.4 46.3 34 37 40.5
PTO HP 25 28 26.7 31.5 36.8 25 28 31.5

Overall Width - R4 57.9 59.8 55.1 55.1 62.4 59.8 59.8 66.5
Length 99.2 115.0 106.3 106.3 117.9 115.0 115.0 121.5
Ground Clearance - R4 15.6 14.0 13.4 13.4 15.2 14.0 14.0 14.6
Weight 1929 3395 2623 2668 3197 3395 3395 3627
Loader LA504 LA724 LA524 LA524 LA764 LA724 LA724 LA724
Loader Lift - minimum 730 1415 1182 1182 1726 1415 1415 1415
LA514 LA514
1021 1021
Bucket Width 54 72 72 72 72

Position Control no yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
Draft Control no opt no no no opt opt opt

$ $19,000 $28,960 $22,110 $24,000 $30,646 $28,690 $28,960 $31,632

Price/Weight $9.85 $8.53 $8.43 $9.00 $9.59 $8.45 $8.53 $8.72

HD Round Bucket - 66"?
Three Remotes Rear
R4 Industrial Tires
Height w/ROPS Folded 69 77.5 77.5 77.5
SSQA?

 

[dave1949]

A general rule of thumb for PTO hp and snowblowers is 5 hp per foot of width. 16 PTO hp sounds too low for a 60" blower. You want something closer to 25 hp for that size. A 5' blower is a nice size because two passes gives you 9-10 clear feet of driveway.

 

[Wagtail]

Great advice (as always) so far. I was in the same boat as you 5 months ago and TBN helped a lot.

I thought that the JD 1026R would suit my needs. I discussed this with a neighbour, then started looking at the 2000 & 3000 series JDs due to the unforseen (to me) power/jobs capabilities. I then took my neighbour with me to the JD dealership (it seems that 'everone knows everyone else' here in Tassie). Although I did all of the dealing with the salesman, it was nice having a Mate 'nodding' or shaking his head out of the corner of my eye.

We settled on my 4105... less "pretties", more grunt and less $s than a top 3000 series.

So, if you can, bring a knowledgable neighbour with you. Oh, and make sure he (or she) gets a free hat in the deal!

 

[jenkinsph]

Great advice (as always) so far. I was in the same boat as you 5 months ago and TBN helped a lot.

I thought that the JD 1026R would suit my needs. I discussed this with a neighbour, then started looking at the 2000 & 3000 series JDs due to the unforseen (to me) power/jobs capabilities. I then took my neighbour with me to the JD dealership (it seems that 'everone knows everyone else' here in Tassie). Although I did all of the dealing with the salesman, it was nice having a Mate 'nodding' or shaking his head out of the corner of my eye.

We settled on my 4105... less "pretties", more grunt and less $s than a top 3000 series.

So, if you can, bring a knowledgable neighbour with you. Oh, and make sure he (or she) gets a free hat in the deal!

I think a 4105 or DK40 with hst would be a better size for 10 acres, if you go too small you won't be able to get enough done. Might consider whether being able to handle large bales will save you some money too.

 

[scaredychicken]

welcome to the TBN forum.

not sure if it is a factor in your considerations, ck20 is a discontinued model (2003 - 07 yrs); ck30 is a current model (since 2004 ->) and a bit more horsepower. the physical size may be no difference.

where in Alberta are you ? would the tractor need the cab option (I spent a few yrs in Edmonton, winters were a big adjustment) ? cabs would be extra size and expense and may not be available in all models considered. I think the other consideration is the proximity of a good tractor dealership. all the best with the tractor hunt.

see personal message also.

 

[crank73]

Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't start thinking about tractors until 2 weeks ago. At that point I was thinking sub compacts like MF GC2300 or Kioti CS2410 but after reading everyone suggesting to always pick your tractor then go one bigger, that's when I started looking at the CK20.

I'm wondering though, what's considered a bigger tractor, the CK20 (Weight) or CS2410 (HP). I'm sure you will all say the CK20 for its weight and loader specs. Maybe I'll consider a narrower snowblower if I go with the CK20.

By the way, what does T-B-N search mean?

 

[JJZ 109]

By the way, what does T-B-N search mean?

TBN is this website (TractorByNet). At the top of each page you'll see an option for "search". Click it, then you can type what you like in that field to search the site for any information pertinent to your subject. Good luck in your tractor hunt!

 

[k0ua]

By the way, what does T-B-N search mean?

OK you are on TBN (tractorbynet) so we want to search past posts on TBN to find what has been posted in years past about a subject. So go to the top of this page and click on the little magnifying glass labeled "search" and it will take you to a page where you can enter keywords and other parameters to narrow or refine your search to hopefully find past posts about a subject you are interested in.

James K0UA

 

[k0ua]

I need to learn to organize my thoughts and type faster

 

[SARG]

Bigger is better. I bought a 28 hp T1030 NH .......... Seems like it's the same with motorcycles.. motorhomes and tractors...... you always wish you'd gotten the next bigger.

I now wouldn't buy another with less than 40 hp.

 

[Piston]

I would also suggest a larger tractor than the CK30, however, there are a few (very few) people that really enjoy using the smallest tractor they can for the job. You may be one of those?

Regarding searching this forum (or anything for that matter) click on the link in my "signature" below that says how to search TBN.

 

[hawkeye08]

Since you are new to tractors, my advice is not to go too big. The bigger the tractor, the more expensive the tractor and the attachments are. A spreadsheet is nice, but however you do it, start to make notes about what you want. Determine if there are "showstopper requirements", for some this might be a cab, for others it might be HST or gears. You only have 10 acres so you don't need a big tractor. Get one that is easy to maneuver. If you are wanting to blow snow, plow snow and mow lawn, then the lawn mowing will point you to a smaller tractor. You would be better off getting a good zero turn mower for the lawn and the right size tractor for the other tasks, than trying to compromise for everything.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

I bought a Bobcat CT230, with is the same tractor as the Kioti CK30. Everything on the CT225, CT230, and CT235 is identical to the CK25, CK30, and CK35, except for the engine hp; with some minor cosmetic differences.

It was a combination of immediate need, funding and delivery time compromise; otherwise I might have waited a few months and bought the 35hp one. That said, there hasn't been any jobs that I couldn't do with 30 hp that I needed to have 35 instead.

 

[Piston]

I recommend listing your needs, determining what implements you'll need to accomplish those tasks, and then matching the tractor to whatever size/type implements you will need to run. Remember that the tractor is just an engine that drives the implements, a tractor by itself is virtually useless.

Most people decide what tractor to buy, and then try to figure out what implements they can use with it, and are restricted to certain size (this goes both ways, just as a tractor can be too small to run implements you want, it can also be too big, to the point where your implements won't cover your tire tracks).

The better way to decide on a tractor, is to list the size and type implements you need, then match the tractor to those implements, this is also a good way to weed out many tractors, it makes the "decision" much easier when your not faced with 30 different models in all sorts of different size ranges.

If you don't know what implements you need, you can start determining that with our help, just list what jobs you will want to do now, as well as jobs you can see yourself doing 2 or 3 years from now. We can point you in the right direction. :thumbsup:

 

[DavesTractor]

Buy a tractor for which the size will do your most important and frequent tasks without straining it. For the odd task that comes up occasionally, you can either rent or just struggle a little with the tractor you own. Snow blowing and tilling take a certain amount of PTO power and there is no way around it. Figure the size of blower and/or tiller you want and then do some figuring. Likewise on the loader. But with a loader you can often break down the size of the job and just make more trips. Works well for gravel and dirt and such, but if you regularly need to unload a 1500 lb pallet, then you have a minimum in that regard. Keep in mind that loads on pallets put the load center way out further than a bucket of stuff, so de-rate your loader capacity a bit when figuring palletized loads.

I'm a Mahindra dealer. We used to sell a 2015 model. It was heavy for it's size and just a really nice unit, similar to the CK20. If a customer came in and needed a stout tractor with good lift capacity and pulling power, that did the job. If he then said he wanted to run a large'ish mower or tiller or blower, we knew we had to go up in HP. For your needs, I think a medium frame (vague term I know) compact such as an "L" series Kubota or a 3016 size Mahindra or the equivalent Kioti/Bobcat would suit you well.

The spreadsheet idea? Well, I do that sometimes, but you can get "sucked into the vortex" as we like to say, and end up splitting hairs about a small difference in hydraulic flow, turning radius, ground clearance, etc. The key is to just pay attention to the things that matter for your application. 7.2 vs 7.5 gpm on a pump really doesn't matter to most folks. Nor does 8.3 vs 7.9 inches or ground clearance. Narrow the search to a few quality tractors that will do the job, then further narrow by available quality dealers, then go sit on the tractors and make sure your knees don't bump the steering wheel or the loader control isn't in a bad spot for your bad right arm or whatever. Drive it also, some HST tractors are quiet, some have loud pumps, some are smoother than others.

I bet whatever you get you will love, as long as you do not short yourself on PTO HP for your snow blower.

 

[RoMad]

I also have 10 acres and I had a ck20. I bought it used and put 750 hours on it in three years. I used it to clean up my second 5 acres of brush, old fence, and a bunch of other junk. I used it to hold up one end of an aluminum scaffold plank while I worked on buildings and also to clean out my pig pen and barn stalls with the front end loader. For the work in the barn and the pig pens it was fantastic. It got in the tight places easily and the loader was very strong for the size tractor. As a test one day I wrapped a come-a-long chain around a round bale of hay and picked it up with the loader, but only about a foot off the ground. I dug 6 foot deep burn pits and then covered them back up with the loader and box blade when I finished with them.
The areas it was lacking was in using my 5' bush hog. It ran it okay but it was a load on it. It really would have been better with more HP for that application. The other was the lack of enough gears. It had a high range, a low range and three forward speeds and one in reverse. There were times when the high range was too high and the low too low.
Recently I found an L2900 Kubota and bought it. For a while I had both tractors and it was nice to be able to compare them. At first the L2900 seemed very big and hard to manuever around when picking things up from the back of a truck and other delicate work. After a very short while I got used to it and now it just seems normal.
It does take up more room in the barn and is a bit of a squeeze getting into the same parking space I made for the ck20.
I really enjoyed the ck20 and did a lot of work with it, but all in all the L2900 is much nicer to work with overall.
My advice would be to buy your first tractor used, but buy something in the 30HP range.
If you shop around and get a good used tractor you will not take a financial beating when you figure out what you want in your next tractor.

 

[3930dave]

TBN is this website (TractorByNet). At the top of each page you'll see an option for "search". Click it, then you can type what you like in that field to search the site for any information pertinent to your subject. Good luck in your tractor hunt!

Crank - if you are still in heavy research mode, and are trying to find things here on Tractor By Net, then look up that Google command for searching a specific site only. It was available on Google a long time ago.... with my lousy memory I can never remember the syntax of the command.

The Search on this site works, in a fashion, but there are bettter tools to use esp. if you are in a hurry.

Rgds, D.